New Nav Set up

[onesea]

Almost a clean start what would you recommend?

I have asked else where on here but it was suggested I might get more sensible answer from this section:
Startup Nav Package

This is all to be mounted at a small chart table on a 30’ boat.

Presently I have:
Echo sounder (in cockpit),
Tiller Pilot,
A very old GPS - internal battery dead,
VHF-GMDSS,
Phones tablets etc with Navionics and others,

What I need to do is replace GPS for the GMDSS input.

What I would like to get:
GPS - preferably plotter with AIS input/ built in ( ideally with screen off function to save power),
Wind Direction (for tiller pilot),
Class B - AIS (Must be able to turn off class B and AIS), with Wifi for Navionics

I would like to avoid touch screen, the days when we are going to want this kit we are not likely to have dry hands.

I have seen the Onwa gear but, what else would you recommend?
Not wanting a log, I have trailing one if I need to do DR

Most of my Navigation is traditional I might not put positions on a chart but use phone/ tablet more as a guide to produce clearing bearings and courses to steer and distances for approximate ETA’s.
Much of the time the AIS will be off, and the GPS will be out of sight out of mind, the VHF is normally turned down low.

 

[Hoolie]

I have a slightly more extensive system than you, but I have bought a Raymarine Elements 7 unit as a back up in the cockpit. It's a budget chart plotter with its own GPS (no touch screen!) and can display AIS data from an NMEA2000 connected receiver. It also interfaces with Raymarine chirp transducers for profiling depth.

 

[johnalison]

The two alternatives are to continue with separate items, adding them piecemeal, or to integrate them into one system, generally using the plotter to serve as the centre. This would give you certain advantages, such as the ability to display true wind and VMG and also have all the information available at the one screen and elsewhere. I am out of date on current equipment but I have an e7 which connects to all the other units including class B AIS and has its own GPS which works fine with its own aerial. Some people may wish to integrate their system with other units such as phones and computers but I have not looked into this.
You need to work out in advance what your needs are, and preferably look at other people's systems to see what is now on offer and work out what you want to pay.

 

[PeterV]

My budget option is a Garmin echomap, a McMurdo AIS which displays on the chartplotter and a NASA depth, with a Stand alone DSC VHF. The tiller pilot is a Raymarine ST2000, bought secondhand which easily handles my 29’ Boat.

 

[syfuga]

Take care!
I am refitting a 40 year old Sadler 29. It has Clipper (NMEA0183) instruments and a tiller pilot that I do not want to throw away.
I am hoping to integrate these with new AIS, heading sensor, and cockpit display. I planned to do my navigation at the chart table with the largest TV monitor that will fit and a small notebook computer with mouse, as I have done in the past. I use Linux and OpenCPN on the computer.
This all ran on my last boat quite happily, with Raymarine, Seatalk, and a C90W MFD.

I chose the B&G Vulcan as it is a bit cheaper, and seemed much more configurable for displaying data, as well as offering wifi connections.
I chose Quark equipment for the N2K integration, but on Quark's advice had to change what I had bought for a Quark A034B. This appears to work alright: but I am only desk testing at present.
Then I ran into trouble. Firstly, the wifi only transmits data: it does not receive data. While I was assured that data on the NMEA2000 bus would be displayed, it seems the Vulcan will only display internally generated navigational data. While I can generate RCB, XTE sentences that are translated into N2K PGN129284 (Navigational Data) that appears on the Vulcan settings screens, the Vulcan will not look at them! That despite the installation manual telling me it is supported, and all the settings appearing to be in place.
I am now looking into the Raymarine Axiom, but hope not to be bitten twice!

If anyone knows of a small MFD that will display N2K data, please let me know.

 

[Dutch01527]

My boat is fitted with a nearly new Raymarine Axiom MFD and I never use it. The display quality and ease of use is miles behind the rugged android tablet I bought for £90 on eBay with Navionics and wifi AIS. I have a similar set up on my iPhone.

If the Axiom broke I would not replace it. The days of very expensive fixed chart plotters are numbered for costal leisure boats in my opinion.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

I was in your situation a couple of years ago. I bought a complete package of new stuff all from the same manufacturer (including an Axiom MFD!). Hence, no integration issues and very easy set up. Overall, I’m really happy with it.

We use the touch-screen functionality almost all the time. It’s by far the quickest way to navigate round the various options. The Axiom Pro series have conventional knobs as a back up if, for any reason, the touch screen isn’t responding.

AIS B is a complete no-brainer for anyone planning to do more than simple day cruising. I can’t think of any good reason why I would want to turn mine off.

If you eschew the chartplotter option then make sure to install a USB port or two at your nav station. IPhone/iPad chews through battery life when using GPS.

A single multi function display such as Raymarine’s i70 replaces all the functions that used to be carried out by separate wind indicators and depth gauges etc.

 

[syfuga]

I was in your situation a couple of years ago. I bought a complete package of new stuff all from the same manufacturer (including an Axiom MFD!). Hence, no integration issues and very easy set up. Overall, I’m really happy with it.

We use the touch-screen functionality almost all the time. It’s by far the quickest way to navigate round the various options. The Axiom Pro series have conventional knobs as a back up if, for any reason, the touch screen isn’t responding.

AIS B is a complete no-brainer for anyone planning to do more than simple day cruising. I can’t think of any good reason why I would want to turn mine off.

If you eschew the chartplotter option then make sure to install a USB port or two at your nav station. IPhone/iPad chews through battery life when using GPS.

A single multi function display such as Raymarine’s i70 replaces all the functions that used to be carried out by separate wind indicators and depth gauges etc.

Hi Graham,
I've reached the end of the road with the Vulcan, and it is now on eBay! Raymarine assure me that their functionality is as documented, and that there should be no problem, so I too am going to go down the Axiom + route.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

Hi Graham,
I've reached the end of the road with the Vulcan, and it is now on eBay! Raymarine assure me that their functionality is as documented, and that there should be no problem, so I too am going to go down the Axiom + route.

I don’t think you’ll be dissappointed!

 

[syfuga]

My boat is fitted with a nearly new Raymarine Axiom MFD and I never use it. The display quality and ease of use is miles behind the rugged android tablet I bought for £90 on eBay with Navionics and wifi AIS. I have a similar set up on my iPhone.

If the Axiom broke I would not replace it. The days of very expensive fixed chart plotters are numbered for costal leisure boats in my opinion.

I had the pleasure of sailing my last boat from the Villaine to Calais with the new owner, a Ferry Captain, who sat in the cockpit with his Ipad checking my navigation! The lack of integration would concern me, and I would like to see him doing it in a F8 with rain chucking down.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I was in your situation a couple of years ago. I bought a complete package of new stuff all from the same manufacturer (including an Axiom MFD!). Hence, no integration issues and very easy set up. Overall, I’m really happy with it.

We use the touch-screen functionality almost all the time. It’s by far the quickest way to navigate round the various options. The Axiom Pro series have conventional knobs as a back up if, for any reason, the touch screen isn’t responding.

AIS B is a complete no-brainer for anyone planning to do more than simple day cruising. I can’t think of any good reason why I would want to turn mine off.

If you eschew the chartplotter option then make sure to install a USB port or two at your nav station. IPhone/iPad chews through battery life when using GPS.

A single multi function display such as Raymarine’s i70 replaces all the functions that used to be carried out by separate wind indicators and depth gauges etc.

I agree. I can think of no good reason to turn the AIS off. What on earth is the benefit of going stealth unless you’re a competitor in some sort of fishing competition, a professional fisherman or a smuggler.

 

[Refueler]

I had the pleasure of sailing my last boat from the Villaine to Calais with the new owner, a Ferry Captain, who sat in the cockpit with his Ipad checking my navigation! The lack of integration would concern me, and I would like to see him doing it in a F8 with rain chucking down.

Ok .... lets think about that .... and I will use my example.

Recently sailed my recent purchase (Conqubin 38 Cruiser Racer) from Sweden to Latvia. It has Garmin UHD plotter MFD fitted ....
As per my usual practice - I carried my own plotter (Onwa KP39A) and this time my Android with Navionics. My two crew - each had Navionics, one on iPad and other on smartphione.

Sad to say - the Garmin crapped out a couple of times ... never found out why ... but my Onwa with K charts performed flawlessly .. as did all the phones and tablets with Navionics. If raining - then just inside companionway ... when not - nice to have in hand ....
The navionics played a large part in keeping us on track.

When I have the Onwa on my other boat - it links to a NMEA2WiFi unit that allows tablets / PC's etc. to use the data out from the Onwa AND to pass data to Onwa ....

I've said it before and to this day - I still do not understand why mainstream brands fail to appreciate the built in AIS format ... its so simple and no extra boxes or power needs ....

I am 50-50 whether to invest in another Onwa to permanent install on the 38. ... the Garmin can stay as it has Swedish Chart card to supplement my Onwa ...

 

[Dutch01527]

A Ipad or Iphone is not ideal. Screen is poor in strong sunlight and waterproofing issues on older iPhones and the iPad. Newer iPhones are water resistant but will not charge when wet.

A rugged android tablet that has been designed for heavy industrial use is a much better choice. Waterproof, screen designed for sunlight, 12 hours battery life with GPS running, USB charger, integral GPS and tough as old boots. Mine is a Conker make and cost me £90 second hand on eBay. They can cost up to £1,000 new. I fitted a waterproof dual charging point. Works perfectly

To my mind there are lots of points of failure with a traditional chart plotter, the unit itself, power supply, separate his antenna, the NMEA backbone, all the cabling etc.

I have two I70’s and they are pretty good. Wind, speeds, course , AIS, depth all in one place. Plan is to add engine and tank date to them as well when I can work out how to do it.

 

[onesea]

@syfuga thanks for your comments that is one of my concerns.

Replacing the small echo sounder in the cockpit with a multi function screen does seem attractive, although you have put different spin on it.
I did wonder if manufacturers are doing the same where not all inputs are counted as equal.
I am sure manufactures will use the new standard to encourage using there equipment and charts.

However looking at this we are thinking of starting with a ONWA AIS Chart plotter with NMEA2000 & 183

For all the shouts about tablets etc, I still want a screen below at the chart table. With buttons for when your being bounced. Consider it a back up for the phones and tablets this systems main use will be to support.

 

[john_morris_uk]

OK but you still haven’t explained why you’re adamant AIS should/will be off so much.

 

[Refueler]

OK but you still haven’t explained why you’re adamant AIS should/will be off so much.

Maybe Wife knows how to track on Marine Traffic ??

 

[onesea]

OK but you still haven’t explained why you’re adamant AIS should/will be off so much.

For me it is desirable to:

• Save power,
• Not be another blob in the Solent on a sunny day,
• So I don’t have to think about changing status when I drop the hook/sailing/motoring etc,
• So the misses cannot see I am sailing when I said I was doing some work on the boat,

However looking at how I am putting the system together it is a combined unit with the ability to turn class B AIS off (with negligible power saving).

This system will have a bigger power draw (at about 2 amps) than the Tiller Pilot or Nav lights reducing my battery range considerably.

Allot of the time for much of my sailing it will really not be necessary. Ironically at the same time the power draw will not matter much either. It’s on longer passages in less familiar waters where it all adds up.

I can see why a complete package with “plug and play” becomes attractive.

 

[onesea]

Just to add my sailing breaks down into afew types:
80% Day sailing familiar waters,
15% A combination of dusk, dawn sailing familiar waters with fog, rain, wind etc
5% Day / Night Sailing, unfamiliar waters,

We are running out of unfamiliar waters in our normal cruising time scale hence the small %.
Next year (always next year) there is a plan to have the time to find more unfamiliar waters.

 

[john_morris_uk]

For me it is desirable to:

• Save power,
• Not be another blob in the Solent on a sunny day,
• So I don’t have to think about changing status when I drop the hook/sailing/motoring etc,
• So the misses cannot see I am sailing when I said I was doing some work on the boat,

However looking at how I am putting the system together it is a combined unit with the ability to turn class B AIS off (with negligible power saving).

This system will have a bigger power draw (at about 2 amps) than the Tiller Pilot or Nav lights reducing my battery range considerably.

Allot of the time for much of my sailing it will really not be necessary. Ironically at the same time the power draw will not matter much either. It’s on longer passages in less familiar waters where it all adds up.

I can see why a complete package with “plug and play” becomes attractive.

With Class B you don’t change status. It’s either on or off.
What’s the problem with being another blob
Power consumption on our AIS (Raymarine integrated system) is negligible. Turning the AIS transmission function off is a couple of clicks but I never bother.

Our entire Nav system doesn’t draw enough to ever worry me.

 

[Refueler]

With Class B you don’t change status. It’s either on or off.
What’s the problem with being another blob
Power consumption on our AIS (Raymarine integrated system) is negligible. Turning the AIS transmission function off is a couple of clicks but I never bother.

Our entire Nav system doesn’t draw enough to ever worry me.

Yours maybe ... but my Onwa gives me option of AIS saying IN PORT ... OUT PORT ... primarily to disable Collision alarm when in port and close to another AIS transmitter unit etc.

But basically it is not just ON ... OFF ......

Class B is 2W ..... B+ can be up to 5W (there are some at 2W). Given a moderate inefficient power in - out relation ... a 2W is about 200mA ,... a 5W is about 500mA ..... AT TIME OF TRANSMISSION .... but most time is Rx .... so in fact you can cut that way way back ...

Is it really enough to worry about ...