capnsensible
Well-known member
To anyone who is worried about masthead rigs with big overlapping headsails, don't over concern yourself. Just be content to go a bit slower is all. 
Overlapping headsails and small main
- Thread starter Wansworth
- Start date
Buck Turgidson
Well-known member
And they are much easier to sheet to tiller steer.To anyone who is worried about masthead rigs with big overlapping headsails, don't over concern yourself. Just be content to go a bit slower is all.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
Yes, & all you need is a 50% jib sailed aback, acting as a brake, to balance the other fore sail
Not forgetting your girlfriends old knickers, for the elastic
Plus, a couple of cuckoo clocks, in case cuckoos are not in season
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Were you on the lawn at RSYC on Saturday?
Buck Turgidson
Well-known member
Well you could do that or just sheet the headsail until it’s just off the shrouds, pin the tiller in the middle then ease the main until the boat falls off then sheet it in a bit.Yes, & all you need is a 50% jib sailed aback, acting as a brake, to balance the other fore sail
Not forgetting your girlfriends old knickers, for the elastic
Plus, a couple of cuckoo clocks, in case cuckoos are not in season
Watch for a bit and adjust as required. If you can’t balance it then reef the main and try again.
flaming
Well-known member
Yes. We were the unfortunates who attracted the wrath of a seagull, who did it's business into our just bought jug of Pimms....
Very kind of the bar to replace it for us!
Wansworth
Well-known member
One of the pleasures of sailing is tacking up a creek this were a jib that tacks easily without a lot of kerfuffle is nice.
geem
Well-known member
Yep, but you can have the best of both worlds. We have both foresail setups
The small jib big main makes a crappy trade wind rig so it's not all good news. It totally depends on the kind of sailing you intend to do.
flaming
Well-known member
Yes, but the ratio of tradewind sailors to coastal cruisers is pretty small. Which is why I find it odd that so many boats are rigged that way, when for coastal cruising it's reasonably likely that you will have to do a fair proportion of upwind work.Yep, but you can have the best of both worlds. We have both foresail setups
The small jib big main makes a crappy trade wind rig so it's not all good news. It totally depends on the kind of sailing you intend to do.
In reality the boats representing the latest developments sail in a kind of hybrid way. Fractional forestay with fairly high aspect jib for upwind work, then furling code sails on masthead halyards and bowsprits for horsepower when reaching in moderate winds and big A-sails for offwind work. The sail area increase between jib and reaching "code" sail is quite large....
Wouldn't suit your boat, as you need to sail angles downwind to make that work, but that's the way rig development is really going.
geem
Well-known member
But not for Trade wind around the world sailors. That is mostly who we meet. Swept back spreaders destroy sails. Boats loaded with several months provisions are slow when reaching and have to put in lots more miles. They sail DDW with spinnakers or twin heads sails on poles. They are normally short handed so need an appropriate set up.
One guy we know has cancelled his around the world ARC because he has the wrong boat. A Shipman 59. Carbon high performance boat. He is from a racing background so naturally went for a performance boat. He now realises its unsuitable to sail around the world in with his family. They had problems controlling the boat is narly weather. It's a lovely looking boat but flat bottomed planing machine not a comfortable home with nice motion and a good turn of speed easily handled by a small crew
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flaming
Well-known member
Your view of what is "normal" is skewed by where you are. In reality tradewind round the world sailors, or even just transatlantic sailors, are really in the minority in the global sailing market. People who can afford a Shipman 59 even more so!
And of course, unlike your friend, some people seem to prefer the faster more "no frills" sort of approach to Ocean sailing. For example the wait for a Pogo build slot is still over 3 years, and they build about 55 boats per year. Doesn't make that right for everyone of course, but does mean that there are people out there in them.... And they're rare as hens teeth on the second hand market so it's not as if there are a huge number of people realising they've made a mistake and dumping them either.
Wait for a cruising JPK is about the same.
But that's all a bit irrelevant to the OP... remember the OP was asking about "cheap second hand boats". From what I gather he's not off ocean cruising, but going coastal sailing. So the experiences of tradewind sailors don't really seem all that relevant, and those in Shipman 59s, Trintella 44s, JPKs and Pogos equally so!
Daydream believer
Well-known member
So that will work when running down wind will it?
Or when broad reaching in F6 with a 2 metre quartering sea when a Raymarine EV100 just gives up the ghost , as the boat rounds up on every wave.
I have a self tacking jib by the way.
geem
Well-known member
Yep, normal for us and everybody out there doing what we do is totally different to being in the UK behind a desk 5 days a week with weekend sailing. We have different priorities. 26,000 yachts in the Caribbean at the last count so its quite a large band of normal. That's probably more boats than there are in the UK. Not everybody is ocean sailing and many are based here full-time but it does skew normal. We rarely see a Pogo but there is every shape and size of boat here
Daydream believer
Well-known member
Why would you want to replace a dollop of seagull poo?
flaming
Well-known member
If you believe this there were 60k sailing yachts in the UK in 2017.
Boats owned by households in the UK 2017 | Statista
Which is a small number compared to the rest of Europe. A conservative estimate puts the number of sailing yachts in France at over 100k.
geem
Well-known member
Most of those out here are at anchor and in use. Not sst in boatyards or marinas unused. Huge amount of sailing activity in high season because life is at anchor here. Very few marinas compared to volume of boats. Most of the marinas here cater for the charter fleets
I once read a great statistic thst suggested only a third of boats in marinas go out and only a third of those that do are competent
Daydream believer
Well-known member
I was given a statistic that said that had nothing to do with 99% of the people who thought it should do.I once read a great statistic thst suggested only a third of boats in marinas go out and only a third of those that do are competent
I think this is the point where I should go & mow the lawn
flaming
Well-known member
The usage may or may not be correct, but the point is not what sailors are doing, it's what do people spending money on new boats want to buy?Most of those out here are at anchor and in use. Not sst in boatyards or marinas unused. Huge amount of sailing activity in high season because life is at anchor here. Very few marinas compared to volume of boats. Most of the marinas here cater for the charter fleets
I once read a great statistic thst suggested only a third of boats in marinas go out and only a third of those that do are competent
Remember for all you laud the characteristics of your boat, the yard went bust several times and the name has recently been relaunched, but not as go anywhere blue water boat, but as "gentlemen's yachts" sporting all the things you have been saying you don't want in a rig - a carbon stick featuring swept back spreaders and A-sails on bowsprits...
Trintella 45
Boats designed as you would want for your use are available to buy now. But they are many times more expensive than even Pogo and JPK, and are built in extremely small numbers. Even the "go-to" builders of production ocean cruisers of days gone past, Haalberg rassey etc, are basically building twin ruddered wide hulls sporting swept back spreader rigs and bowsprits.
Which does make you wonder if the tradewind sailors of the future are either going to have to be very rich, sail increasingly ancient boats or adapt to boats that are actually available in decent numbers at somewhat affordable prices.
Probably a mix of all 3 depending on their circumstance I would suggest....
Buck Turgidson
Well-known member
geem
Well-known member
Like I said. There are all kinds of boats out here doing long passages, living their dream and sailing long distances or just living at anchor in the sun. Your perfect boat would be my idea of hell. We like different things and choose accordingly. You would hate my boat. You can only see speed at the driver for selecting a boat because you race.
Cruising isnt like that. You would hate it
Comfort at anchor, comfort on passage, load carrying capacity, decent galley, decent bed, decent shower, fridge freezer, places to store dive gear, bikes, kitesurfing gear, wing foiling gear, dive gear,etc. These are all alien conceprt to you. Its the reason why many people choose floating houses AKA Lagoon catamarans. All the comfort of home. The other end of the spectrum to a Pogo