Daydream believer
Well-known member
Be careful. There are some on this forum who would think that using a winch for such a task is sacrilege
Overlapping headsails and small main
- Thread starter Wansworth
- Start date
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Very goodThat would be a couple of days after the last booze up then
Regrettably it’s about 60 years. Long enough to know I have to ease the sheet before reefing. If we’re going upwind, we’ll be doing that with the jib in about 16-17kn true. Which is 25-26 apparent. That’s a lot of drag on a flapping sail.doug748
Well-known member
Yes. You are correct to point these things out. I am not sure I prefer masthead rig but it does have advantages that are seldom mentioned in these discussions.
Actually, thinking about it, I am wrong, I do prefer masthead rig. Though I don't think it is a matter to get worked up about if a boat is otherwise spot on for the intended use.
.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Was
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
I think you’ve cut to the chase there. If it works well for the boat snd intended use, the rig is great. It’s not about the rig, it’s about the package, being under control and having the performance you want. Not getting hung up on where your forestay attaches.
xyachtdave
Well-known member
That’s a great way to break something!
I’ve witnessed two powered winch induced breakages, one on furling gear…wasn’t coming in by hand, XYDave’s concerns are ignored, furling line wrapped around a large sheet winch…button pressed…
zzzzzzzzzzzz…..bang!!
The second was a main halyard, batten car caught in mast slot….zzzzzzzzzz….bang!!
Both these on big 45 ft X Yachts. The owners didn’t seem concerned, just annoyed by the strength of their gear not handling the IMO excessive loads.
geem
Well-known member
He didn't mention electric winch, just winch
xyachtdave
Well-known member
Bobc
Well-known member
That's just people with more money than brains. If you try to make things idiot-proof, they just bring you a different kind of idiot.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
I have just bought a new Profurl for my jib. I normally use the ST not the 140% genoa. I can pull the sail in when the wind is light. In the marina with no sheet attached. The sail feathering in the wind. But my aged hands do not like it. I will use the winch at sea. I did this with the old Facnor furler. I know when things are getting heavy & I think I would have the sense to stop. I cannot quite pull in by hand & keep my balance in the cockpit. I am able to tell the difference if the winch starts to feel loaded. If it does I stop.
One other point. Whenever i am sail handling I try to look at the sail that i am handling to see what is happening. Just head down & grinding on the winch is not advisable if one is on one's own with no one to say if something is snagging or not. Spacial awareness is important when SH
One other point. Whenever i am sail handling I try to look at the sail that i am handling to see what is happening. Just head down & grinding on the winch is not advisable if one is on one's own with no one to say if something is snagging or not. Spacial awareness is important when SH
Baggywrinkle
Well-known member
... on the subject of large genoas, the med charter companies used to spec the boats with large genoas to avoid giving the charterers a spinnaker or light-wind sail. Then came self-tacking and code zeros .... I switched my big ex-charter genny for a 110% with a foam luff and an asymetric ..... was a different boat afterwards .... money well spent.
Next boat will be self-tacking with a code zero if I can find one in budget.
Next boat will be self-tacking with a code zero if I can find one in budget.
geem
Well-known member
Don't plan any Atlantic crossings with it then
Baggywrinkle
Well-known member
Why for the life of me would I want to do that?Don't plan any Atlantic crossings with it then
.... that's what these things are for .....
... and these ....
... you should try them. Saves loads of time and effort.
geem
Well-known member
Life is about adventure,Why for the life of me would I want to do that?
... and these ....
... you should try them. Saves loads of time and effort.
We are on a different planet
SaltyC
Well-known member
Been there, done that, got the Tee shirt. Boring, no sense of achievement.Why for the life of me would I want to do that?
... and these ....
... you should try them. Saves loads of time and effort.
Haven't sailed across but feel more relaxed and a sense of achievement, arrived with your own efforts.
Happy to be corrected.
Baggywrinkle
Well-known member
If you personally feel you have missed out in some way because you didn't spend a considerable amount of your free time planning and executing a 3-4 week dash across the Atlantic then either do it or accept it was not for you and move on. I have no interest in ocean crossings, I would find them tedious and boring, so wouldn't put myself through it ... there is nothing wrong with that, just as there is nothing wrong with crossing the Atlantic in a bath tub if you feel the need to. Everyone gets something different out of messing about in boats.
Nothing is right or wrong, some may try and make life into a willy waving contest but he (or she) who dies with the most toys, the most money, or the most adventurous achievements doesn't actually win anything. Do things for yourself, and don't feel inferior because someone else holds a different opinion.
Shuggy
Well-known member
We’ve got a 155% genoa that we use unreefed up to about 13 knots true upwind. After 13 we roll in to the first reefing point; after about 18 we go to the second. Seems to work just fine in 15 years with the same boat. We don’t tend to reef the main until about 20 true; second reef is about 25. Third reef is 30+. All upwind. She heels enthusiastically but with 30’ waterline length and 43’ LOA she needs to be very tippy to go fast. We changed the Dacron genoa to something a bit less stretchy in 2011 and will get a cruising laminate one next year to match the mainsail.
As an aside we have the Tides Marine mainsail track - a very good piece of kit after we fitted it about 10 years ago. Lots of bang for the buck.
As an aside we have the Tides Marine mainsail track - a very good piece of kit after we fitted it about 10 years ago. Lots of bang for the buck.
geem
Well-known member
What height mast? What size main and genoa? On a 44ft loa ketch we need to reef early up wind. With a 130% genoa we furl it away at 16/17kts True and drop to working headsail. We never reef any of the genoa upwind. Genoa is 65m2. The main we can hang on to a little longer as we drop to 29m2 on the smaller headsail. By 28kts True upwind we are full jib and 2 reefs in main if the seas are big and/or steep. 0ver 30kts we would put some rolls on the jib and triple reef the main.
The main mast is 17.8m of the deck. We can stand up to a reasonable amount of canvas with a deep draft 2.2m, 6t lead keel. In steepseas we often need more sail area to punch through the seas. We often lean to 30deg in these conditions with the toerail going under. Its not comfortable but it is an effective way to get up wind. In 2020 we spent two memorable days like that crossing from the Caribbean to Azores hard on the weather. Everything creaking but good boats speed. Quote happy when the wind eased and veered allowing use to sail upright and direct for our destination.
We have the Selden batten cars that run in the outside of the mast. Very effective and super low friction. There are 12 cars in total and no sliders.
flaming
Well-known member
Had a lovely race with JOG yesterday from Yarmouth to Cowes via Ryde. Extreme stuff... Had about 15-18kts True from just North of East, so a lot of beating.
This thread popped into my head as we passed a couple of cruisers who were also beating. One had a blade fractional foresail and a full main. They were pointing up pretty well, not a huge amount off our angle and the trim looked good and heel looked comfortable.
A few others had rolls in large masthead foresails. They were significantly less weatherly and clearly generating considerably more leeway. Often accompanied with significant flapping from the leach of the foresail. It all looked significantly less pleasant.
Obviously windward performance is not the only consideration, but yesterday there was no doubt at all which rig was providing a better sail and a more pleasant boat to be on for the cruisers.
This thread popped into my head as we passed a couple of cruisers who were also beating. One had a blade fractional foresail and a full main. They were pointing up pretty well, not a huge amount off our angle and the trim looked good and heel looked comfortable.
A few others had rolls in large masthead foresails. They were significantly less weatherly and clearly generating considerably more leeway. Often accompanied with significant flapping from the leach of the foresail. It all looked significantly less pleasant.
Obviously windward performance is not the only consideration, but yesterday there was no doubt at all which rig was providing a better sail and a more pleasant boat to be on for the cruisers.
Wansworth
Well-known member
You should have been concentrating more on the job in hand
