TheCharteringClasses
Well-Known Member
Fill 'em up with concrete and make new harbour walls with them....
Observations on boat prices
- Thread starter Tranona
- Start date
Fill 'em up with concrete and make new harbour walls with them....
eddystone
Well-Known Member
....or, as it turned out, no market at all. Agree with all that but particularly comments that UK boatbuilders went t*ts up because of poor management, like not understanding the market they operated in. From what I have read Westerly priced themselves out of the market band they were actually in and Sadler were price competitive but didn't actually know their production cost - turned out they were selling at a loss. I think blaming the VAT hike for everything is symptomatic of that - good management understands changes in operating environment and plans for it. Have you noticed how many successful engineering manufacturers in UK have non UK CEOs. Where does most UK talent go - into the Square Mile of course.
BTW, unlike one poster I don't fear for the future of Rustler at all - I think they understand their customers very well.
rogerball0
N/A
I'd be shitting myself in a few years time if i was running Rustlers right now, pretty confident they'll be dead and buried when most of the boomers that buy them are too, but hey as long as you can make a decent profit making, what half a dozen boats a year good luck to 'em!
As long as theres music playing, keep partying - dont worry about the smell of burning or the lack of fire escapes.
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siwhi
Well-Known Member
Besides the aforementioned factors such as lack of investment in mass production, poor management, not producing the product customers want to buy, lack of exports, no state support for the industry, shortage of skilled labour, etc, there is another factor which helps explain the demise of British yacht production (and manufacturing in general) that often gets overlooked. The fact that so many producers all stopped production around the 1990’s hints at a systemic issue – the exchange rate. This is caused by structural imbalance in the economy and political decision making.
This has been noted by others before, but not given the attention it deserves. When the pound was strong imports were cheaper. The same applies today. This may lead some wise folk to time their purchases of German boats to get best value, and well done to them. It also has the effect of making British product expensive and killing the domestic market and exports at the same time. Large mobo’s are less price sensitive, so the competitive advantages which France and Germany have are less significant, so the UK does relatively well in this market.
This has been noted by others before, but not given the attention it deserves. When the pound was strong imports were cheaper. The same applies today. This may lead some wise folk to time their purchases of German boats to get best value, and well done to them. It also has the effect of making British product expensive and killing the domestic market and exports at the same time. Large mobo’s are less price sensitive, so the competitive advantages which France and Germany have are less significant, so the UK does relatively well in this market.
eddystone
Well-Known Member
According to their blogs, customers are less boomers than CEOs and fund managers!
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Morgan Cars still ave a waiting list, though it's apparently only around a year now.
Resolution
Well-Known Member
L
Good thread, and this is a perceptive comment. There must be some bright spark who can come up with an economic answer?
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
Exactly - sometimes your market is not the lowest common denominator.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Not so. You can buy a new one today from any one of a number of dealers. The only ones with the waiting list are the "specials" such as the new Aero 8 and the AR Plus 4 which are limited edition and built to order. I bought my Morgan in 2003 when it was a demonstrator 2 months old with no wait. If you wanted a standard model with exactly the spec you wanted it would be less than 6 months.
The waiting list was always a bit of a myth anyway as few people actually took up their build slots when they came up and they were traded through dealers to real buyers who did not want to wait. The system changed around the time I was buying mine and there was no waiting list, only a "wait" for the car to be built so you had to pay to get a slot, just like buying a boat.
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Way
Well-Known Member
I hope I am wrong about Rustler.
I fear unless they come up with an accompanying cheaper line as an option, they will struggle. I hope not. But who is buying such high end boats now?
Maxi's are now built in Eastern Europe - really says a lot
I fear unless they come up with an accompanying cheaper line as an option, they will struggle. I hope not. But who is buying such high end boats now?
Maxi's are now built in Eastern Europe - really says a lot
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
When i visited the factory before buying mine in 1974 the owners name was attached to the chasis during build . I was quite interested to see King Hussein of Jordan had ordered a +8 and any extras were on the same card. I ordered mine and finally took a cancelled order 2 years after i ordered it it seems King H had to wait for his as well
Sold it after 4 years for 50% more than i paid for it new-- a 4+4. i did shed a tear
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Tranona
Well-Known Member
If you are having one built for you an option is to have a photographic build record - some dealers do this on their stock cars as well. If you are really anal you can sign your name on the ash frame before the alloy panels go on.
Before buying my Bavaria seriously considered having one of the new Aero 8s - slightly cheaper than the boat but it won't fit my garage and I have a berth for the boat. Will be seeing one of the first of them at Richard Thorne's in a couple of weeks time.
eddystone
Well-Known Member
I would imagine same sort of appeal, and customers, as Halberg Rassy or bottom of the range Gunfleet/Oyster. People releasing capital from property, selling a business, people on very high incomes - they don't need many customers - they make boats in 10s, not hundreds like HR. And they are clever enough to make their boats look expensive and have some A list customers. I would think if they wanted to diversify as a hedge against the vagaries of the market, they would be better sticking to different types of luxury end products that utilise the skill sets they have in house.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Mmyes, but I gather that it has always been the custom for dealers to book build slots on spec. Morgan themselves seem a little coy on the subject at the moment, but google suggests that - unless you buy a dealer booked one, or second hand - the wait is about a year at the moment. I'm saving up for a three-wheeler.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
But in this country you can only buy from a dealer - no factory waiting list. Might be different for an overseas buyer like the guy I met in New Zealand who bought his direct from the factory.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
In that case I presume the year is the wait if the dealer doesn't have a slot booked.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Is this what they call "thread drift?"
pandroid
Well-Known Member
I think this 'boating is cheaper is real terms' thing only applies to Bavs. A new HR is now more than twice what the same boat would have cost in 2000, and I'm pretty sure this is also the case for X and other similar builders. They are all priced in Euros so the exchange rate thing doesn't apply.
Bavaria destroyed their residuals in the noughties by continually bringing out a bigger boat at a cheaper price than last year's, smaller model.
Not knocking Bavs (well I am, each to his own), just sayin'....
Bavaria destroyed their residuals in the noughties by continually bringing out a bigger boat at a cheaper price than last year's, smaller model.
Not knocking Bavs (well I am, each to his own), just sayin'....
Tranona
Well-Known Member
I am afraid your comment about residuals does not stand up to scrutiny. The %age fall in value of most makes of mass produced boats is very similar, and generally greater than more individual boats such as HR, mainly for the very reason you highlight. Thos builders have failed to control/reduce their costs in same way as the mass producers so widening the gap between new and used boats so increasing potential demand and therefore prices for used boats. However it is noticeable in the last year that asking prices of such boats have fallen in line with general falls in values of used boats.
Of course the exchange rate is relevant - if you are buying in £sterling. A new HR is over 15% cheaper in £ terms than it was a year ago. Bavarias are also priced in Euros and the dealer sets his price at the rate of exchange that he thinks will rule when he has to pay for the boat he has ordered. In my case the improvement in the value of the £ since the prices were set at the end of 2014 was reflected in the actual sterling price I paid. Prices for the coming year will be set between now an the new year and you can expect the fall in the value of the Euro to lead at least to no £ price increases and more likely reductions in list prices.
GrahamM376
Well-Known Member
I sold my last Matchless engined Morgan 3 wheeler for IIRC £35 but that was back in the early '60s. Hindsight is wonderful, would be worth a lot more now but the storage costs for all those years would likely have been crazy.
