New build Princess F55 flybridge

[henryf]

I guess you mean that the boat has interceptors rather than traditional trim tabs, because I'm not aware of any trim tabs fast enough to be used as stabilizers.
Actually, I've always been skeptic also about the producers' claims on the effectiveness of interceptors as stabilizers, but if you tried them and found them useful, I for one would be interested to hear more.

I meant that when on the plane the boat overpowers waves that would cause it to roll at displacement speed. You’re more in charge of your destiny.

 

[henryf]

Henry (stupid question maybe) can I ask if Princess offer any optional extras regarding sound insulation in the engine room or exhaust system upgrades? When you went for a test drive did you notice any improvement in saloon/flybridge noise levels compared to your P50?

No they don’t.

Yes, I’d say it was quieter from memory but I’ll confirm once we take delivery.

 

[henryf]

and not forgetting long before all ofbthat, the thousands of hours of design and engineering then pattern and toolmaking too !

Adding to your comments about PYL quality. I can confirm as a supplier, that they are very “quality” and on-time delivery focussed. The team there I deal with there are so proud of what they do its unreal, but good to see too.

That said, a good friend who bought a new V55 last year, whilst loving his boat overall told me he’s only really used it four times and three of those were to take it back to Southampton to get the faults list sorted and yet still it comes back with many of those items still not sorted. Having spent that kind of money on a NEW product. The worst of it though is its his time and money spent on returning it each tme. Now that would boil my urine !

What do you do ?

In terms of snagging I will have to see how things go. Obviously I’m hoping my scale of expectation is met. The fact we operate as a charter boat means it’s used more than 3 times a year and sometimes that helps keeping on top of things.

I’ll judge as I find once delivery is taken.

 

[MapisM]

I meant that when on the plane the boat overpowers waves that would cause it to roll at displacement speed.

That applies to any planing boat, though.
I mean, in which way "a combination of hull design and trim tabs" affect that?

 

[henryf]

That applies to any planing boat, though.
I mean, in which way "a combination of hull design and trim tabs" affect that?

The boat becomes a more stable platform.

The F55 felt particularly solid at the back when I had a quick go in it.

Not looking to descend into a black hole of relative hull forms and mathematical equations. If you felt my phraseology or wording was incorrect then please ignore it and accept my apologies.

 

[Moonstruck]

In crude terms I think you’re looking at a total build time of around 6 months. There’s maybe 6 boats in the assembly shed and maybe 3 / 4 in the hull moulding shed. Then there‘a a boat or two floating around in the process of testing / sea trials. All very unscientific but it gives you an idea.

I think Princess look to have one or two price increases every year. They have definitely been battling rising costs but you expect increases regardless. If you snooze you lose. Where Princess are very fair - in stark contrast to Porsche, is that your price is locked in at order. Any revisions or additions may be charged at prevailing prices so get your spec tided down early. I think the gyro stabilisation might have gone up £10k since we ordered as an example.

lead time for the F55 is roughly 18 months as far as I know. There have been a couple of opportunities through cancelled orders possibly in the Chinese market which got snapped up instantly. The boat just behind ours is one such example. There are a couple of distinguishing features but someone was able to jump the queue. Now China is waking up again after their draconian lock down I suspect we might see a revival in orders from people glad to still be alive and mindful of their own mortality. If that does happen orders will firm up further still.

ours is one of the first of the newer design F55s. They have hit the water, a few styling revisions the most noticeable of which is a lack of horizontal mullion in the middle of the saloon window.

Hi, really enjoying this thread so thank you. Surprised at your comment about Porsche. I ordered a new car in September 2021 and have just taken delivery . The price at time of order was honoured even though there have been increases to list prices since.

 

[MapisM]

Not looking to descend into a black hole of relative hull forms and mathematical equations.
If you felt my phraseology or wording was incorrect then please ignore it and accept my apologies.

No worries, and no need to apologize, I'm also not interested at all in black holes!
I just guessed you were talking of interceptors, whose producers claim they can stabilize the roll at planing speed, but I've yet to hear any first hand experiences on that - hence my curiosity.
Talking of which, another one if you don't mind: did Prin offer also fins or just the gyro, as options for boat stabilization?

 

[jfm]

Princess offer only gyros at 55 feet (as do nearly all other planing boat builders). Fins tend to start at about 70 feet in planing boats.

Not saying that's sensible or logical - just reporting the facts. Fleming put fins in Fleming 55 for example. But if you asked Princess to put fins (whether electric or hydraulic) in F55 the answer would be a definite "No".

 

[benjenbav]

Wondering if the gyro will make a difference to the crew’s day. I’m sure it will be a boon to the guests, but to make sure they get the full benefit you’ll need to have it spooled up by the time they arrive. Meaning the crew will need to kick off three quarters of an hour earlier. Will they strike for extra pay? Is a mutiny likely?

 

[jfm]

Wondering if the gyro will make a difference to the crew’s day. I’m sure it will be a boon to the guests, but to make sure they get the full benefit you’ll need to have it spooled up by the time they arrive. Meaning the crew will need to kick off three quarters of an hour earlier. Will they strike for extra pay? Is a mutiny likely?

If the boat is on shorepower you should be able to spool up by ipad. Crew might still strike, but it would be through fear of redundancy caused by technology

 

[jrudge]

We had a chance to spend some time on the X80 when Princess held an impromptu show in lieu of the cancelled Düsseldorf show. When I first saw the X95 design some years ago I really struggled and even now don’t see it as something I yearn for but the X80 was really good and other than the small matter of five million quid (give or take) I’d have one tomorrow to keep out in Thailand.

Princess have a fine line to tread placating their relatively conservative clientele whilst still remaining current and being at the cutting edge of trends in the market place. We thought long and hard about ordering the F55 given concerns over the environment and a boat which has the ability to consume in excess of 200 litres per hour when pushed hard.

The single most expensive box we ticked was for the Seakeeper 9 gyro stabilisation system. Whilst on the plane a combination of hull design and trim tabs keeps the boat steady, but once you drop down to economic displacement speeds any beam waves can induce uncomfortable roll. I’m hoping the gyro takes the bulk of this away. This will allow us to operate in a very responsible manner and charter to corporate clients keen to honour their environment commitments. However when the need arises we do still have 30 knots on hand. I couldn’t live with a purely displacement design and it wouldn’t work in the charter market. We should also see gains at anchor particularly in more exposed areas like Colwell Bay, home of the ever popular restaurant, The Hut. Even on a good day in the Solent you get a bit of movement from the wake of other craft and particularly for charter guests this can be disturbing when seeking out somewhere to drop the hook.

I have a sk6 in a squadron 58.

It will eliminate the vast majority of roll at anchor if the weather is not daft. Waves tend to bring with them wind ( not always I accept ) but if the wind is bearable the seakeeper will likely keep up.

I have never had a boat wake cause any upset which is useful.

Underway don't expect miracles. Does it improve things ? yes. Seakeeper say it is amazing under way and this is not my experience not that of anyone else I know with a gyro.

We now do not leave to dock without it running. The cost of this is the generator runs for days and days at a time - which is what they are built for.

 

[jrudge]

Wondering if the gyro will make a difference to the crew’s day. I’m sure it will be a boon to the guests, but to make sure they get the full benefit you’ll need to have it spooled up by the time they arrive. Meaning the crew will need to kick off three quarters of an hour earlier. Will they strike for extra pay? Is a mutiny likely?

You do and you don't. if you remember then fine. If not you are moving and it does something but not much underway. If you set it to low RPM it will start working about 6000 rpm which takes maybe 20 mins. you then put it to high RPM and it keeps working but gets more effective as there rpm rises.

 

[benjenbav]

If the boat is on shorepower you should be able to spool up by ipad. Crew might still strike, but it would be through fear of redundancy caused by technology

Pressing a button on my iPad before my contracted hours start? Leave it aht, guv.

 

[jrudge]

Boat next to me is a new V55 ( maybe 58? ). He has had lots of air con issues. Lots.

The flaw seems to be that princess use individual compressors for each cabin which are then lined up in the engine room above the engines. This then circulates gas to each air handler rather than cold water.

The central chiller system is far simpler and less likely to leak gas as it is contained in a single box not piped all over the boat. There is a lot less to go wrong and changing air handlers etc is just dealing with water and can be done by anyone as opposed to gas which needs a refrigeration engineer ( in august ...).

Not sure why they did that. I imagine for whatever reason it was cheap as it is certainty not reliable. The dealer has a rack of dead ones in his storage garage.

 

[MapisM]

Princess offer only gyros at 55 feet (as do nearly all other planing boat builders). Fins tend to start at about 70 feet in planing boats.

I see. I'm not up to speed with installations on new boats, but I half recall to have read of vector fins on a P56 some years ago, when they were introduced in the market.
Was that installation eventually aborted for some reason, or am I just dreaming of it?

 

[MapisM]

Not sure why they did that.
I imagine for whatever reason it was cheap as it is certainty not reliable.

Never heard of such system, can you possibly remember the brand?
I guess one advantage is that any failure is not going to involve the whole boat, but that sounds silly anyhow.
BTW, I'm not sure that the different logic per se implies a lower overall cost of the system...

 

[Hurricane]

Boat next to me is a new V55 ( maybe 58? ). He has had lots of air con issues. Lots.

The flaw seems to be that princess use individual compressors for each cabin which are then lined up in the engine room above the engines. This then circulates gas to each air handler rather than cold water.

The central chiller system is far simpler and less likely to leak gas as it is contained in a single box not piped all over the boat. There is a lot less to go wrong and changing air handlers etc is just dealing with water and can be done by anyone as opposed to gas which needs a refrigeration engineer ( in august ...).

Not sure why they did that. I imagine for whatever reason it was cheap as it is certainty not reliable. The dealer has a rack of dead ones in his storage garage.

I think there are pros and cons for each type of system.
A Split DX system (like the Princess one you are referring to) has the advantage that there are multiple systems so less likely to a complete failure.
On the other hand, a single component failing on a chilled water system could mean no A/C at all.

It is quite standard in A/C systems to run pipes containing refrigerant between the condensers and evaporators.
Both chilled water systems and DX systems will need good pipe lagging of course.

The advantage of both these systems is that most of the noise (compressors etc) is kept away from the living areas.
Smaller, self contained systems can be noisy - in comparison.

 

[MapisM]

Pressing a button on my iPad before my contracted hours start? Leave it aht, guv.

I'm not sure that's a big concern, in the great scheme of running a boat.
When (not if) the gyro bearings will fail, THAT is bound to spoil your day much more...

 

[henryf]

Wondering if the gyro will make a difference to the crew’s day. I’m sure it will be a boon to the guests, but to make sure they get the full benefit you’ll need to have it spooled up by the time they arrive. Meaning the crew will need to kick off three quarters of an hour earlier. Will they strike for extra pay? Is a mutiny likely?

I have altered the contracts to reflect that on arrival the gyro button is to be flicked, in return their first cup of coffee will only be charged at £1 rather than normal Fleet services pricing. Toilet paper is still 10p per sheet with an additional comfort charge of 30p per visit on account of the increased stability.

I consider myself a very fair employer....

 

[jfm]

I see. I'm not up to speed with installations on new boats, but I half recall to have read of vector fins on a P56 some years ago, when they were introduced in the market.
Was that installation eventually aborted for some reason, or am I just dreaming of it?

IIRC, that boat belonged to a major shareholder/boss at Sleipner, and was a retrofit by Sleipner, done in Norway. He has since bought a Fleming 55, by the way