New Greek "Duty" on Yachts Announced

[Tranona]

I do I don't see any difference between visiting a country by boat and car. If you drive across the boarder to Greece you are not asked to pay €130 towards road tax so why should boats? If Greece tried to impose such a tax on cars entering the country the EU would jump n them fro a great height, I do not see why we should accept this charge at all, movement should be free, only berthing should be chargable.`

You misunderstand the reasons for the tax. It is a tax on boats, not on travel and applies to both residents and visitors alike. That is why it is acceptable under EU rules.

 

[Tony Cross]

You misunderstand the reasons for the tax. It is a tax on boats, not on travel and applies to both residents and visitors alike. That is why it is acceptable under EU rules.

Exactly. This tax is really a replacement for the existing (and largely avoided) Luxury Tax on boat ownership for Greek taxpayers. The Greek government has realised that any system that creates exceptions to this tax for non-Greek taxpayers will be exploited by the Greeks to avoid it. For example, applying it to only Greek registered vessels is the reason why so many Greek vessels are registered in Delaware or Connecticut. Foreign yacht owners, who really are pretty small potatoes, are simply caught up in the crossfire.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Exactly. This tax is really a replacement for the existing (and largely avoided) Luxury Tax on boat ownership for Greek taxpayers. The Greek government has realised that any system that creates exceptions to this tax for non-Greek taxpayers will be exploited by the Greeks to avoid it. For example, applying it to only Greek registered vessels is the reason why so many Greek vessels are registered in Delaware or Connecticut. Foreign yacht owners, who really are pretty small potatoes, are simply caught up in the crossfire.

HERE WE GO AGAIN .
It's like waving a red rag to a bull every time I read that the tax is to catch Greek boat owners who have boat register outside Greece Tony .
What a load of rubbish .
You know as well as I do , there very little amount of Greek boats under over country flags and the once that are , are the big Muti millions bucks once , mostly motor boats ,
99 % of boats under 16 mts are Greek flag , I can't remember the last time I seen a Greek family on a non Greek flag boat .
So the small amount of Muti million euros Greek boat that are register else where is going to make no different to the government or to the owners , because if they want to avoid the tax they will just move them else where .
This is a tax on every boat no matter which country it comes from , or size and that's the bottom line .
I said it time and time again , if they want to tax boat which are full time in Greece then they should do it by taxing berthing and mooring fee , be it in Marina or on walls that way they will still catch the Greeks who boats are register in Delaware .
I can't see why they should tax yacht that are only in Greece for some weeks or months visiting or the once who are just passing by .
If you was an Italian with an 14 mts boat and takes his three weeks summer holiday in Greece , what would you be doing if this tax came in ? .
I know what I be going .

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Nice one Vic I was starting to believe I was the lone voice .

 

[Tony Cross]

HERE WE GO AGAIN .
It's like waving a red rag to a bull every time I read that the tax is to catch Greek boat owners who have boat register outside Greece Tony .
What a load of rubbish .
You know as well as I do , there very little amount of Greek boats under over country flags and the once that are , are the big Muti millions bucks once , mostly motor boats ,
99 % of boats under 16 mts are Greek flag , I can't remember the last time I seen a Greek family on a non Greek flag boat .
So the small amount of Muti million euros Greek boat that are register else where is going to make no different to the government or to the owners , because if they want to avoid the tax they will just move them else where .
This is a tax on every boat no matter which country it comes from , or size and that's the bottom line .
I said it time and time again , if they want to tax boat which are full time in Greece then they should do it by taxing berthing and mooring fee , be it in Marina or on walls that way they will still catch the Greeks who boats are register in Delaware .
I can't see why they should tax yacht that are only in Greece for some weeks or months visiting or the once who are just passing by .
If you was an Italian with an 14 mts boat and takes his three weeks summer holiday in Greece , what would you be doing if this tax came in ? .
I know what I be going .

Nice one Vic I was starting to believe I was the lone voice .

Except it's not true. There's a 42ft motor cruiser three berths down from me registered in Delaware, and he's far from the only one. Lots of boats fly Greek flags (including the one I just mentioned) but that doesn't mean they are actually Greek registered. By all means take the view that the nasty Greek government is deliberately persecuting you if you wish, but that's not the whole story.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

I know who the tax is aimed at ,but that does not make it a justifiable way to collect it from innocent sources, that ,as you have said hardly registered on the Greek gov radar.
My grouse is the CA getting involved in negotiations in its implication, instead of challenging it as other association did in the past with some success .
I and many thousand of other yachties out here have not given the CA permission to talk for us.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Except it's not true. There's a 42ft motor cruiser three berths down from me registered in Delaware, and he's far from the only one. Lots of boats fly Greek flags (including the one I just mentioned) but that doesn't mean they are actually Greek registered. By all means take the view that the nasty Greek government is deliberately persecuting you if you wish, but that's not the whole story.

You miss understand me Tony , unlike some on here (YBW ),
if some thing don't suite me I just pack my bag and move on ,
And if it ever come in and I unhappy that what I do .
so no their are not deliberately persecuting me ,
if I had use a words to describe what they are doing it be ,
ripping off yachtsmen from all over the world to line their pockets ,
What ever their reason are .
Has for the one Greek own yacht moored near you , now if you said 15 or 20 I can see your point , but one out of a few hundreds or how ever many the Marina hold . That a drop in the ocean .
And if as you say they are flying Greek flag and reg else where , well that's up the the Greek PP to take Acton , but as always , there not interested in taken action on their own country men , more interested in ripping yachtmen who spend good money keeping Greece alive thought the summer months .
You and I have been going tho this a few years , at times it fun , good to have a debate now and then ,
Maybe it time we agree to disagree .

 

[NornaBiron]

Has for the one Greek own yacht moored near you , now if you said 15 or 20 I can see your point , but one out of a few hundreds or how ever many the Marina hold . That a drop in the ocean .
And if as you say they are flying Greek flag and reg else where , well that's up the the Greek PP to take Acton , but as always , there not interested in taken action on their own country men , more interested in ripping yachtmen who spend good money keeping Greece alive thought the summer months .

A couple of years ago we took Norna into Agia Kosma marina on the Athens coast as we had to have our batteries tested. We were the smallest boat (by a loooong way) in there.

We got chatting to the guy who ran the office, his English was perfect as he'd studied in Manchester, and asked him why so many of the enormous yachts and motor boats in the marina were registered in England, and why there was only one registered in Greece. His answer was that each of the English registered boats had an address which was a box file in an office somewhere in England. For tax avoidance. Apparently there was nothing legally wrong with this.

Yesterday we sailed up the Hydra channel and were passed by about 40 or 50 of these same boats. There are plenty of them out there, we see them all the time, they rarely have an English speaking person on board.

I'm in agreement with Tony, the average foreign yachtsman is collateral damage in the Greek government's attempt to recover tax from the high earning, tax avoiding local who has been getting away with it for so long.

 

[sailaboutvic]

A couple of years ago we took Norna into Agia Kosma marina on the Athens coast as we had to have our batteries tested. We were the smallest boat (by a loooong way) in there.

We got chatting to the guy who ran the office, his English was perfect as he'd studied in Manchester, and asked him why so many of the enormous yachts and motor boats in the marina were registered in England, and why there was only one registered in Greece. His answer was that each of the English registered boats had an address which was a box file in an office somewhere in England. For tax avoidance. Apparently there was nothing legally wrong with this.

Yesterday we sailed up the Hydra channel and were passed by about 40 or 50 of these same boats. There are plenty of them out there, we see them all the time, they rarely have an English speaking person on board.

I'm in agreement with Tony, the average foreign yachtsman is collateral damage in the Greek government's attempt to recover tax from the high earning, tax avoiding local who has been getting away with it for so long.

Please don't talk tosh , so from two years ago you remember 40 /50 boats , I bet you don't remember us ,
And you seen us quite a few time .
And even if that was true , has I keep saying if they tax berth and mooring fee they would catch there so call million of boat ,
I know if had the money to I own one of them boats it won't worry me about paying a small amount of tax and if it did I just get my full time crew to move some where else .
Our thing you are right about , and that is the 40 / 50 muit euro boats that are own by Greek under over country flag , compear to the thousand of boats from country all over the world . Who will be hit by this tax .
How will it effect me personally , it doesn't , but it will effect lots of others .
Let's get one thing very clear , no tax will effect them people , they alway a way around it , that's why they are where they are and we are where we are , the only people who will end up out of pocket , is the likes of you and me .

 

[NornaBiron]

Please don't talk tosh , so from two years ago you remember 40 /50 boats , I bet you don't remember us ,
And you seen us quite a few time .

There's no need to be rude.

I remember the incident very clearly as we have only been in three Greek marinas in the last 8 years, they tend to be memorable occasions as they are not the norm for us. I also clearly remember discussing with my husband the number of private marinas along the same stretch of coastline and the potential number of millions of euros of tax avoidance.

No, I'm sorry, I don't remember you but if you weren't on board having a drink with us then why would I? What's your boat's name? We'll keep an eye out for you and then we'll be able to put names to faces.

 

[sailaboutvic]

There's no need to be rude.

I remember the incident very clearly as we have only been in three Greek marinas in the last 8 years, they tend to be memorable occasions as they are not the norm for us. I also clearly remember discussing with my husband the number of private marinas along the same stretch of coastline and the potential number of millions of euros of tax avoidance.

No, I'm sorry, I don't remember you but if you weren't on board having a drink with us then why would I? What's your boat's name? We'll keep an eye out for you and then we'll be able to put names to faces.

Yes I was being a bit rude and for that I sorry , but really it getting a bit stupid now this talk about why the Greece goverment introduce the tax .
Where this come from , I not read and goverment report to say they bring in the tax to catch Greek boat owners , so where is all this coming from ,
The only place I seen it written is on here by some people who have nothing to do with e Greek goverment , or maybe they have , Norna you very nice people but don't belive every thing you read here .
If you want to know who we are are Albert and Sheena .
Ps
We very rearly been in the Marina and I can honsty say Other then our friends I don't remember any unless it happen to be a boat that stands out . And let be fair , there not that may of them as you say 40 or so ,

 

[sailaboutvic]

Let's all Remember some of these big muit boats under Dutch , Belgium or British flag are not all Greek own , ther lots from the US , south Africa ,USSR you only need to look at other parts of the world to see many boat under flag of convenient , are we now to belive there are all Greek own ,

 

[NornaBiron]

Let's all Remember some of these big muit boats under Dutch , Belgium or British flag are not all Greek own , ther lots from the US , south Africa ,USSR you only need to look at other parts of the world to see many boat under flag of convenient , are we now to belive there are all Greek own ,

I think that's the point, it doesn't matter who owns them, we will all have to pay the tax if it is applied and we want to be in Greek waters.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I think that's the point, it doesn't matter who owns them, we will all have to pay the tax if it is applied and we want to be in Greek waters.

Hi , I accept what you just said , but what get my goat is people keep implying ( that's not to say you do ) these muti mil yacht are all Greek own , and are avoidance tax and that why this tax is on the cards , which is total rubbish , not once have the Greece goverment said the reason for the tax is to catch Greek boat owner under other country flags , just rumours spread by a few here .
Who to say any of these big gin palace are avoidance any tax , I know some are chartered others are owned by company ,
I in no doubt some are brought with black money and tax isn't paid but just because there are moored up in a Greek Marina or town wall it don't make them Greek own .
By the way Tax avoidance isnt illegal , if it was half of our goverment back home will be behind bars and most of the Greek goverment .
Don't get me wrong , I love Greece and most of the Greek people , smiles why you reaching in your pocket , very different
Story when your not , just look at what's happen in Messilonghi at the moment , all them yachtsmen caught up in the mess , just because one Greek can't get his own way and want to rip people off .
There one reason and one reason only what this tax is about , to take money out of the pocket of people who are visiting their country , I know the likes of you and Tony are in Greece all year round , and good for you ,
but hundred or should I say thousand are not just holidays here , we arrived in Greece about five weeks ago , we now in Croatia , we prob spend another in month Greece on the way back so why should we pay out for a year tax for visiting that country , other spend a lot less time .
Ok to be honsty 40 euro per month isnt going to kill me but it will make a different to some .
But that's still not the point , I pay tax back home and rightly I should why should I pay out more tax in a country I don't live in .
What is it someone said on here , the Greeks need the money , well excuse me , so do I .

 

[cynthia]

I feel very fortunate sitting here in the Greek sunshine with a glass of Robolo in hand this evening. We love it out here and have enjoyed Greek food and hospitality. Our sum total in fees at quays since early May is less than 100 euros and of course that enabled us to fill our tanks with water, use their electricity, rubbish disposal etc. On average we eat out three or four times a week, spending somewhere between 27 and 42 euros for the two of us per meal including wine and invariably a freebie of desert or extra wine or ouzo from our generous hosts.
Are we prepared to pay an extra 40 euros a month to continue with this existence.?You can bet your bottom dollar we are.
In the words of 'Old Bill' "If you knows of a better hole, go to it!"
Apologies to Bruce Bairnsfather

 

[sailaboutvic]

I feel very fortunate sitting here in the Greek sunshine with a glass of Robolo in hand this evening. We love it out here and have enjoyed Greek food and hospitality. Our sum total in fees at quays since early May is less than 100 euros and of course that enabled us to fill our tanks with water, use their electricity, rubbish disposal etc. On average we eat out three or four times a week, spending somewhere between 27 and 42 euros for the two of us per meal including wine and invariably a freebie of desert or extra wine or ouzo from our generous hosts.
Are we prepared to pay an extra 40 euros a month to continue with this existence.?You can bet your bottom dollar we are.
In the words of 'Old Bill' "If you knows of a better hole, go to it!"
Apologies to Bruce Bairnsfather

You been sitting in the sun too long and drink too much cheap vino
I can tell you If you was back in Uk and to day the government said everyone had to pay 480 pound a year to sail his boat and boat over 12 mts 10 pounds a month per mts you and the rest would be jumping up and down and squeezing like pigs , let's see what the same people say in a few years down the line when it goes up and up like all taxes do .
The I don't mind paying camp , should just step back a step or two and think about all the people including the every day Geek who can just about afford his little boat having to find this extra money ,
Not all Greek have big gin palaces .
Tony who I have a lot of respect for ever tho we argue a lot here he do some time talk sense , for his 13 mts boat it's going cost him 1560 and even after the discount still over 1100 euros go and tell people like him who are on and fix income ,
And now he reported he living full time in Greece to be able to get his discount , what other can of worms is that going to open . MMMmmmm
In the words of "old VIc" ( an hole is an hole ) which ever way you look at it .
Excuse the punt old Vic theatre

 

[Tony Cross]

You and I have been going tho this a few years , at times it fun , good to have a debate now and then ,
Maybe it time we agree to disagree .

I'm happy to agree to disagree. Though it's always a joy arguing with you because it never descends into name-calling or abuse. :encouragement:

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Will the Greek government listen to the little Englishers in the CA now that we are exiting Europe ?
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.
.
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.only teasing as its hot and I am bored. lol.

 

[Tony Cross]

Will the Greek government listen to the little Englishers in the CA now that we are exiting Europe ?
.
.
.
.
.only teasing as its hot and I am bored. lol.

Where I am the UK is now a sort of folk-hero for spitting in the EU's eye. You never know, they might listen more closely to the 'little Englishers' now...!

 

[Chris_Robb]

Update:
We have had feed back from the Greek Marina Association, that they have had a meeting with the Greek Finance and Shipping Ministries, where they used the CA report to back up their negotiations. They were particularly unhappy about the leap in costs from Sub 12 meters to above 12 meters. (I just need to remove 1 cm from my Overall length!)

Feed back is that the Greeks are determined to implement this tax. How much they have absorbed our requests for change, I have no idea, as I have not even had the courtesy of an acknowledgement yet. Never mind!

When the last TPP was mooted, there was no response until the shipping Ministry was instructed to work out how to Implement it. It was at that point they started consulting. We can but hope they will do so this time otherwise there will be a buggers muddle of an implementation.