Phantom 42. Should we buy this boat?

[Guest]

We've done the sea trial and the boat's been surveyed. It's a really good price and the specification we want. But there were some worrying problems about the boat. Is it too good to be true or is it still a bargain?

Four years old and 120 hours, little used and well looked after. Well we weren't sure that it had been as well looked after as it might have been but, the first thing the surveyor spotted was that the Hull Identification Number on the back of the boat had been largely scored off. It was suggested that there might have been a knock but it seemed strange that this tiny spot was the only place on the back of the boat to be damaged! The owner (from new) didn't know where the other internal HIN was but had all the correct papers.

There were a number of other minor damages, quite probably from tight berthing (we're in Mallorca here) but the most worrying were some water leaks. The worst was in the starboard corner of the main cabin and it was suggested that the windscreen for the lower helm above needed resealing. The owner hadn't had this done although the water had started to stain the woodwork. There was another leak in the forward corner of the galley. Although further back than the first leak, I suppose it could have come from the other side of the windscreen. The surveyor suggested that the windscreens would need to be taken out completely, everything cleaned up and the screens put back in with new sealer. The owner said it was a common problem on the 42.

After the sea trial, there was also a damp carpet around the opening in the floor outside the cabins.

Has anyone else any experience of similar problems? Should we walk away from this boat or invest in an other wise good bargain?

 

[byron]

Richard! That missing number would worry me sick. I have heard of peeps 'ringing' cars, I wonder if villains 'ring' boats too.
I would want some secure evidence of validity, maybe a call to the builders might scatter some light on the subject.

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[Guest]

Yes we were worried. But he's the first owner and had a certificate showing the HIN. I think it was the builder's certificate; certainly it wasn't a photocopy as it had an embossed seal. It was in my mind to ring the builder about it as I've got the hull production number.

 

[byron]

Peace of mind... contact the builder. As regards the leaks. Nigel Dempster once interviewed Tommy Sopwith and said to him "as one of the richest people in Britain, what is it that money can't buy" He replied "windows on my boat that don't leak"
That sums it up. Sooner or later all boats develop window leaks due to the flexing.

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[Guest]

the numbers and the water are worrisome. Question is, I suppose, how much?

Re water, who puts the windows right? We boshed through a right old pile of water in barry's 25footer, no water inside. How "bad" was the seatrial weather? How much to fix?

You seem fixed on the p42, great in manky nov med weather, but imagine it all HOT. You would be on a targa. Ok what about a 48? But you like the looky out bit ...yet you'll draw the blinds to keep cooler in summer ...but what the heck, a liked boat it seems.

We can't say "yeah" go on until you tellus a price. Three years old, sooooo £185k? tellus, oh go on. It does depend on price, PROVIDED that you are utterly and totally happy re those numbers.

 

[Guest]

Re: minor damages

what were these? for stern-to berthing, they might be right down at water level rear quarters, or up mid-fwd deck at either side.

In the med you'll do 100 hours plus or minus fifty per year. We rented the boat out for three weeks and it came back 52 hours older. So your 120 hrs is staggeringly tiny usage. I want the engine lickably clean, likewise carpets and interior.

 

[jfm]

Re: location of id plate

On our 1999 the hull id is stamped onto a metal plate that is set into the fibreglass panel that forms the "floor" of the wardrode in the Starboard cabin. The carpet is tightly fitted but you can lift it up at the corner with pliers then you should see the id plate. The builders should have records, there were only 200 or so made so if you compare the hull # with builders records of colour (the carpets, curtains, seats, vinyl panels are all separately speccable), hull colour, type of genny, etc you might get comfortable. But sounds dodgy.....

I have never heard of windscreen leaks. Ours is newer but 320 hours and definitely no leaks. Suggest you call Peters in Chichester, ask for the yard, and ask if windscreen leaks are common, they'll know, there's a particulary knowledgeable bloke and I've forgotten his name but when I remeber I'll post it. www.petersplc.com or maybe co.uk

The wet carpet in the panel by the cabin doors seems odd. Under this panel is a fairly deep bilge and the shower pump-out sump. You would have to go thru heavy sea to make bilge water sloosh up enough to wet the carpet. Sounds odd. Could it be leak from shower trays or were they not used?

Did your surveyor take an oil sample to measure engine wear/hours clocking? I have the lab reports on our 63Ps at 100 and 200 hours and cd fax them to you so you could compare readings

But so long as it's not stolen the probs seem very fixable. As matts said it depends on price - can you tell us how much?

 

[jfm]

Re: eat dinner off engines

Agree with matts. Our engines are 320 hours and lickably clean, and we have never cleaned them, so yours should be clinically sterile. If not, suspect hours wound back. Poss get oil sample as said above

 

[jfm]

Re: Check log

One more thing. Whack the tridata buttons and see the total miles logged. This is not resettable to zero by user (though hardened crims presumable can hack it, but they may not have bothered). The miles should tally with 120 hours, so I wd guess 1600miles or thereabouts. The GPS might also record total distance, though often switched off in mallorca.

What top speed did you get (off GPS) in the trials?

 

[Guest]

Re: minor damages

The bit that sticks out most at the sides of a boat. Is that called 'the strake' or something like that? Well the worst was about a quarter of the way from front on port side. You could actually see daylight between that strip and the boat itself. Surveyor pointed it out. We hadn't noticed; appeared owner hadn't noticed either. On the opposite side, the same 'strake'(?) had a small dent. Didn't seem much to me but surveyor was more concerned. A small dent in this strake thing very close to stern starboard side. Owner suggested is was other Mallorcan boats when mooring (i.e. not him!). I see that these are exactly where you said. So no probs?

Owner says he uses boat 5-6 weeks a year. Engines looked very clean to me. Lickable? Well better than the crockery in the (edited by RC) fancy hotel at Soton. Carpets and Interior? All consistent with 120 hours. Generator had done 20 hours and couldn't be started. Surveyor says lack of use.

 

[Guest]

Re: location of id plate

Surveyor suggested look at bottom of wardrobes. Starboard cabin wardrobe carpet lifted to show flywood floor. Port cabin wardrobe carpet stuck down and couldn't be lifted. I'll check with builders.

Sea trial was flat calm water. The problem area of carpet was quite dry before sea trial. The surveyor had lifted the floor panel whilst on the hard: there was a very small amount of water in the bilge. After the sea trial there was a small strip of wet (not damp) carpet perhaps one inch wide along perhaps four inches of the floor next to this panel and a slightly smaller wet patch on the other side of it. Shower trays were not tested whilst we were there. As Mallorcan/Spanish timings are different to UK timings (I don't mean time), the 10.00 launch happened at 11.15 and we had to leave at 12.00 because Stellios had promised he would not wait to fly us back. We left the Surveyor to continue his work. He said he'd ring me Tuesday.

 

[adarcy]

Well it all depends on the price.
Almost anything is fixable if you have enough money (left in the budget)
Seriously though, I know nothing about P42s but
- did the owner show bills for work done on it ? in Mallorca
- the surveyor could check that the boat was "known" in the workshops/marina
- is the surveyor insured adequately. After all, if you buy it and allow for the costs you already know eg genny, windows and then God forbid the hull crack open it's the surveyor you are going to be gunning for not the previous owner.

As I keep hearing myself say or seeing myself type

Yer pays yer money........

Anthony

 

[Guest]

Re: location of id plate

The wet area can be caused by shower tray leakage. When the shower is used and boat is in her berth the tray leaks into the space below. Water is trapped there until the boat moves and the water runs back and escapes.

Good luck.

 

[Scubadoo]

Richard,

I would be very concerned about the HIN ID, the other problems can be fixed. Okay so the guy can convince you about the HIN ID by showing valid docs etc, remember you will have to go through the same thing when you sell it. Also all the documentation of proof of ownership could be fraud, criminals are very good at it these days, centainly when you are talking of 100 of thousands!

If the boat is cheap I would be even more suspicious, I think I would walk away on this one - Sorry Richard.

RM.

 

[Guest]

After reading this lot one thing no one has said is, to check the engine numbers with Volvo to see who they were supplied to, then match them hopefully to the hull no of the boat.

We were in Majorca for 2 years and believe me there are one or two bad. boys out there.

Paul js.

 

[Guest]

Re: strakey thing

it's either rubber or chromey metal, and has been "wiped" and can be fixed by patching in a new bit, I believe, under 500 quid for a decent job replacing a decent chunk, or possibly sod all with hammer and screwdriver.

Regarding the use, 5-6 weeks a year, makes 18 weeks in total. under 10 hours a week. So hes hardly been anywhere. Beleiveable, possibly, and maybe not worth turning back the clockss.


Soo...he's scared of it, and his wife (and maybe he ) would prefer a house or flat, I reckon. Confirm how serious you are (if you are) make very sure that they have your number, and offer 19% under asking price, then get off the phone, inviting them to get back.. Don't hang on waiting for the well um look...that's them thinking and you don't care.

BUT HAVE YOU GOT A BERTH FOR NEXT SEASON?

 

[Guest]

Phantom 42. Price & survey

So what's it worth?

Fairline Phnatom 42, 1997, (so four years old) one owner, 63Ps, 120 hours, 40K of extras including passerelle, generator, air con, radar, nav plotter, 9hp bowthruster, twin station autohelm, bimini, even a blue hull!

97s are advertised at £180 - £190K but with lower specs. So would you get excited at an asking price of £155K?

Our surveyor found faults mentioned in my other postings and his quick report received today says:

Both windscreens to be removed old sealer cleaned out and resealed.
Generator not working with water in the engine oil. Some original parts still there that would normally have been replaced during servicing.
Both main engines have small oil leaks, one has a small water leak.
Both cutlass bearings need replacing.
Bow thruster doesn't work from either helm.
Searchlight not fully functioning.
Engine room fire extinguishers don't work.
RPM meter defective
Horn not working
Other minor faults.
small hold in saloon floor (near steps to galley) filled with 3 - 4 inches of water and manuals a solid mass of soggy paper (how does water get there!).
With water leaks in main cabin, en-suite, galley, floor outside cabins, saloon floor, do all boats leak like this?

So what's it worth?

 

[Guest]

Re: Phantom 42. Price & survey

Don't know much about Fairlines - but with all that water everywhere, it doesn't sound like a well minded 4 year old boat to me (my 20 yr old Princess sounds more waterproof) - has it taken a ducking ? Re the surveyor - I'd say that if his survey points out potential problems that you choose to either ignore or gamble on, you'll have a hard job pinning the liability on him.

Furthermore there are also doubts regarding it's past ownership which really need to be resolved - you don't want to end up owning a stolen boat (who's to say it wouldn't be stolen again ???) - and the surveyor certainly wouldn't be liable here.

My advice would be to walk away (even run...) - there will be other boats for sale, especially if the economic downturn continues - and maybe peace of mind might be worth more than the few grand you are saving on a dodgy deal.

louis

 

[Guest]

Re: wild guesses at fixing

Both windscreens to be removed old sealer cleaned out and resealed >>£1000tops
Generator fixing: >> another £1000 tops
Both main engines have small oil leaks, one has a small water leak.> £1000 engine service worst case
Both cutlass bearings need replacing. >> lift, do em, £1000 ?
Bow thruster doesn't work from either helm.>>new switch, new prop, during lift £500
Searchlight not fully functioning. >>stuff this, they're rubbish.
Engine room fire extinguishers don't work. >>£300
RPM meter defective >>£200
Horn not working >>always rubbish new: get an air horn for real wakeywakey £8
Other minor faults.
small hold in saloon floor (near steps to galley) filled with 3 - 4 inches of water and manuals a solid mass of soggy paper (how does water get there!). > dunno. spilled teapot?
With water leaks in main cabin, en-suite, galley, floor outside cabins, saloon floor, do all boats leak like this? >>no, but they need attention when the leaks occur with tracing it and gungy mastic
And that rubbing strake thing remeber?

So, six grand tops should fix things, with a grand for contingency (eg genny, bowthruster, other stuff) Ship the boat to where you plan to keep it ,and get the work done there- cos you'll be a customer and v welcome.

Busted bowthruster and lack of use/practice squares with whack on sides. Busted generator squares with never going anywhere and staying on shore power, hence low hours. Lack of service squares with wife/him crap at fendering/driving, not liking it and hence selling. 150 don't sound bad. 140 even better! This is half new price...provided super-happy re provenance/numbers etc. Can he show insurance for boat from a while back - usually the same insurers, and can u speak to them?

 

[david_steward]

Re:Some checks...

This is a one owner boat so you should be able to get plenty of info from Fairline. You can certainly match up engine numbers with the hull number. Find out exactly where this other indet plate is from them. Try and trace whoever Fairline sold the boat to from the info they give you. If you have an imposter trying to sell the boat then this should become apparent. If it leads back to the person you are dealing with then that helps. If you are dealing through a Broker insist on meeting the owner. You need to see ORIGINAL vat invoice and builders cert. Mooring bills etc will also help identify where it has been kept and you can ask around there. Is the vessel Part 1 registered or not? If it is you can check any outstanding mortgages etc.

With regard to the problems with the boat, you need to get firm quotes from a local competant yard for all of the work to be done and factor it into your offer.

If you are at all worried about the bonafide credentials of the boat or its puported owner then back out. Don't be afraid to ask to see id. A passport would help, though these too can be forged.

Let us know how you get on.

Dave S