North Wales Berthing & Mooring options/Realistic Passage Planning

[salad]

Hello everyone,

After a lot of discussion at home and listening to feedback kindly supplied by members of this forum, we have reluctantly decided that due to the limited time we have available and the travel times involved to reach a boat, a sailing yacht is going to be too restrictive for us. Realistically, on a 35 footer on a good day, we might make 6 knots, which doesn't get us very far in a day long round trip. We've realised sailing is really something for when the kids have flown the nest and work commitments are not as they are now, so we can regularly take a trip of 2 weeks and actually see something, enjoying the leisurely journey. We're now going back to sort of where we originally started a couple of years ago and looking at motor boats in the 7 to 8m range, moored closer to home. Diesel inboard is the firm choice, as jerry cans for a 200 litre tank is unappealing, despite the initial capital saving for petrol boats.

Our closest marina is Hartlepool and it's about 1hr 30 mins away, give or take. There are some areas of interest on the east coast, but I'm not sure how long it would keep us entertained, so we're now also looking into north Wales.

What I am hoping someone may be able to assist with is whether or not I've researched properly in terms of moorings and berthing options in north Wales?

Conwy is 2hrs 20 mins from me on a good run and the chain marina there seems to work out at about £3,800 per year, with a council swinging mooring coming in at around £700. I can't say I'm particularly attracted to swinging moorings, mostly on account of having to dry out tenders after day trip, but at that price, it's hard to discount completely.

Other marina's I'm aware of so far are Pwlheli, which is £3,200 or so and Holyhead, which only has fuel in cans, not my thing when it comes to motorboating.

Have I missed any possibilities for berthing/mooring in that part of Wales?

In terms of cruising over the school holidays, if we can average around 16 knots (optimistic?), it seems the possibilities are quite extensive in that area. Holy Island and Anglesey being achievable over a weekend. For longer holidays like half term, I've looked into some very basic coastal passage planning and came up with the following as an example cruising holiday. I'd be delighted if someone that knows the area could advise me whether it's even remotely realistic?

Day 1: Conwy to Pwlheli (via Menai)- 68nm, 4 hrs
Day 2: Pwlheli to Aberystwth - 37nm, 2hrs 20
Day 3: Aberystwyth to Milford Haven - 86nm, 5hrs 20 (this is ambitious, but I could not locate anywhere else to take on fuel/water)
Day 4: Milford Haven to Ilfracombe - 54nm, 3hrs 20 (again, ambitious, I imagine there is quite a current in this area)
Day 5: Head back the same way

Total trip allowing for rigging the boat and other shennanigans, I'd probably allow 10-12 days. Semi displacement hull with an LOA of 8m or just under. Inboard, 200hp. 200litre tank which ideally I would not run below 50% in terms of planning the passage. I'd carry 10% reserve fuel in a can also.

This is technically our third boat, but would be our first proper boat, so to speak, the others being ribs. I am a novice (which is obvious I'm sure). Passage planning is new to me also, but I understand why it's done and to an extent, the safety margins involved.

Any advice from experienced boaters would be most gratefully received.

 

[Concerto]

Talking about marinas to get a permanent berth in North Wales is not something you just ask and get immediately. A friend who has been renovating a Fulmar like mine (9.7m) after being ashore for 4 years in Pwlheli and is due to launch later this month or early in August. His problem is they have 60 boats on the waiting list and I know Conwy also has a waiting list. So before deciding where you want to berth, see what is available before you buy a boat.

 

[salad]

Talking about marinas to get a permanent berth in North Wales is not something you just ask and get immediately. A friend who has been renovating a Fulmar like mine (9.7m) after being ashore for 4 years in Pwlheli and is due to launch later this month or early in August. His problem is they have 60 boats on the waiting list and I know Conwy also has a waiting list. So before deciding where you want to berth, see what is available before you buy a boat.

This is exactly why I posted the question. Thank you.

Now the question remains, why do the marina's etc not put this on their web sites?! It just wastes everyones time.

 

[Concerto]

This is exactly why I posted the question. Thank you.

Now the question remains, why do the marina's etc not put this on their web sites?! It just wastes everyones time.

If you telephone them and speak to a person, you will find this out. The lists can reduce fairly quickly at the end of March when some people move their boats to a different marina, but are on a number of marinas list and get removed from those as well.

 

[salad]

If you telephone them and speak to a person, you will find this out. The lists can reduce fairly quickly at the end of March when some people move their boats to a different marina, but are on a number of marinas list and get removed from those as well.

I can't remember the last time I made an actual phone call, so that option didn't immediately spring to mind I admit. I appreciate your insight on move dates. I guess I didn't appreciate just how busy north wales is on this side of things, especially considering the cost of that particular marina, as it really isn't cheap by any measure.

 

[savageseadog]

There are no Marina options in N Wales at the moment. You may be able to get a mooring in Holyhead, Conwy or Menai Strait. The other options in NW England would be Liverpool Marina, Fleetwood, Preston,Whitehaven, Maryport.

 

[Concerto]

Part of the problem is there are a limited number of places to moor in N Wales and a large number of people within an easy drive away (Manchester, Stoke on Trent plus surrounding areas). When I asked about Conwy Marina at the boat show, I was shocked at how much they can charge compared to my home marina in Chatham. It was £900 more per anum and instead of access 24/7 it is limited to HW+-2½ hours, plus the waiting list.

Your best bet would be to moor at somewhere like Hartlepool and you would be surprised at how many locations are within reach of a powerboat in a day. Only a matter of weeks ago I sailed along this coast for the first time and was quite impressed.

 

[ridgy]

Other marinas not mentioned are Victoria Dock and Port Dinowic, not sure of waiting lists etc.

For the amount of money all that would cost, if sailing is really your thing and seeing places then charter e.g. south coast,. Brittany etc and have a rib for local buggering about.

 

[salad]

Other marinas not mentioned are Victoria Dock and Port Dinowic, not sure of waiting lists etc.

For the amount of money all that would cost, if sailing is really your thing and seeing places then charter e.g. south coast,. Brittany etc and have a rib for local buggering about.

I'd seen Victoria Dock but forgot to mention it. Port Dinowic is new to me and looks like a good option if theres a berth..!

 

[salad]

Part of the problem is there are a limited number of places to moor in N Wales and a large number of people within an easy drive away (Manchester, Stoke on Trent plus surrounding areas). When I asked about Conwy Marina at the boat show, I was shocked at how much they can charge compared to my home marina in Chatham. It was £900 more per anum and instead of access 24/7 it is limited to HW+-2½ hours, plus the waiting list.

Your best bet would be to moor at somewhere like Hartlepool and you would be surprised at how many locations are within reach of a powerboat in a day. Only a matter of weeks ago I sailed along this coast for the first time and was quite impressed.

I've been looking at potential anchorage up and down the coast near Hartlepool. It's the closest to home, but we want to stay overnight and the marina has quite a lot of nightlife, so perhaps not ideal with young children.

I'm going to have to compromise on something at some point.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

You don't say where you are located but as a guess somewhere in the Leeds Sheffield Manchester triangle which is not ideal for reaching "attractive" cruising areas, I used to think I had a difficult time living in north Staffordshire when I kept my boats in Plymouth.
I was never attracted to north Wales as a place but it does offer some good local cruising and you would find a lot of power boats in the area and marinas you mention but I do know ( friends who keep and kept boats there) that it is difficult to get a permanent berth and the marinas have very few visitors berths and can be tidal and restricted access. Probably the easiest place to get a berth / mooring would be a swinging mooring in the Menai. You can forget about getting in Dinorwic or the Victoria dock.
It very much depends on how often you want to use your boat, every weekend? Are you prepared to join the traffic on Friday night and Sundays for the return, North Wales in the summer is a nightmare. My advice would be to look further afield and accept a long journey but I appreciate with children that could be difficult.
Is Hull an option?

 

[Graham376]

Conwy is 2hrs 20 mins from me on a good run and the chain marina there seems to work out at about £3,800 per year, with a council swinging mooring coming in at around £700. I can't say I'm particularly attracted to swinging moorings, mostly on account of having to dry out tenders after day trip, but at that price, it's hard to discount completely.

We were based in Conwy for around 12 years and still live down the road when home. Not sure where you live but travel time could be optimistic, A55 and M56 on Friday and Sunday evenings can be very slow progress. There's a water taxi to the swing moorings if you don't want to use tender, safer as well with speed of tide there.

 

[salad]

You don't say where you are located but as a guess somewhere in the Leeds Sheffield Manchester triangle which is not ideal for reaching "attractive" cruising areas, I used to think I had a difficult time living in north Staffordshire when I kept my boats in Plymouth.
I was never attracted to north Wales as a place but it does offer some good local cruising and you would find a lot of power boats in the area and marinas you mention but I do know ( friends who keep and kept boats there) that it is difficult to get a permanent berth and the marinas have very few visitors berths and can be tidal and restricted access. Probably the easiest place to get a berth / mooring would be a swinging mooring in the Menai. You can forget about getting in Dinorwic or the Victoria dock.
It very much depends on how often you want to use your boat, every weekend? Are you prepared to join the traffic on Friday night and Sundays for the return, North Wales in the summer is a nightmare. My advice would be to look further afield and accept a long journey but I appreciate with children that could be difficult.
Is Hull an option?

We are just outside of Leeds. I can't be certain, but it must be the absolute worst place in the entire country to be a boat owner unless canals are your thing. ?

The traffic is something I was in the process of looking into as it makes a huge difference. A clear run it's 1hr 40 to Hartlepool, 2hrs 20 to Conwy and another 20 minutes or so for Dinowic. I'm hoping Google Maps can give more realistic figures if I play with departure times.

I think we would typically leave on Friday afternoon and return Saturday night or Sunday evening on say two weekends a month. Weekend use is quite important to get the use out of the boat I think. It would be incredibly annoying to have a boat afloat and not be able to use it except in school holidays (does anyone do it that way?) Our school operates slightly different holidays to most others, which gives us a bit of advantage on a few of the longer breaks but for weekends we're stuck in the jams with everyone else.

A swinging mooring wouldn't suit our circumstances, so we might be resigned to waiting lists, or buying a boat that is already on a berth in the target area.

Hull isn't an option as it's too far inside the estuary for my taste. Was ideally looking for somewhere that has clear water rather than the muddy stuff we get over on the East coast. I gather Conwy also has a lot of mud, but it has access to a wider variety of cruising.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

We are just outside of Leeds. I can't be certain, but it must be the absolute worst place in the entire country to be a boat owner unless canals are your thing. ?

The traffic is something I was in the process of looking into as it makes a huge difference. A clear run it's 1hr 40 to Hartlepool, 2hrs 20 to Conwy and another 20 minutes or so for Dinowic. I'm hoping Google Maps can give more realistic figures if I play with departure times.

I think we would typically leave on Friday afternoon and return Saturday night or Sunday evening on say two weekends a month. Weekend use is quite important to get the use out of the boat I think. It would be incredibly annoying to have a boat afloat and not be able to use it except in school holidays (does anyone do it that way?) Our school operates slightly different holidays to most others, which gives us a bit of advantage on a few of the longer breaks but for weekends we're stuck in the jams with everyone else.

A swinging mooring wouldn't suit our circumstances, so we might be resigned to waiting lists, or buying a boat that is already on a berth in the target area.

I would not rely on google to confirm your travel time, check it out in real time I guess if you had done it yesterday to Conway you could have been looking at double your expectation.

 

[salad]

I would not rely on google to confirm your travel time, check it out in real time I guess if you had done it yesterday to Conway you could have been looking at double your expectation.

I used the departure time option on Google maps just now and it came up with up to 4 hours from our house to Conwy, departing at 3:15, so you're on the money.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I used the departure time option on Google maps just now and it came up with up to 4 hours from our house to Conwy, departing at 3:15, so you're on the money.

It will be longer but you might have a more consistent journey into East Anglia and the Orwell also a better chance of a marina berth and without doubt a better cruising area and weather also the option of sailing over power boating

 

[Graham376]

I used the departure time option on Google maps just now and it came up with up to 4 hours from our house to Conwy, departing at 3:15, so you're on the money.

I can be on our boat in Portugal in less time than that Joking apart, don't underestimate A55 traffic, we can see it from home and Friday afternoons and evenings and Sunday evenings, frequently at a standstill. Remember also, Conwy and Deganwy marinas both have cills so entry and exit restricted to around HW+/- 3 hours which limits sailing plans.

 

[salad]

It will be longer but you might have a more consistent journey into East Anglia and the Orwell also a better chance of a marina berth and without doubt a better cruising area and weather also the option of sailing over power boating

That side of the country is just a bit less appealing to me in boating terms. I love Norfolk as a county, but the coastline is pretty sparse in terms of marina's. I think I noticed one or two? Ipswitch is a really long way away at nearly 200 miles. Around north wales are lots of little bays and so on which look like they may be good fun to explore on a MB. For sailing I think we'd need much more time than we have but thats OK, as it gives me time to get the training and something to look forward to in retirement.

If you don't mind me asking, what makes you favour that part of the UK for cruising over north Wales?

 

[salad]

I can be on our boat in Portugal in less time than that Joking apart, don't underestimate A55 traffic, we can see it from home and Friday afternoons and evenings and Sunday evenings, frequently at a standstill. Remember also, Conwy and Deganwy marinas both have cills so entry and exit restricted to around HW+/- 3 hours which limits sailing plans.

I bet it wouldn't be far off!

I am also considering Denmark as an option as it really isn't too dissimilar in terms of travel time, plus boats can be imported from Sweden easily. I know Denmark quite well, too.

This is all brilliant information, from all of you. I appreciate it a lot.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

That side of the country is just a bit less appealing to me in boating terms. I love Norfolk as a county, but the coastline is pretty sparse in terms of marina's. I think I noticed one or two? Ipswitch is a really long way away at nearly 200 miles. Around north wales are lots of little bays and so on which look like they may be good fun to explore on a MB. For sailing I think we'd need much more time than we have but thats OK, as it gives me time to get the training and something to look forward to in retirement.

If you don't mind me asking, what makes you favour that part of the UK for cruising over north Wales?

I spent 3 years with a Sailing boat in the Orwell and a 200 mile commute and didn't by any means see everything that their was to see, I think you might be missing a trick there.

It's far more attractive, available, unrestricted better weather better amenities and at the risk of being shot welcoming. It wasn't my first choice but I went to the East Coast for a change and to visit places where I spent my childhood summers, overall I wasn't disappointed but had I continued to sail ( another story) I would have moved on either back to Devon / Cornwall, the West Coast of Scotland or France.