Phantom 42. Should we buy this boat?

[jfm]

Re: location of id plate

Bit worried about this. If I recall correctly the floor of the starboard cabin wardrobe is a GRP interanl moulding, so if you saw a "plywood floor" I would ask what the hell it was doing there. Worrying. Can you remove the plywood, I mean is it a bit of ply cut to size and stuffed in to hide the id plate?

£155 seems a fab asking price. Agree with matt that all little defects can be repaired for say £5-6000 so it's still cheap. I wouldn't even bother getting a quote from a yard

The water is a bit worrying but everything fixable I suppose. The compartment in the saloon floor at the top of the galley step is meant to house a bin. It is a fibreglass box so cannot leak from the bottom if undamaged, in which case water got in from the top.

 

[ArthurWood]

Four years old, 120 hours and cutless bearings need replacing? Too many unknowns for my liking. I'd walk away.

 

[jfm]

Smelling a rat now...... id plate

Richard, by coincidence the very knowlegeable chap at Peters yard called me back just now about a job he is doing for me. I asked him about id numbers. He assured me that on all phantom 42s the plate is in the wardrobe floor where I mentioned, and that the wardrobe floor is fibreglass not plywood, just as mentioned above. It's part of the large cabin internal moulding that forms the two bed bases and the cabin floor. I sed that you were sure the wardrobe floor was plywood, he said that sounds very suspicious like someone has removed or is covering up the id plate.

Just to be clear, the id plate is brass, about 2x3 inches. It is stamped with the numbers then set into the fibreglass as the moulding is made, it is not simply screwed on later. You would have to chobble away quite hard to remove it.

I think you need to be careful. Rat smell. As minimum why not ask yr surveyor to go to the boat and remove this plywood bit to see what's under it?

Do tell us wot happens, this is intriguing

 

[Guest]

Re: Peters...

Richard, you don't say if u have contacted the curent insurers, the manufacturers, or BA in Peters in Chichester who are sole UK and Spanish distribution Head Office.

 

[ChrisW]

Is the owner german or english ? German registration papers, especially from the Deutscher Motor Yacht Verband can be got so easily my little daughter cold do it. Also which Marina is the boat lying in, you can get a lot of info from the Marineros and other local berth holders. If you are suspicious about the origin of the vessel there is a stolen boat section on www.boat.de.

I will have answers to your e-mail re mooring by tomorrow

 

[Guest]

Re: location of id plate

My wife checked the starboard cabin wardrobe and I saw the plywood myself. We thought it looked a bit odd but couldn't get that up.

The whole of the saloon floor is covered with an 'over' carpet. None of that was wet. I'm pretty sure the 'under' carpet wasn't wet either so how there could be water in this compartment is a complete mystery.

It was whispered to me that there had been a dispute about (non) servicing by the people supposed to have done it and a new company had recently been instructed. I'm told they'd just been sending in invoices but not doing the work. I do wonder if someone has attempted some retaliatory measures when they got found out.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Richard, I've read thru' this thread and, personally, I would want to be 100% convinced about the history and ownership of this boat. As far as I know the P40/42 is a good secondhand seller so why is it £30k under the market price? Theoretically the owner could spend £6k and then ask £185k for it so why has'nt he?
You must check directly with Fairline that the HIN on the boat matches the engine numbers and speak to the supplying dealer given on the original invoice and check that they supplied the boat to the owner who is selling now. Then ask the owner to provide some form of identification. If anything does'nt add up or the owner baulks at this, walk away
Also, if there has been a dispute with a local yard, they may get wind of the sale and try to impound the boat
Basically, you have to satisfy yourself as to why this boat is cheap.

 

[Guest]

Re: Totally agree.

With those hours, it shoudl be somewhat MORE than 185, not less.

This incidentally how crook barlow clowes operated: he offered v sensible 12% whereas everyone else more honest offering 15%+ in offshore Gib. All rthe wrong people were attracted to his "reasonable" offer, whereas in fact he was the crook, not the others.

 

[Guest]

Phantom 42. Past service history

On the basis that I'd nothing to lose, I just rang the person who used to do the servicing. I wasn't told of any disputes at all (just shows you can't rely on hearsay). However, I was told it was a clean boat but there had been a repair to the generator. As mentioned previously, neither the owner nor the surveyor could get it working on the sea trial and the surveyor later told me that he found water in the engine oil. But the main thing he said was that there had been persistent water leaks ever since day one. I then remembered the owner describing the boat to me as 'like new' so perhaps he was accurately describing it as like this particular boat was when it was new! He said that they could put a hose over the boat and they'd be no leak but a shower of rain would start the leaks going again. Another time they'd be no problem. Over the years they'd been unable to sort it out. He even told of a leak that we hadn't found! I asked about removing and resealing the windscreens and he said that, whilst that had been suggested, it hadn't been done and he didn't think that was where the leaks came from.

So resealing the windscreens might or might not be the answer. That work could be done with no result. I'm beginning to think it might be like they used to say about BMC Friday afternoon cars and the problems could never be cured. Perhaps that's the conclusion the present owner came to and he's just decided to give up on it.

 

[jfm]

Priorities, priorities

Hang on Richard, a few leaks will not be your problem if you pay £150k and do not then own the boat, they'll be the real owner's problem. So what conclusion have you come to about the plywood panel where the serial number plate is meant to be? Did surveyor go back and have another look? Did you ask the servicing bod why it had been necessary to retrofit a new wardrobe floor?

 

[petem]

Reminds me of a Golf GTI I nearly bought a few years ago. Absolutely mint and about £500 less than the others. Mileage about 8k. Private sale. seller seemed dead genuine, lovely posh house in surrey. Said that it was his wife's car and they'd split up. Hence the log book showed a Kent address and a different surname. Checked HPI - all clean. Started to smell a rat when discovered the spare wheel and stereo was missing. Seller reckoned they'd got left at the valeters. Paid a deposit and said i'd collect a few days later subject to site of original purchase invoice. When I got home it occurred to me that there were a few cars parked up next to his house. SWMBO happened to remember the name of the VW dealer in Surrey from the number plates. Phoned the dealer to ask if this guy had bought the car.

VW dealer says 'yer just sold the lady a brand new GTI. The one your looking at was stolen and written off'. Stopped deposit cheque, phoned seller and told him to piss off.

Moral - If it's too good to be true, it usualy is.

By the way, guess what the line of business the seller was in - bleeding Computer Contract Recruitment. Shaft you whatever way they can!

 

[jfm]

A quick post from Pauline cd clear this up

Eek that was close Petem. Paying by cheque is fab, gives you a 48hr check-em-out period.

S' pose the Phantom could be genuine. Praps Pauline was a previous owner, and the reinforced plywood floor was an innocent upgrade to take the weight of the shoes ;-)

 

[Guest]

Re: Priorities, priorities

There's a number of unanswered questions about this boat and with the advice/comments that we've received, I'd love to go back and look some more but I don't think the owner would wear that (I wonder if he reads this bulletin board?!). I've only had the surveyor's quick, faxed report: I'm still waiting for the Spanish Post Office to forward the full report.

When the scored/damaged stern HIN was spotted by the surveyor who suggested I ask the owner for the location of the other number, the owner said he didn't know where it was. Come to think of it, the owner's stock answer to all difficult questions was 'I don't know'! I'll let you know if the surveyor reports any further on this matter. Didn't ask the servicing bod, I felt lucky to get the info I did and I didn't want to push matters there.

Have I come to any conclusion about the plywood panel. Yes! And I suspect that most of us reading this thread will feel that there's something distinctly odd about the combination of both numbers being unreadable. One number being unreadable/damaged is unlikely but possible. But two? And the second one a brass plate? Clearly that one couldn't become 'damaged' as on the stern of the boat. What possible reason could there be for securing a panel over the top of it? The mystery is compounded by the owner having what appeared to be the original builder's certificate with a number on it that corresponded with the numbers that could be read on the stern. The sheet of paper had an embossed seal on it (bit like a limited compnany seal used to be until about 12 years ago). The sheet certainly looked official.

As you say, it's the real owner's problem, whoever that might be.

 

[Guest]

Re: Peters...

Contacted none of these. Don't know the present insurer, boat was sold by Ancasta who were then the Fairline distributor out there. Fairline/Peters? I'd feel wrong contacting them but, on the other hand ...

 

[boatone]

Re: Peters...

Why on earth would you feel uncomfortable taking reasonable steps to protect your own best interests?

TonyR
boatone@boatsontheweb.com

 

[Guest]

Re: No, don\'t buy it...yet

Your feeling that you "daren't" or "don't like to" ask the tough questions means that you shouldn't buy it ....or you must get the answer the those questions, and they'd bbetter be good. The first owner simply MUST know why the numbers were bashed, or covered - it's not something that would be done quietly by a yard as part of normal servicing. saying "I don't know" and carrying an air that dares someone to question their integrity would make an ideal conman.

 

[BarryD]

Re: No, don\'t buy it...yet

If there is any doubt on £150K then there must surely be no doubt. Withhold the deposit until you can clearly prove provenance. My purchase was considerably cheaper but because of a break in the paper / owner trail I spent a lot of time to clear up the problem. Firstly for my peace of mind, but secondly I know I'm going to sell it next year (or Spring 2003) and the buyer will probably insist on the trail being clean.

 

[ChrisW]

Re: Priorities, priorities

Look since I am out here in mallorca I am more then happy to take a walk down the marina and have a look and nosey round for you. If you can give me some more details such mooring No, name of vendor etc.

 

[Guest]

Re: Good idea!

Wow, a REAL world wide web. Good idea ChrisW.

RichardC, if he has nothing to hide, he'll help you find the info you need. A lovely phrase to use in these circumstances is "It's not a question of trust - it's a question of CLARITY." This is the answeer, maybe used more than once, to any "are you calling me a liar" questions.

Course, if he's a conman, he'd throw up a smokescreen and go potty, can't be bothered, thinking of taking it off the market, has another buyer, make you feel awkward and so on...

 

[jfm]

You are not being pushy

Richard, I fully support the views of others here. Asking hard questions is not pushy or rude, hard questions can be asked politely. If he is a conman, he will yell "are you callng me a liar". If not, he will behave properly. If you or I were selling and the would-be buyer asked why the plywood, and there was an innocent explanation like Pauline's shoes, we would reply politely: "Yes I can fully apprecate why you're asking that and the explanation is bla bla... and here's the receipt from the yard for the work"

So go ahead and ask. Say "I've spoken to Peters and lots of people on www and other P42 owners and all tell me about the brass plate, so plse explain why plywood". Dont beat around bush, have it out in the open. If fobbed off say "it''s a pity cuz if you could satisfy me on this perfickly reasonable point I wd probly buy the boat, so can you give me any better evidence/explanation? Can my surveyor lift up the plywood?". Let us know, good luck!

The knowledgeable yard bloke at Peters Chichester is Robert Medway 01243 512831, he seemed very nice and probly you could talk to him directly if it helps you