Niaive and out of pocket

[gsh1]

If you don't mind, I'd like to sound off about a long standing saga that won't end.

Due to my young family, last year I hardly used my boat at all and as a consequence decided that it would be best to sell the boat and buy another in a couple of years. I advertised the boat on the internet and fairly quickly attracted a buyer.

This is were the tale starts to turn sour. The buyer is Dutch and at the end of March came over to view the boat. Lot's of correspondance later we agreed on a greatly reduced price based on the boat being poorly maintained (I have to concede this point as my attention hadn't been on the boat). A Dutch Waterways contract was then signed by both of us with all aspects of the boat being "as inspected". The deposit was paid followed by an interim payment totalling 60% a few weeks later.

He was due to bring the balance in cash when collecting the boat. The day before he phoned to say he couldn't get the cash in time from his bank, and would I accept an electronic transfer in the same way as the other payments. I agreed. As I had no need to see him in person, I went to work as normal on the day he arrived.

In actual fact he did have the cash on him that day. Anyway to cut a long story short(er), he left the boatyard with the boat and the cash.

I have since spoken to him and he is stating that because there are things that don't work and are not to his liking, he is only prepared to give me 3k instead of the actual 5.35k. I can either accept or go to the courts (remember, Dutch contract = Dutch court!! Aaghh!)

In the forum's considered opinion, what are my options. I want to end this nightmare, but can't really afford to lose this ammount of money.

Graham

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[ccscott49]

I think you'll find that dutch law will not side with him, he agreed the sum, he should pay, stand by your guns and get a letter off to him, from your solicitor stating this fact. This is a normal dutch trick, when buying anything, he has your boat and now wants to negotiate a discount. The dutch are tight wads, they always want it as cheap as possible, he may just be playing dutch games!

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[colvic]

I second that: sent a weatherfax system to a Dutchman living in Ipswich after several assurances money would be electronically transfered. Almost two years later still awaiting funds.

Go after him with a solicitors letter, won't cost a lot but could well get things going. Or how about DFDS Seaways and a trip over one weekend?


Phil

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[petersto]

When you hear stories like this you realise that there are people who work to different ethics to the rest of us. My word for this would be stealing plain and simple. However how do you redeem the situation. You mention the Waterways contract (I havent got a clue what this is) did it mention the money on there. Also how do you know he had the money if you werent there, did someone at the place where he picked up the boat witness he had the money. Would they be prepared to witness the fact. Is the money mentioned anywhere in your correspondence. I would definately see a solicitor whats the price of advice £50, sound it out and make a decision from there. It almost makes you feel like finding the boat and returning some out of date distress devices.

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[mtb]

Re: serves you right

Sorry to say that
but come on, he's played you !!
Get over there locate the boat get a Dutch Layer who should get it straight in court .
After years of dealing with those tight scheming ***** I only send stuff out only and I mean only when the money has cleared here in my bank or the cash is in my hands.

Cheers
Mick

<hr width=100% size=1>One day son all this will be yours #### off I dont want it

 

[ccscott49]

You will also need to take a pipe wrench with you, to prise the money out of his hands, if that fails, bray the b.....d with it! They really are the most difficult buggers to get money out of, he's laughing at you, tee hee screwed another gullible englishman!!

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[squidge]

repo it , if he dose not want to pay the price (as per the contract ?)then go and get it back,shoe or clogg will be on the other foot.
Im sailing over in August if you want a lift./forums/images/icons/wink.gif

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[warrior40]

Re: serves you right

Yes, sorry to say, but seems you were a tat bit stupid to let the boat go, 'whilst you were at work', and without knowing 100 % that you had the money you were expecting.
If it was me, I would seriously, get over there with my spare key and take the boat back, simple as that!! I mean it!
The RYA should be able to put you in touch with a marine lawyer, who will have specialist knowledge in this field, or, at least more knowledge than us lot! I believe there is a very good female one in southampton.

Good luck, and sorry.

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[mickshep]

Re: serves you right

In your position I'd go over, reclaim the vessel, sail her home then deduct the cost from the money recieved, and I'd charge an hourly rate for the return journey as well, let him chew on that. All in MHO of course, I'm no lawyer. Good luck Mike.

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[Peppermint]

Re: It\'s genetic

The Dutch are a charming people but they do like a bit extra out of a deal. I've dealt with them for about twenty years and a price is a bit of a moving target. Their legal system is very fair, no more expensive than ours, and to find a lawyer who speaks perfect english would take about 10 minutes. Even better would be too find an English lawyer with an associate in Holland. That would stop you suspecting the Dutch lawyer of stitching you up. But you must go after this bloke.



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[graham]

Do you still have current insurance for the boat?If you do many policies include legal cover which may entitle you to free advise.

Also if you are an RYA member try them for advise.

I think advise about going over and repossesing the boat are more likely to land you in a Dutch jail than anywhere else.

Get legal advise from a marine specialist even if you have to pay for it.Maybe you could ask the forum for recommendations of a good marine lawyer.

Best of Luck I hope the outcome is good.

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[gsh1]

Thanks for all the general advise, this particular dutchman is a policeman so trying to get the boat back might be the wrong thing to do!

I will persue this legally and, as Graham mentions, if any of you know a good maritime lawyer then please let me know.

Thanks

Graham

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[Peppermint]

Re:I\'d consider a letter to his superiors

In Holland as anywhere the police are expected to be above this sort of thing.

Take soundings at the Dutch Embassy.

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[Mirelle]

In matters of commerce, the fault of the Dutch

is giving too little and taking too much.

Stratford Canning, British Foreign Secretary, 1819.

Write to all the Dutch yachting magazines and post this story (in English, they all read it), naming the creep, on any Dutch yachting website.

Dutch lawyers cost a fortune, as the fellow well knows.

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[Metabarca]

If he's a policeman, might it not be worthwhile sending a letter to his superior officer? It shouldn't be too hard to find the name of some appropriate bigwig.

good luck!

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[duncan]

I don't understand the reference to niaive -
on the 5th April you asked the forum's opinion on the proposed sale and terms - everyone said initially 'get the cash or non revokable draft completion' before moving on to the issue of contract terms and legal.......
however from where you are now you should find an insurance policy where you have legal cover of some sort - your home insurance might do it - and get someone involved on your behalf.
I would personally write one further letter direct to him advising him that if you do not recieve the balance of the funds due under the contract within 30 days you will have no choice but to pass the matter over to legal redress and will not enter into any further correspondence.You might like to highlight that any and all costs incurred by you will form part of your claim against him. Apart from giving him time to reconsider and making him aware you are serious the letter should form the basis of your submission and shows the court that you have tried everything to be reasonable.

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[jonjo]

Re: He might win in court

Dutch contract law might be on his side if the contact you signed was covered by the Dutch HISWA sales process.

Unlike we Brits who list every conceivable piece of junk as "inventory" when selling a boat, the HISWA contract means if something is listed it must work otherwise the seller must rectify or lower the price prior to hand over.

Having purchased a yacht recently in Holland I think their process is much better.

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[Heckler]

Go and kick the shit out of him

and hang the consequences, take some boys from manchester with you and teach him the meaning of a manchester kiss, will be a lot cheaper than lawyers and the threat of some bodily harm will make him think twice about calling in his superiors in case they think of investigating why some crazy english are intent on causing bodily harm
stu

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[mtb]

Re: Go and kick the shit out of him

They carry side arm's over there !!.
I would have thought if he has not paid the agreed amount and taken the boat with out permission it's either theft or fraud. The deal was done here in the UK so cobblers to the Dutch iffy contract, mind if he used that tactic to fraudulently obtain goods then again illegal.
Have the plod been told .
Cheers
Mick

<hr width=100% size=1>One day son all this will be yours #### off I dont want it

 

[jonjo]

Re: Go and kick the shit out of him

> The deal was done here in the UK so cobblers to the Dutch iffy contract

A good contract will clarify which legal jurisdiction both parties agree to be subject to. The original poster needs to re-read what he signed.

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