Wansworth
Well-known member
Stand on the afr deck and hold out a Sardine…..
Orca attack
- Thread starter Sailfree
- Start date
Davy_S
Well-known member
What about pouring cannabis oil on the Orcas? peace man chil out, of course it could give them the munchies
Wansworth
Well-known member
They already have thatWhat about pouring cannabis oil on the Orcas? peace man chil out, of course it could give them the munchies
Graham376
Well-known member
They have been reported to be effective but don't know by whom. They come under the firearms act in Portugal and appear to be illegal to have in one's possession but, over the counter in Spain.
webcraft
Well-known member
Could you please point me to the Spanish or Portuguese law that says fitting spikes to ones rudder is illegal?
No? Thought not.
- W
webcraft
Well-known member
webcraft
Well-known member
Few people will admit to possessing them or using them because the orca huggers go nuts and bother the authorities. In spite of that no-one has been arrested or reprimanded for possessing them in Portugal as far as I know. In Spain possessing them is legal but chucking them at orcas is not.
Anyone who has reported using them has said they are very effective. I have a friend whose friend used them. He said with the first one the orcas stopped the attack but didn't go away, just gave him a hard state. He chucked a second banger in and they went away.
- W
greeny
Well-known member
https://www.miteco.gob.es/content/d...rina/orcas/informe-taller-orcas-miteco-en.pdf
I think reading this report from the last official government body meeting held in Madrid in February may help this debate. . Short spikes on the rudder are getting favourable support from the participants on that committee. Many of the other tried and tested deterrents are also discussed. I know most of you won't even read it, all you are interested in is stirring the pot on the forum. Go on, read it and then put yourself in the position of the people on here who sail with the threat regularly.
I think reading this report from the last official government body meeting held in Madrid in February may help this debate. . Short spikes on the rudder are getting favourable support from the participants on that committee. Many of the other tried and tested deterrents are also discussed. I know most of you won't even read it, all you are interested in is stirring the pot on the forum. Go on, read it and then put yourself in the position of the people on here who sail with the threat regularly.
greeny
Well-known member
I suggest you read the report from the last meeting in February that I have just posted. It may help you.
Bristolfashion
Well-known member
A few interesting observations on the report,
On sharp "deterrents",
"the Workshop stressed that any rudder modifications must be carefully
evaluated to ensure that they do not directly harm whales. In addition, it was noted that mariners would probably be reluctant to use methods that might permanently affect the handling of the vessel. The Workshop agreed that there was thus merit in developing approaches that modified the rudder (or the area around the rudder) as needed, rather than permanently.With respect to the use of sharp objects (such as knives and spikes—see Item 4.3 and Table 1), the Workshop noted that they have the potential to harm individual whales, perhaps seriously. This is illegal under EU and national laws"
On the status of the Orcas,
"Iberian killer whales are Critically Endangered (Item 2.1). There are probably less than 40 individuals in the population and there is evidence of a decrease in adult female survival. Aggressive responses by some
mariners to interactions with Iberian killer whales that may result in injury and/or death are a new,
important threat to the survival of this population that emphasises the need to find practical solutions to the issue as soon as possible."
On Greeny's "short spikes are getting favourable support" rather, misleading, comment,
"Therefore, if rudders are to be modified,small protuberances would be more appropriate; any modifications to rudders should be designed to ensure that they are not injurious but merely uncomfortable. "
And the recommendation for action that mariners take,
"In summary, the Workshop recommended that mariners use only methods with no impact on the whales or the environment (e.g. moving away), until research and testing, scheduled to be undertaken as soon as possible, determine the effectiveness and safety of other potential measures discussed by the Workshop (see Annex 4 of the full report).
The Workshop also recommended that mitigation measures that produce sound/noise, should they be authorised, be used only when needed, rather than continuously. Continuous use of any such noise-producing measures may:
(1) Reduce their effectiveness (the whales may become habituated, as they have to many other human-
caused sounds in their environment);
(2) Eventually serve to attract the whales, as they learn to identify the continuous sounds/noises with
vessels and rudders; and
(3) Harm the whales and other marine life (including bluefin tuna and other commercially targeted fish),
as it increases the level of ‘noise pollution’ in the Iberian marine environment."
On sharp "deterrents",
"the Workshop stressed that any rudder modifications must be carefully
evaluated to ensure that they do not directly harm whales. In addition, it was noted that mariners would probably be reluctant to use methods that might permanently affect the handling of the vessel. The Workshop agreed that there was thus merit in developing approaches that modified the rudder (or the area around the rudder) as needed, rather than permanently.With respect to the use of sharp objects (such as knives and spikes—see Item 4.3 and Table 1), the Workshop noted that they have the potential to harm individual whales, perhaps seriously. This is illegal under EU and national laws"
On the status of the Orcas,
"Iberian killer whales are Critically Endangered (Item 2.1). There are probably less than 40 individuals in the population and there is evidence of a decrease in adult female survival. Aggressive responses by some
mariners to interactions with Iberian killer whales that may result in injury and/or death are a new,
important threat to the survival of this population that emphasises the need to find practical solutions to the issue as soon as possible."
On Greeny's "short spikes are getting favourable support" rather, misleading, comment,
"Therefore, if rudders are to be modified,small protuberances would be more appropriate; any modifications to rudders should be designed to ensure that they are not injurious but merely uncomfortable. "
And the recommendation for action that mariners take,
"In summary, the Workshop recommended that mariners use only methods with no impact on the whales or the environment (e.g. moving away), until research and testing, scheduled to be undertaken as soon as possible, determine the effectiveness and safety of other potential measures discussed by the Workshop (see Annex 4 of the full report).
The Workshop also recommended that mitigation measures that produce sound/noise, should they be authorised, be used only when needed, rather than continuously. Continuous use of any such noise-producing measures may:
(1) Reduce their effectiveness (the whales may become habituated, as they have to many other human-
caused sounds in their environment);
(2) Eventually serve to attract the whales, as they learn to identify the continuous sounds/noises with
vessels and rudders; and
(3) Harm the whales and other marine life (including bluefin tuna and other commercially targeted fish),
as it increases the level of ‘noise pollution’ in the Iberian marine environment."
Bristolfashion
Well-known member
Are you sure you've read it? Here's the table from the end of the report. It hardly supports any of the more extreme measures and confirms the endangered nature of this population. Obviously it discusses further research.
Interestingly, they suggest that the act of attaching sharp blades to the rudder in itself is illegal?
What "message of hope" were you and the other anti-orca correspondents taking from this report?
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
Short spikes are not receiving support, there is mention of small protuberances on the rudder being legal but illegal should they cause harm. In essence the only thing they recommend is moving away. It's all Blah Blah Blah
Bristolfashion
Well-known member
I suppose you could always read the thread before posting - the suggestion wasn't marine flares, which at least are intended for hand activation, but "fireworks". There are reports of people using all sorts - which, I would suggest is much more likely to go wrong.
However, the RYA advises that it is illegal to let off a distress flare without an emergency, I would suspect that there may be similar provisions in other jurisdictions.
Orca bumps boat - inexperienced/panicked person grabs incendiary - orca bumps boat again ....! Not good.
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
Whatever is written here I would think most prudent sailors would opt for either keeping well out to the West or keeping as close inshore as reasonably possible or carrying a reasonable number of explosive fireworks with a small weight taped to each.
Bristolfashion
Well-known member
Well, actually, I was referring to actions (as I said in my previous post) - i.e. using the spikes, rather than just fitting them. However, in the table from the Spanish report that Greeny so kindly provided, the fitting of these spikes is shown as illegal - so the official Spanish report thinks that they are illegal.
I reproduced that table in a recent post.
I assume that the committee has interpreted the relevant provisions of,
Law 42/2007: Planes de Ordenación de los Recursos Naturales
in that way.
This forbids any actions carried out with the purpose of killing, persecuting, capturing or disturbing them (protected species).
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Bristolfashion
Well-known member
And has been prosecuted in Spain. From Greeny's report,
"To date, mariners are known or believed to have used a number of methods (with at least one
crew, which fired flares at killer whales, under investigation by Spanish authorities; Item 2.3.1), "
Fancy a Spanish prison do you? Or at least the possibility of a fine.
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
They cannot be illegal until they cause harm to the Orca and there is zero chance of that ever being proven. They are effectively saying they would like them to be illegal.
The reality is that both yacht rudder and Orca would suffer unless the Orca recognises them as dangerous and does not attack the rudder in which case they fall into the effective deterrent category unless you subscribe to the view that the Orca would be traumatised in not being able to munch a rudder.
Bristolfashion
Well-known member
I was quite surprised that Greeny put that report up as an anti-orca resource. It pretty much says more away, more research, don't do the things mariners are dreaming about.
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
Under investigation is not prosecuted and yes I would call in at a Northern Spanish port and buy at least 20 of the biggest bangers available or try to buy them in my departing country as my normal or preferred route to the Azores or Canaries would be well offshore.
Bristolfashion
Well-known member
Well, remember that it's the Spanish report that says that the fitting of these blades is illegal, not me. Feel free to argue with the Spanish ministry.