Observations on boat prices

[sailorman]

I sold my last Matchless engined Morgan 3 wheeler for IIRC £35 but that was back in the early '60s. Hindsight is wonderful, would be worth a lot more now but the storage costs for all those years would likely have been crazy.

£65k+

 

[Daydream believer]

Of course the exchange rate is relevant - if you are buying in £sterling. A new HR is over 15% cheaper in £ terms than it was a year ago. Bavarias are also priced in Euros and the dealer sets his price at the rate of exchange that he thinks will rule when he has to pay for the boat he has ordered. In my case the improvement in the value of the £ since the prices were set at the end of 2014 was reflected in the actual sterling price I paid. Prices for the coming year will be set between now an the new year and you can expect the fall in the value of the Euro to lead at least to no £ price increases and more likely reductions in list prices.

Not sure how it works, someone will tell us , but I always thought that the dealer would buy the euros by booking them with a bank when he ordered the boat so that he was not caught out by exchange rate. That takes out the suggested guess that you are indicating

 

[pvb]

A new HR is now more than twice what the same boat would have cost in 2000....

You do realise I suppose that none of the current HR range was available in 2000?

 

[pvb]

Not sure how it works, someone will tell us , but I always thought that the dealer would buy the euros by booking them with a bank when he ordered the boat so that he was not caught out by exchange rate. That takes out the suggested guess that you are indicating

That's exactly what they do, unless they want to gamble. My Bavaria contract was priced in euros and I decided (foolishgly in hindsight) to go for an agreed sterling price rather than risk the vagaries of exchange rates.

 

[pandroid]

You do realise I suppose that none of the current HR range was available in 2000?

HR only change the models because they want to put the price up. They are broadly the same boat - their designs evolve rather than start afresh. Certainly not enough of a difference to justify a doubling in price on changes alone. You can compare the specs on line if you want. (The X range are quite different, I agree).

Bav operate (or used to, or maybe its different now) a different model from HR, where they ship a standard factory boat to the dealer, who fits the extras. The contract from the punter is with the dealer. In contrast, with the Scandinavian boats, the dealer is just an agent, and the contract is with the yard who fit the extras themselves.

With regard to Exchange rates. We bought our HR (in 2000) at 12.5 SEK/£. The current exchange rate is 12.85.

 

[pvb]

HR only change the models because they want to put the price up. They are broadly the same boat - their designs evolve rather than start afresh. Certainly not enough of a difference to justify a doubling in price on changes alone.

That's rather like saying a 2015 VW Golf is much more than a 2000 VW Golf - you might say they're broadly the same car, but the reality is the 2015 model is streets ahead.

 

[pandroid]

That's rather like saying a 2015 VW Golf is much more than a 2000 VW Golf - you might say they're broadly the same car, but the reality is the 2015 model is streets ahead.

Yes, but is a 2015 Golf twice the price of one in 2000?

The OPs original point was that he can buy a 2015 Bav for the same price (more or less) as one would have cost him in 2000 (therefore making it cheaper in real terms). My point was that that's not the case for a HR and some others. In neither case are they the same boat - both are better models, as is the Golf. It is however difficult to argue that the HR is twice the boat than it was - I know this because I compared them when I wanted to upgrade. We decided at the time that the difference didn't justify the price and if we wanted to spend that money there were other options.

 

[pvb]

Yes, but is a 2015 Golf twice the price of one in 2000?

Almost, yes.

The OPs original point was that he can buy a 2015 Bav for the same price (more or less) as one would have cost him in 2000 (therefore making it cheaper in real terms).

No, if you read his post carefully, he said that a similar spec boat is now about 30% more expensive but that, if you take inflation into account, it's effectively 20% cheaper.

When I sold my old HR352 last year, I would have been very interested in a new HR37. However, it was at least 3 times the price of a new fully-spec'd Bavaria Cruiser 37. Even though a long-term HR owner, I simply couldn't justify the extra spend - after all, it's only a boat, not a home. So I bought a Bavaria, and so far I'm hugely impressed by it.

 

[Tranona]

Not sure how it works, someone will tell us , but I always thought that the dealer would buy the euros by booking them with a bank when he ordered the boat so that he was not caught out by exchange rate. That takes out the suggested guess that you are indicating

That is correct. We agreed a price in sterling reflecting the exchange rate changes since the published price was set. Paid the deposit to get the build slot and the dealer bought a forward to cover the final payment which was due the day the boat was finished.

With my last boat I had to pay in DM so all the risk of exchange rate movements was with me so I waited for what I thought was the best rate and bought a forward for the final payment.

At the end of the day the exchange rate is only one factor affecting the price you pay, particularly if there is a part exchange involved and the Figure to focus on is the sterling price to change - that is how much cash do I have to pay to get the boat i want.

 

[GrahamM376]

That's rather like saying a 2015 VW Golf is much more than a 2000 VW Golf - you might say they're broadly the same car, but the reality is the 2015 model is streets ahead.

Cars are a totally different ball game. In '89 or '90, I bought a new Rangerover £28k and a Rover Vitesse (carp car, no aircon, power steering etc) for SWMBO cost £10k. Like most upmarket cars, Rangerovers are now very expensive whereas at the cheaper end such as the Rover, a better car with abs, aircon, etc. can be had for £2k less money than in 1989/90.

 

[Tranona]

Bav operate (or used to, or maybe its different now) a different model from HR, where they ship a standard factory boat to the dealer, who fits the extras. The contract from the punter is with the dealer. In contrast, with the Scandinavian boats, the dealer is just an agent, and the contract is with the yard who fit the extras themselves.

That is no longer true. Almost everything on my boat was factory fit. The only local work was the remote for the thruster/windlass, Coppercoat, canvas work, radar reflector, CD player, battery monitor and galvanic isolator. The boat was built to order with our choice of equipment and finishes (within what is offered of course). Ordered on 11 May, built mid July, finished 20 July and delivered to the Hamble on 25 July. Although the contract was with Clipper, payments went straight to Bavaria and I received a partial Bill of Sale for the deposit. Final payment was due the date of finish and factory faxed over Builders certificate, BOS to dealer and dealer gave me BOS to us on final payment.

Buying through a dealer has some clear advantages. Your contract is with a UK company which can be an advantage if things go wrong - as those who have tried to take action against HR (and other Swedish builders) in the past have found out. The contract is also for a delivered and commissioned boat so all liability is with the same entity. There are of course potential disadvantages, particularly with some smaller dealers who do not have the financial backing that Clipper has and you have to make your own judgement about the level of risk involved.

As I described elsewhere the whole process once the decision was made on the boat was painless - just as easy as buying a new car from the local Ford dealer.

 

[Way]

Really interesting. I'm watching a couple of HR 312s at the moment that I never would've thought would be in my price range at this stage.

Also watching a 1970s 35 footer that I'm told is well priced despite being on the market for over 3 years.

Almost, yes.



No, if you read his post carefully, he said that a similar spec boat is now about 30% more expensive but that, if you take inflation into account, it's effectively 20% cheaper.

When I sold my old HR352 last year, I would have been very interested in a new HR37. However, it was at least 3 times the price of a new fully-spec'd Bavaria Cruiser 37. Even though a long-term HR owner, I simply couldn't justify the extra spend - after all, it's only a boat, not a home. So I bought a Bavaria, and so far I'm hugely impressed by it.

 

[mmorgan@peoplevalue.co.uk]

Not read all the comments here (seems to be an area of great interest) but the exchange rate needs to be also considered. The price of mass produced yachts both new and those only a few years old in the med offer great value. I am in the process of a purchase and looking for 2010 benedufbavjenneauarea which is not ex-charter (wish the search engines would give you this filter) and there are some great deals to be had when you find them. Also the weather here is rubbish and cost of parking is double that of the med. However, the advantage of owning in the UK is you can look out and upwards, if the sun is out, jump in the car. The answer for me is to do both so will be looking for a smaller quality British boat of some vintage to park on the south coast and have the benedufbavjenneauarea ready for my summer "extended" vacations. I appreciate I am fortunate to be able to do this. But it is for this reason I believe that the UK market is struggling. However, I am not seeing the demise in reality, on a fine summers day (when they happen) at a weekend col regs become a necessity as you weave your way through the Solent chaos.

 

[Sybarite]

Not read all the comments here (seems to be an area of great interest) but the exchange rate needs to be also considered. The price of mass produced yachts both new and those only a few years old in the med offer great value. I am in the process of a purchase and looking for 2010 benedufbavjenneauarea which is not ex-charter (wish the search engines would give you this filter) and there are some great deals to be had when you find them. Also the weather here is rubbish and cost of parking is double that of the med. However, the advantage of owning in the UK is you can look out and upwards, if the sun is out, jump in the car. The answer for me is to do both so will be looking for a smaller quality British boat of some vintage to park on the south coast and have the benedufbavjenneauarea ready for my summer "extended" vacations. I appreciate I am fortunate to be able to do this. But it is for this reason I believe that the UK market is struggling. However, I am not seeing the demise in reality, on a fine summers day (when they happen) at a weekend col regs become a necessity as you weave your way through the Solent chaos.

Yep. Sterling is in a flat spin, having lost 5% of its value against the euro in the last month. The end is in sight.

 

[Tranona]

Not read all the comments here (seems to be an area of great interest) but the exchange rate needs to be also considered. The price of mass produced yachts both new and those only a few years old in the med offer great value. I am in the process of a purchase and looking for 2010 benedufbavjenneauarea which is not ex-charter (wish the search engines would give you this filter) and there are some great deals to be had when you find them. Also the weather here is rubbish and cost of parking is double that of the med. However, the advantage of owning in the UK is you can look out and upwards, if the sun is out, jump in the car. The answer for me is to do both so will be looking for a smaller quality British boat of some vintage to park on the south coast and have the benedufbavjenneauarea ready for my summer "extended" vacations. I appreciate I am fortunate to be able to do this. But it is for this reason I believe that the UK market is struggling. However, I am not seeing the demise in reality, on a fine summers day (when they happen) at a weekend col regs become a necessity as you weave your way through the Solent chaos.

While the exchange rate changes have a direct effect on immediate purchases of secondhand goods while they exist they have a much moire limited and slower effect on newly manufactured products for the reasons I explained earlier. Big differentials don't last for long - it is only 3 years since our UK market was stripped by Europeans taking advantage of the weakness of sterling. Buying in Euroland is good this year but if you are thinking long term you will win and lose. In the 10 years I had my boat in Greece I "suffered" both scenarios and a fall in the value of the £ can have a big effect on your running and living costs if you have to buy euros. Another downside that you will no doubt experience is that the market for secondhand boats in Greece is even more tough than the UK as it depends primarily on non resident buyers and you can end up with a depreciating asset 1000 miles away which you can't sell or use.

So by all means take advantage of the seeming low prices now but remember in the long run your annual costs will dwarf your purchase price. Also suggest you rethink your aversion to ex charter boats. Just because a boat is privately owned does not mean it is well looked after or better. Keep an open mind - a well maintained, regularly used boat is often better than one that sits around 11 months of the year in the hot Med sun!

 

[wully1]

I wonder how much boat prices are additionally depressed by a rotten summer like this one, and people thinking "If it's going to be like this from now on I'm having a deck saloon boat you can steer from inside

Fixed it for you....

Im constantly amused by the number of folk who buy med boats then have miserable summers in the UK...

 

[JumbleDuck]

Yep. Sterling is in a flat spin, having lost 5% of its value against the euro in the last month.

Or, to put it another way, the euro is in a flat spin, having lost 10% of its value against Sterling in the last year.