New tax for foreign yachts based in Greece from 1st January 2014????

[jordanbasset]

Fred drift, but in view of the lack of knowledge exposed on this thread, people might like to look at the latest news of UK kleptocracy which makes the Greeks look like inept beginners at fleecing non-nationals.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...-tax-experts-warn-British-expats-hit-too.html

Makes one proud to be British, don't it.

Seems to me it is about time they closed that loophole, from your link
'Tax experts warned British expats who own property in the UK that is not deemed their primary residence would be liable to pay the tax if, or when, they came to sell their property. CGT is charged at 18 per cent for basic rate taxpayers but most paying the tax pay the higher 28 per cent rate for higher rate taxpayers..

Under the current system people living in Britain pay capital gains tax on any profit from selling a property that is not classed as their primary residence. But foreign property investors, including British expats classed as non-resident, are presently exempt from the tax. '

 

[Bertramdriver]

As a victim of this tax, I have a desire to apply to the European Court for an annulment in the tax on the grounds that it is contradiction to at least three articles (free movement, right of enjoyment and free expression) and that the Troika is imposing an onerous and inequitable burden on EU members on a discriminatory basis (Boat owners).
If you want to support this action please make your donation of £50 to the following website. Www.ripoffboaters.tv.

 

[rivonia]

Realy £50 how come your so cheap?

 

[Bertramdriver]

I'm a giving person:angel:

 

[ropeysailer]

I have read through this complete thread and my head hurts I found it very difficult to pick out the useful contributions), some comments however are helpful and it is clear that the contributors have gone to a lot of trouble. Others, I feel should take their soapbox elswhere.

We cruise our 9.5 metre yacht for about 2 months of the year in the Ionian. Where possible we try and anchor. Whenever we visit a small harbour we always make a point of eating at least once in a local Tavena. Quite often, when anchoring in a quiet secluded spot, we notice several piles of rubbish which can only have come from visiting boats. Many other small harbours struggle to keep up with the endless rubbish produced by visiting yachtsman, even when they can be bothered to walk to a skip. Countless times I have seen precious water being used to wash boats. Yes, I do myself but only as often as I feel the need and not on a small Island where resources are precious.

My point is this; we cruise in a bueatiful area, we enjoy the stunning scenery, we frollick in the crystal clear sea. We think not of the infrastructure that supports all this. My tax liability, I think, 300 euros, is a small price to pay for cruising in such a bueatiful area. However I do have some concerns:

The proposed tax does seem disproportionate for larger boats even with discounts although the more imaginative may be able to reduce their liabiity.

Catamarans have recieved scant consideration here, in my view they are a liability in small anchorages. If this tax is to be implemented, and I understand that it has passed through parliament, they should pay at least 1 1/2 x standard rate.

What happens if a boat is sold midway through the calendar year, does the boat retain it's tax status, or will the new owner have to pay up? Presumably the previous owner's name will be on the receipt.

For those that winter afloat, and not able to get to their boat until the spring, are they liable for a late payment penalty. Can the Greek tax system cope with on-line payment, as I believe has been mooted, and will the authorities accept a printed receipt given that they don't normally accept anything that looks remotely like a photocopy.

I suspect that there will be many other anomolies. Implementation by the 1st Jan? I don't think our highly efficient civil service could even manage that.

 

[Marsupial]

Others, I feel should take their soapbox elswhere.

where would that be exactly?

this forum is for everybody, the pluralist views expressed by the contributors add to the richness of the learning experience, its a forum.

apart from that, the Greek tax is nothing to do with boating, its politics

enjoy your 2 months in paradise, we are here 12 months 24/7 and its great!

 

[nickf]

where would that be exactly?

this forum is for everybody, the pluralist views expressed by the contributors add to the richness of the learning experience, its a forum.

apart from that, the Greek tax is nothing to do with boating, its politics

enjoy your 2 months in paradise, we are here 12 months 24/7 and its great!

I'm with ropeysailer on this one. Forums are for everyone to air their views but some individuals seem to dominate. I suspect that there are some ( alright I'm one of them) who are quite happy to pay this tax but are reluctant to express that view because of the danger of being "flamed". Having kept a boat and sailed in most of the Mediterranean countries I for one will be staying in Greece and happy to pay the tax (perhaps I've "gone native" - this must be the most xenophopic phrases as I've heard expressed recently) . I find the remarks aimed at individuals, particularly Jim B who is more than able to defend himself, reflect more on the people making them. Unless of course it was all done tong in cheek - I suppose I can but hope.

 

[Steve C Cronin]

I'm with ropeysailer on this one. Forums are for everyone to air their views but some individuals seem to dominate. I suspect that there are some ( alright I'm one of them) who are quite happy to pay this tax but are reluctant to express that view because of the danger of being "flamed". Having kept a boat and sailed in most of the Mediterranean countries I for one will be staying in Greece and happy to pay the tax (perhaps I've "gone native" - this must be the most xenophopic phrases as I've heard expressed recently) . I find the remarks aimed at individuals, particularly Jim B who is more than able to defend himself, reflect more on the people making them. Unless of course it was all done tong in cheek - I suppose I can but hope.

Why are you happy to pay the tax?

 

[Tranona]

I take it then that you are all for it?

FOR what? Not expressing a view for or against actions by either governments, just pointing out that you can make a case for against any proposed policy. As individuals you can only react to any changes in your own interests. Collective lobbying may or may not have any impact. Just how it is in a democracy trying to reconcile competing interests.

 

[nickf]

Why are you happy to pay the tax?

.... because its part of the responsibility of living in a democracy... and from a more selfish viewpoint I find Greece much cheaper to keep my boat than Spain and Italy for example.

 

[Ravi]

A few thoughts .....

It seems clear that this law has been designed with the assumption that boats are used for all or most of the year. If you are using a boat of around 10m all year, then 1 Euro a day, although unwelcome, does not seem a hugely excessive amount to pay for the beauty of the Greek seas. If you have a 12m yacht, it is 3 euros a day. A bit steep but probably not financially ruinous if you can afford to run a 36 footer.

The flaw with the law is for people who don't use their boats all year. E.g. boats from Croatia, Italy, Turkey or elsewhere who cruise into Greek waters for a short period. A weekend day sail to Crete in a 10m boat will cost 400 euros in "mooring fees". How crazy is that? Surely, this law will discourage such visits and mean a loss to the Greek tourist economy. Similarly, those boat owners who pay a year's marina fees into the Greek economy for an August fortnight's sailing will baulk at the additional cost of 'parking' their >12m yachts and may take their custom abroad.

So, if the object of the law (tax) is to raise revenue, it may well be counter productive. That depends on what percentage of 'tourist' revenue this category of 'visitors' represents compared to the number of people who user their <12m boats daily. Maybe the legislators have made this calculation and found that this 'visitors' revenue will be less than the money generated from 'resident' boats. I wouldn't bet on it.

I think that the people who are going to be hit most directly by this law are the Greek marinas who might see a lot of their >12m yachts (especially their low maintenance August fortnight customers) go elsewhere. In fact, it will discourage boat ownership in general.

There are so many aspect of this law (Multihull owners must be laughing) that are ambiguous and half baked, that it just looks like a piece of bad legislation. In which case, we can only hope it is scrapped or fixed.

 

[sailaboutvic]

One of the questions I have is if I am sailing though Greece to get to Turkey and made a one or two nights stop in Greek waters an I expected to pay the tax of 400 euros ?

 

[charles_reed]

I'm with ropeysailer on this one. Forums are for everyone to air their views but some individuals seem to dominate. I suspect that there are some ( alright I'm one of them) who are quite happy to pay this tax but are reluctant to express that view because of the danger of being "flamed". Having kept a boat and sailed in most of the Mediterranean countries I for one will be staying in Greece and happy to pay the tax (perhaps I've "gone native" - this must be the most xenophopic phrases as I've heard expressed recently) . I find the remarks aimed at individuals, particularly Jim B who is more than able to defend himself, reflect more on the people making them. Unless of course it was all done tong in cheek - I suppose I can but hope.

A nice (in the original sense of balanced) centrist viewpoint which I'm sure the more psychologically balanced, will recognise and accept.

 

[BrianH]

The flaw with the law is for people who don't use their boats all year. E.g. boats from Croatia, Italy, Turkey or elsewhere who cruise into Greek waters for a short period. A weekend day sail to Crete in a 10m boat will cost 400 euros in "mooring fees". How crazy is that? Surely, this law will discourage such visits and mean a loss to the Greek tourist economy.

This is exactly why I shall not be repeating my occasional cruise down the Adriatic to the Ionian from NE Italy. Not only shall I have to pay this new Greek tax for the month I spend there but more than double it by all the Croatian fees and taxes for the passage en route. My limited sailing in Italian and Slovenian waters this year was cheap indeed in comparison to those two neighbours. Perhaps they are a sign of the times and the Mediterranean will slowly become a playground only for megayachts and charter fleets.

For those true liveaboard types with no ties to keep them bound to Europe, there is always the Caribbean ...

 

[Tony Cross]

Why are you happy to pay the tax?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'm happy to pay a tax to cruise the waters of Greece because I recognise that the Greeks themselves (under the cosh of the troika as has been mentioned) are being taxed beyond the realms of reasonableness and I don't see why those of us sailing in Greek waters should be exempt from that pain. My problem is with the step change at 12m because it's patently unfair. I'd pay €500 or €600 a year for my 13.7m yacht, that is a reasonable tax, €1300 or possibly €1400, depending on the wording, is not.

 

[1bobt]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'm happy to pay a tax to cruise the waters of Greece because I recognise that the Greeks themselves (under the cosh of the troika as has been mentioned) are being taxed beyond the realms of reasonableness and I don't see why those of us sailing in Greek waters should be exempt from that pain. My problem is with the step change at 12m because it's patently unfair. I'd pay €500 or €600 a year for my 13.7m yacht, that is a reasonable tax, €1300 or possibly €1400, depending on the wording, is not.

+1 As we are all in it together a charge of 10- 20 euro per metre on all boats 0 -24+ would have collected more .And possibly emptied a few ports of the small unused fishing boats ,taking spaces designed and paid for by northern European Tax payers ,for tourism

 

[nimbusgb]

It's the inequity of it that has pi$$ed me off. I love sailing The Ionian but an extra 100 euro per week is just not on.

 

[affinite]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'm happy to pay a tax to cruise the waters of Greece because I recognise that the Greeks themselves (under the cosh of the troika as has been mentioned) are being taxed beyond the realms of reasonableness and I don't see why those of us sailing in Greek waters should be exempt from that pain. My problem is with the step change at 12m because it's patently unfair. I'd pay €500 or €600 a year for my 13.7m yacht, that is a reasonable tax, €1300 or possibly €1400, depending on the wording, is not.

+ another 1

 

[Jamesuk]

The title is
Mis leading - the tax is for ALL yachts!

 

[Ravi]

The title is Mis leading - the tax is for ALL yachts!

Indeed! In fact, the misery is spread to all BOATS over 7m!