Record for insurance claim delay?

[BertiesMum]

We are 33 weeks into an insurance claim. In July of last year we moored our boat at a fuel dock in a marina close to our home mooring. The owner of the marina served us with diesel from his pumps and inadvertently put 16 litres of diesel in our water tank.
From this point on has been an awful time for my husband and I. Both approaching 70 and wanting a quiet life!
Our insurers suggested the person who caused the problem correct it and claim through his public liability insurance. He did this after 5 tries to cleanse our boat with various chemical remedies. Eventually his insurer sent a marine surveyor who I'm sorry to say was not a very polite chap and demanded I remove the floor panels for him (my husband wasn't there as this surveyor arrived an hour earlier than arranged) he sniffed at a water sample and said pumping chlorine and Milton through our water system would solve our problem. Of course it didn't. After 3 more attempts to cleanse the boat (8 in total) we referred backbto our insurer. They then appointed a marine surveyor. On his first visit to our boat he declared that the complete water system tank, pipework, pump, calorifier and taps should be replaced . He took samples of water which he delivered to a laboratory in Norwich. Three weeks later he requested that a further sample be taken as the laboratory had lost the first ones. It is now 33 weeks since this accident happened. We think we are patient and understanding folk but now are at the end of our tether.
Suggestions please?

 

[Jim@sea]

Without giving details of my previous successful claims I would just say that 50 years ago I had a friend who was a Chartered Loss Assessor who told me that whenever anyone had a significant Insurance Claim they should use a Chartered Loss Assessor who would then argue with the Insurance Companies Chartered Loss Adjuster, In your case because you are unable to use your boat you should get an estimate to remove and replace the entire water system and send the estimate to the Insurance Company. also you should have your own water sample tested so you have the report to back up your claim for the need to have the water system replaced, it seems to me that the owner of the Marina who was negligent should be sent the estimate and given a month to pay and if no payment made issue a Small Claims Court action.
And move to another marina.

 

[Aquanaught]

As this is turning into a costly claim with the amount of replacement work I would suggest you should appoint your own surveyor to ensure all work is progressed and done correctly, to put your boat back into use and also preserve the value in your boat. Ask around friends in marina or area and find a surveyor who is recommended.

 

[Caladh]

I’m a bit confused when you say the marina @attendant “inadvertently” filled your water tank with diesel. I can only assume a) you or your partner were not there and b) the filler cap was marked as water ?

 

[Tranona]

We are 33 weeks into an insurance claim. In July of last year we moored our boat at a fuel dock in a marina close to our home mooring. The owner of the marina served us with diesel from his pumps and inadvertently put 16 litres of diesel in our water tank.
From this point on has been an awful time for my husband and I. Both approaching 70 and wanting a quiet life!
Our insurers suggested the person who caused the problem correct it and claim through his public liability insurance. He did this after 5 tries to cleanse our boat with various chemical remedies. Eventually his insurer sent a marine surveyor who I'm sorry to say was not a very polite chap and demanded I remove the floor panels for him (my husband wasn't there as this surveyor arrived an hour earlier than arranged) he sniffed at a water sample and said pumping chlorine and Milton through our water system would solve our problem. Of course it didn't. After 3 more attempts to cleanse the boat (8 in total) we referred backbto our insurer. They then appointed a marine surveyor. On his first visit to our boat he declared that the complete water system tank, pipework, pump, calorifier and taps should be replaced . He took samples of water which he delivered to a laboratory in Norwich. Three weeks later he requested that a further sample be taken as the laboratory had lost the first ones. It is now 33 weeks since this accident happened. We think we are patient and understanding folk but now are at the end of our tether.
Suggestions please?

Welcome to the forumThis seems an unusual claim. If your insurer is accepting the claim I am surprised you attempted to claim direct off the third party. The latter is invariably fraught with problems as it is up to you to prove first that they are negligent and what is appropriate recompense. There seems to be some disagreement amongst the "experts" as to what is needed put matters right but now from what you say your insurers have agreed in principle to replace the complete system. The lost sample is annoying, but I think at this point in time patience is what is needed.

It is worth noting that there is a big difference between claiming on your own all risks insurance and claiming direct on the third party and their insurer. The former is under the law of contract so all you have to do is show that the circumstances that resulted in the loss are covered by the policy. Your insurer seems to have accepted this. There may well be issues about what is needed to put it right, but your insurer is likely to be more accommodating. Claiming off a third party is under the law of torts where first you have to prove negligence (clear in this case) but generally third party insurers are tougher to deal with when it comes to putting things right - as you have discovered. You often need to have your "expert" to counter theirs.

I am not sure why your insurer initially directed you to the third party but now seems to have changed their mind but that is good for you so stick with it.

 

[Jim@sea]

Without giving details of my previous successful claims I would just say that 50 years ago I had a friend who was a Chartered Loss Assessor who told me that whenever anyone had a significant Insurance Claim they should use a Chartered Loss Assessor who would then argue with the Insurance Companies Chartered Loss Adjuster, In your case because you are unable to use your boat you should get an estimate to remove and replace the entire water system and send the estimate to the Insurance Company. also you should have your own water sample tested so you have the report to back up your claim for the need to have the water system replaced, it seems to me that the owner of the Marina who was negligent should be sent the estimate and given a month to pay and if no payment made issue a Small Claims Court action.
And move to another marina.

Also having a laboratory give a report on the quality of the water in the tank, i.e "unsuitable to drink" that could be classed as using an Expert Witness

 

[ashtead]

Have you tried speaking to the marine surveyor to ascertain when the result will be forthcoming? Hardly his fault some Norwich numpties lost the sample but it would appear your insurers have accepted liability but the samples are required to verify that the contamination remains? In essence finding out when results due should be priority. Your insurers may wish having paid out wish to pursue the negligent third party fuel filler but this rather turns on costs of works as to viability versus costs involved in what might be a speculative claim in negligence . I assume the costs here are £2k max maybe ?

 

[Poecheng]

May I take a different tack - happy to chip in on the above but lots of advice there.
I can help you with that but there is no instant solution or even a quick solution through insurance.

1. I don't know your situation save that you are 70 years and want a quiet life. If you can afford to do it, get it ripped out and new installed and get sailing. Keep the old bits as taking them out does not affect their condition and, in any event, you cannot drink from it whoever pays for the repairs so it will have to be done. Any inspection can take place off the boat by putting it all back together.

2. Alternative is to find a flexible tank (Plastimo) and somewhere to store it. Replace the deckfiller pipe to the new tank and new water supply pipes. Quite a bit of work but less than ripping the tank out.

3. Have you tried a carbon filter to take away any taste?

4. Do what we do which is to buy a load of Evian or cheap-as-chips 5l water bottles from Tesco and use that for your drinking and cooking water. Use the tank for everything else. You should keep the bills and use this as part of your claim

The main thing is somehow to bypass the impass and enjoy your time. if you can do #4 above, it might improve your time aboard. It keeps Mrs Poecheng happy and is a small price really

 

[ylop]

Claiming off a third party is under the law of torts where first you have to prove negligence (clear in this case) but generally third party insurers are tougher to deal with when it comes to putting things right - as you have discovered

I’m not sure how clear the negligence is. I’ve never used a Marina that filled my tanks for me when I wasn’t there, and I don’t recall anyone other than me or my crew opening the tank or putting filler hose in. So the circumstances how the marina came to do that, and be at fault may be relevant, although since they have sent a surveyor there does seem to be at least some acceptance of possible liability although that could be goodwill.

I’m not sure it would have occurred to me to claim my own insurance, or even to check if covered. Perhaps this is standard in most policies. Given the hassle and time involved for what will be a comparatively low cost claim the OP must be wondering whether she would have been better just fixing it and taking the hit.

If I were the insurer I might be asking if the problem could have been better mitigated at the time to avoid contaminating the pipework and hot water system too.

I am a little surprised that flushing the tank, filling with detergent, and further flushing hasn’t reduced contamination levels to safe levels where a carbon filter would remove any residual odour. I wouldn’t have used Milton - but perhaps an “oxi” style laundry cleaner and hot water might have helped.

 

[Tranona]

I’m not sure how clear the negligence is. I’ve never used a Marina that filled my tanks for me when I wasn’t there, and I don’t recall anyone other than me or my crew opening the tank or putting filler hose in. So the circumstances how the marina came to do that, and be at fault may be relevant, although since they have sent a surveyor there does seem to be at least some acceptance of possible liability although that could be goodwill.

I’m not sure it would have occurred to me to claim my own insurance, or even to check if covered. Perhaps this is standard in most policies. Given the hassle and time involved for what will be a comparatively low cost claim the OP must be wondering whether she would have been better just fixing it and taking the hit.

If I were the insurer I might be asking if the problem could have been better mitigated at the time to avoid contaminating the pipework and hot water system too.

I am a little surprised that flushing the tank, filling with detergent, and further flushing hasn’t reduced contamination levels to safe levels where a carbon filter would remove any residual odour. I wouldn’t have used Milton - but perhaps an “oxi” style laundry cleaner and hot water might have helped.

As ever there is probably more to this than is in the original post but one can only base observations on what is written. "All risks" is pretty wide ranging and usually constrained by exclusions and it seems that the insurer has accepted the claim in principle and once it is settled will seek to recover from the third party's insurer.

Hopefully there will be some follow up from the OP

 

[Alicatt]

Not bad but not that long, took over 2 years to get the insurance company of the tw@t that sideswiped my car to pay up and even then my insurance company were reluctant to give me back my full no-claims discount.

My insurance company had to sue the other insurance company to get them to pay up.

Just back from the boat, when we went off to Scotland the water tank had emptied it's self and the water pump was still running, no time to find out why back then in January, just pulled the fuse and had to leave. Today I lifted the floor along the water pipe route and then proceeded to fill the tank, it holds 450 litres, once the gauge started to give a reading I switched the pump back on, the pump ran, I opened the sink tap in the forward heads and ran off some water, ok, pump still running, and running... opened the other taps in the galley and the aft heads and they all flowed fine, no sign of water anywhere in the pipe run along the bilges, the pump stopped. Ok maybe I had left a tap open when running the antifreeze through the system, the pump started again, I went outside to check on the hose filling the tank and seen a fine spray of water going half way across the canal, the shower mixer head on the swim platform had split, off with the pump again and will be visiting the plumbers shop for a new mixer in a while.
Relief!!!