North Wales Berthing & Mooring options/Realistic Passage Planning

[Salt'n'shaken]

I'm planning on upgrading the engine on my 8m bilge Keeler to a 14hp Beta from a 1GM10. The ability to get home that bit quicker when time is limited, especially against a tide is very appealing.

You'll always be limited by hull speed, but a bilge Keeler with a decent engine is hard to beat in inshore British waters IMO.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Bilge keelers seem thin on the ground in our price range. Have they dropped out of favour? Usually see a bunch of old ones in harbours, 70's/80's.

Are other types of keel suitable for soft grounding? Can't imagine a fin keel being up to it, but this is where I have almost zero knowledge.

Have a look at Southerlies with a lifting keel.

Something like this could fit the bill
Southerly 115

Or this
Southerly 100 for sale UK, Southerly boats for sale, Southerly used boat sales, Southerly Sailing Yachts For Sale Southerly 100 - Apollo Duck

Bear in mind these are old boats and won't seem as plush as a 10 year old or less, Hanse or Beneteau

 

[salad]

Have a look at Southerlies with a lifting keel.

Something like this could fit the bill
Southerly 115

Or this
Southerly 100 for sale UK, Southerly boats for sale, Southerly used boat sales, Southerly Sailing Yachts For Sale Southerly 100 - Apollo Duck

Bear in mind these are old boats and won't seem as plush as a 10 year old or less, Hanse or Beneteau

They look similar to the Moody Eclipse. Any relation? It's a nice design and seems to offer good weather protection.

I was looking for something newer ideally. I've not fixed a budget, but didn't want to go in too deep for a first boat, so around £40k seems about right. Southerly are one of the "quality" marques are they not?

I spotted these two just now. Mass produced to be sure, but appear in good condition. Step through transoms are nice to have especially if we opt for a swinging mooring. I just find myself imagining needing more tankage then a lot of these smaller girls offer again, especially important if on a swinging mooring.

2003 Hunter Legend 326 Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

2002 Hunter Legend 306 Sloop for sale - YachtWorld

 

[Fr J Hackett]

They look similar to the Moody Eclipse. Any relation? It's a nice design and seems to offer good weather protection.

I was looking for something newer ideally. I've not fixed a budget, but didn't want to go in too deep for a first boat, so around £40k seems about right. Southerly are one of the "quality" marques are they not?

I spotted these two just now. Mass produced to be sure, but appear in good condition. Step through transoms are nice to have especially if we opt for a swinging mooring. I just find myself imagining needing more tankage then a lot of these smaller girls offer again, especially important if on a swinging mooring.

2003 Hunter Legend 326 Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

2002 Hunter Legend 306 Sloop for sale - YachtWorld

Very different to the eclipse and hunter the southerly is a lifting keel and these were made at a time when Northshore were arguably at the top of their game. They should be solidly built yachts with well constructed interiors but old.

 

[ridgy]

I think a couple of skippered charters in the solent would be very informative.

Spend a few days on this and see how you get on and get some quality advice from the skipper:
Charter Fleet - Yacht Charter

 

[Tranona]

We all kind of like the same things so it's not really a problem. Finding anchorage and going on the beach, fishing, cooking and eating what we catch, coastal foraging and potting, maybe some watersports, play time in a tender etc. Kids dont get sea sick at all and have been out to sea. My other half does, but she has plenty of magic pills.

This is one of the difficulties as we'd really like the accommodation and experience of sailing a yacht, but could do with a motor boat for other stuff! I suppose theres always a bilge keeler with a larger tender?

I bought my first boat (well built it as one did in those days) a 19' Sea Wych when my children were 4 and 8. We live literally 15 minutes from where it was moored so we used it and the 26' that replaced it 4 years later a lot doing just that sort of thing. however in the 10 years or so before the kids went off on their own interests the number of times we actually achieved that sort of ideal was tiny - but well remembered - paddling at Studland while dried out on the sands, weekend in Yarmouth with the elder one aged 12, lunch stop in Chapmans Pool, overnight in Lulworth leaning against the wall in Lyme Regis with passages round Portland Bill, catching more mackerel than we could possibly eat one afternoon in the middle of the bay...sort of running out now. We did of course have lots of other pleasant days, but those Enid Blyton type experiences are rare. Many more times when the weather did not play ball or the kids wanted to do something else.

TBH as I suggested earlier a better way to get those kind of experiences is to charter. Both my daughters came out to Corfu where we kept our next boat (as a charter boat) and both said they had more boat related fun in a week than in the earlier years in Poole. Give it a try - you will find out whether you and your kids like the idea of sailing and you will come away with a much clearer idea of what you want out of a boat.

 

[V1701]

For example, this looks in good nick. Does it belong to anyone here?

Westerly Fulmar for sale UK, Westerly boats for sale, Westerly used boat sales, Westerly Sailing Yachts For Sale 1997 Westerly Fulmar 33 - Bilge keel - Apollo Duck

I wonder what the story is there - all that money thrown at an older boat and now it's up for sale. Normally anybody doing that would fully intend to keep it for a long time because you never get back what put in to a boat. I'd be surprised if they get anywhere near £55k (which is probably not far off what they paid for the boat plus what they've spent) but a great boat for someone with all those new(ish) goodies...

 

[V1701]

I think given where you live, having kids to consider and given wind/weather/tides you'd be surprised (horrified) how little use you'd get out of a boat on the coast, whether it be sail or motor. Sorry but this is the reality. If you haven't tried narrowboating I would give it a go, a mate of mine recently retired and bought one that I helped him move from Reading to Northampton over a week. I was very pleasantly surprised what a lovely trip it was. No tides to worry about and you can go in almost any weather, stop just about anywhere and marinas are less expensive. There's a lot to like, their main concern at the moment is lack of water! Prices for them are starting to become a bit more sensible after the seller's market of the last few years and they seem to hold their value if looked after.
Good luck whatever you decide...

 

[salad]

I think given where you live, having kids to consider and given wind/weather/tides you'd be surprised (horrified) how little use you'd get out of a boat on the coast, whether it be sail or motor. Sorry but this is the reality. If you haven't tried narrowboating I would give it a go, a mate of mine recently retired and bought one that I helped him move from Reading to Northampton over a week. I was very pleasantly surprised what a lovely trip it was. No tides to worry about and you can go in almost any weather, stop just about anywhere and marinas are less expensive. There's a lot to like, their main concern at the moment is lack of water! Prices for them are starting to become a bit more sensible after the seller's market of the last few years and they seem to hold their value if looked after.
Good luck whatever you decide...

We think we'd manage up to circa 63 days over a season, with the boat then moving to hard standing over winter. We're not totally stuck with it anyway, if it didn't work for some reason, can keep it a year and move on. It's an itch that needs to be scratched and I think we'd regret it if we didnt do it. Considered canals in detail before but not really for us, although I understand why they are so popular.

Lack of water is a serious issue all over at the moment. Some friends of ours own a camp site which has a natural spring as its water supply. The ground water is so low, they are facing temporary closure if they dont get rain soon. In peak season...not good.

That Westerly is curious isn't it. I'm guessing the vendor is rather upset about letting her go because that refit has taken a lot of time and effort. I'm tempted to make an offer on it actually.

 

[TSB240]

I have been North Wales based for a very long time.

If you are looking for a Marina berth you are unlikely to get into any at Conwy, Deganwy,Port Dinorwic, Victoria Dock Caernarfon or Pwllheli with a large boat 30 foot plus.
I would contact David O Neil the main man of Caernarfon Harbour Trust. They operate all of the moorings on the Strait from Menai Bridge to Caernarfon. They can also place a private mooring for you in certain locations.
Moorings at Menai Bridge are run by Anglesey Council. I don't have a contact but the Menai Bridge piermaster may have a contact number.


Your proposed trip times and routes cut ut some of the best places to visit. You have ignored the possibility of anchoring.
This is essential to get the best out of the North West.
You and your family could easily be in some of the best sheltered spots around Ynys Mon in a couple of hours.
Learning how to use the tides and when to avoid the overfalls is essential.
A good contact for you if you are still going the mobo route is Bruce Kennedy on the Mobo Forum.
You would get a better informed view of current availability by joining the closed face book group Sailing and Cruising Wales.
Facebook tends to have a younger user profile than the ancient mariners on here who perhaps learnt their trade 20 years or more around here!
Trying the area out and getting some experience and qualifications could be done using the sailing and powerboat training companies based out of either Conwy or Port Dinorwic.
The oldest salt on these forums works for Seawake.
Steve

 

[Graham376]

Are other types of keel suitable for soft grounding? Can't imagine a fin keel being up to it, but this is where I have almost zero knowledge.

I'm quite happy to dry our low aspect fin keeler out alongside but wouldn't want to do ir with one of the more modern high aspect deep keel ones.

 

[SaltyC]

An interesting thread and a decision that does not have right or wrong answers. I live slightly North of Leeds and opted for the Cumbrian Coast, Whitehaven or Maryport are generally 2 1/2 hours (w.e o Bank Holiday Fridays on the A66)
Why not Hartlepool only 45 mins? The East Coast is up and down with tidal restrictions.
West Coast, Tidal restrictions and up to 9m tides - BUT with a week, even in a Flappy, you can visit Scotland, Go 'foreign' to the IOM even Northern Ireland - all once you are confident.
It would be beneficial to have a boat of whatever type that could take the ground.

Yes, the Irish Sea can be challenging but also benign, pick your times.

The variety is great, the people friendly and the prices are good value.

 

[Concerto]

I wonder what the story is there - all that money thrown at an older boat and now it's up for sale. Normally anybody doing that would fully intend to keep it for a long time because you never get back what put in to a boat. I'd be surprised if they get anywhere near £55k (which is probably not far off what they paid for the boat plus what they've spent) but a great boat for someone with all those new(ish) goodies...

My Westerly Fulmar built in 1980 has now set me back very close to the same amount, but I doubt if I could get more than £35,000, so it is well over priced. I know it is 17 years newer than mine but a 8 years ago the last Fulmar built was sold close to £40,000.

Concerto at the Boat Show 2021

 

[Concerto]

You might find the video I have just loaded on YouTube interesting as it covers from the Humber to Eyemouth and will give you a taste of the coast.

Round Britain part 2

 

[Dukester52]

Going back to your earlier posts - I wouldn't let people put you off Conwy/Deganwy. I live in Leeds, and I've based one of my boats there for many years. If you avoid the rush hours on Friday and Sunday by setting off a little later (say 7pm) it usually takes me 2hrs-ish doing the speed limit. With the M62/M56/A55 I find it a much easier drive than queuing all the way to Whitby, for example! I've also sailed out of Brough Haven on the Humber, about an hour away, along the M62, and find that very pleasant too (the Humber Yawl Club are a very friendly bunch, with many members from the Leeds area). Only if you decide to go the sailing route though.

The Clyde is lovely, I'm based in Kip there, but you're talking a 5 hour drive which might not be ideal with family?

 

[salad]

An interesting thread and a decision that does not have right or wrong answers. I live slightly North of Leeds and opted for the Cumbrian Coast, Whitehaven or Maryport are generally 2 1/2 hours (w.e o Bank Holiday Fridays on the A66)
Why not Hartlepool only 45 mins? The East Coast is up and down with tidal restrictions.
West Coast, Tidal restrictions and up to 9m tides - BUT with a week, even in a Flappy, you can visit Scotland, Go 'foreign' to the IOM even Northern Ireland - all once you are confident.
It would be beneficial to have a boat of whatever type that could take the ground.

Yes, the Irish Sea can be challenging but also benign, pick your times.

The variety is great, the people friendly and the prices are good value.

From where I am Hartlepool is 1hr 40 to 2hrs and Maryport, Fleetwood or Whitehaven are about 3 hours. Nothing is exactly convenient unfortunately, aside from Goole.

Do you find you get a lot of rain in Cumbria? My cousins are always moaning about rain and they live in Preston. Seems to rain much more over there than where we are east of the pennines.

 

[salad]

Going back to your earlier posts - I wouldn't let people put you off Conwy/Deganwy. I live in Leeds, and I've based one of my boats there for many years. If you avoid the rush hours on Friday and Sunday by setting off a little later (say 7pm) it usually takes me 2hrs-ish doing the speed limit. With the M62/M56/A55 I find it a much easier drive than queuing all the way to Whitby, for example! I've also sailed out of Brough Haven on the Humber, about an hour away, along the M62, and find that very pleasant too (the Humber Yawl Club are a very friendly bunch, with many members from the Leeds area). Only if you decide to go the sailing route though.

The Clyde is lovely, I'm based in Kip there, but you're talking a 5 hour drive which might not be ideal with family?

Thanks for the heads up on North Wales. Yes, Whitby can be a nightmare at peak times, not to mention extremely busy.

Kip was our first choice when we first started looking into getting a new boat. Most of our previous boating (just a rib) was done around the Mull and it's absolutely beautiful. Kip is incredible and fairly convenient to get to, since you can drive, fly or get the train. 5 hrs in the car, I'd just break it up I suspect. We've pretty much ruled out rushing 2 day weekend jaunts as nowhere is convenient enough, not really.

The cruising looks fantastic. The only slight downsides for me, is that the Clyde has poor fishing these days, some think it shouldnt be fished at all, the weather is almost completely random and its relatively expensive for where it is. At £350/m annual I'd have done it, but at a shade under £500...hmm. If I had more time to cruise i.e. retired, I would definitely be looking at spending a season or three there as it would be much better value.

How do you find the convenience of maintaining your boat in these locations, do you tend to have the yard do everything or more inclined to DIY? The maintenance side feels like a major factor, as you can't really casually drive 5 hours to replace a bit of silicon, so I'm guessing there is a lot of planning involved, particularly in Kip/Conwy, vs say Pompey or Plymouth, where everything is on the doorstep?

 

[salad]

You might find the video I have just loaded on YouTube interesting as it covers from the Humber to Eyemouth and will give you a taste of the coast.

Round Britain part 2

I fully intend to binge watch your series. The only thing I cannot agree on is Britain being round. It clearly is not.

 

[SaltyC]

How do I answer that (Honestly)?

Yes it does tend to be a little damper (and cooler) than the Vale of York, BUT! with the main west going rain bearing air stream off the coast is blue skies, look East and inland over the Fells and Black clouds. So not tooooo bad.

The main problem is tidal access and a predominantly W /SW air stream meaning close hauled / beat out of the Solway.

If you need in depth analysis please PM me.

 

[Dukester52]

How do you find the convenience of maintaining your boat in these locations, do you tend to have the yard do everything or more inclined to DIY? The maintenance side feels like a major factor, as you can't really casually drive 5 hours to replace a bit of silicon, so I'm guessing there is a lot of planning involved, particularly in Kip/Conwy, vs say Pompey or Plymouth, where everything is on the doorstep?

DIY can be a bit of an issue TBH!

With North Wales we use a trusted professional in the area who normally (and kindly!) arranges work for us, if he can't do it. That said, we often go to Conwy for the day.

With Kip we have more of a project boat... we bought her there and were actually going to bring her back to Brough until we saw the Clyde! We'll often (less often that we'd like) spend a few days on the boat and do a little DIY while we're there. But I also use the local yard, and there are more facilities available at Fairlie and Largs etc.

I'd say there's everything you could need local to both locations.

Brough/Humber Yawl Club is a sailing club, so we all dig in together to maintain our own boats and the premises.