New build Princess F55 flybridge

[henryf]

While there are benefits in having the manufacturing elements in-house, there are downsides too. Including costs. Buying in those systems that do not need to smell of Princess, will bring cost and quality savings. Princess will not be at the forefront of harness design and manufacture for example? I ran a review of the production processes of one of Prinny’s competitors, and my colleagues unearthed considerable cost and quality opportunities.

I can understand that as a stand alone manufacturer of one particular component you are able to invest in scale of economy and the very latest technology. Might there be advantages staying in house when it comes to making improvements or changes, when for instance you have to change out a component like the generator ?

I know Princess is not into customisation so that's not relevant, just ongoing improvements and development ?

 

[henryf]

Henry, are you saving the tender for another build thread?

It's one of the things we will be dealing with at Dusseldorf. I have my preferred choice, I just need to feel them up in the flesh.

 

[henryf]

During assembly you get a good sense of where various components and services are located around the boat should problems arise in the future. We’ve taken plenty of photos. By our third visit to the factory the topsides were married to the hull and the boat was really starting to take shape. I was pleased to see that engines were installed meaning they did arrive on time and wouldn’t need retro fitting at the end of the build.

By now I had accepted that we’d got a physical boat and was starting to get excited. There was a very feint glimmer at the end of a still fairly long tunnel.

 

[henryf]

The relationship between Princess sales in Swanwick and the Plymouth factory is obviously a close one. We are probably quite easy customers in that we don’t want any crazy modifications and understand the limitations of production line boat building. But at all stages we feel well looked after. Any questions have been answered and there has been just the right amount of hand holding in terms of making sure we don’t make any mistakes when choosing options. Alan our build manager from Swanwick has made valuable input and at no point have we felt a salesman’s pressure when deciding which boxes to tick.

When we started off on the ordering process a number of people on here talked about protecting payments. We haven’t sought to underwrite our stage payments trusting that Princess will remain financially solvent. Understandably given recent circumstances they have made a nominal loss over recent years but I believe overall they are a relatively safe bet. Ultimately the LVMH family - specifically Bernard Arnault, the world’s richest man and essentially the owner of Princess through various corporate machines doesn’t want me banging on his door with my mate Big Ron, a man of very few words in the middle of the night.

As a company Princess are continuing to invest rather than raid the pantry and cut back for short term gain. Our first couple of big boats were from Fairline and it’s really interesting to see where a lack of investment has placed their product in areas like internal space. In our mid 50 foot sector there’s no way we could buy a Fairline. Sunseeker used to also lag behind but played catch up with the launch of their Manhattan 55.

 

[henryf]

We had a chance to spend some time on the X80 when Princess held an impromptu show in lieu of the cancelled Düsseldorf show. When I first saw the X95 design some years ago I really struggled and even now don’t see it as something I yearn for but the X80 was really good and other than the small matter of five million quid (give or take) I’d have one tomorrow to keep out in Thailand.

Princess have a fine line to tread placating their relatively conservative clientele whilst still remaining current and being at the cutting edge of trends in the market place. We thought long and hard about ordering the F55 given concerns over the environment and a boat which has the ability to consume in excess of 200 litres per hour when pushed hard.

The single most expensive box we ticked was for the Seakeeper 9 gyro stabilisation system. Whilst on the plane a combination of hull design and trim tabs keeps the boat steady, but once you drop down to economic displacement speeds any beam waves can induce uncomfortable roll. I’m hoping the gyro takes the bulk of this away. This will allow us to operate in a very responsible manner and charter to corporate clients keen to honour their environment commitments. However when the need arises we do still have 30 knots on hand. I couldn’t live with a purely displacement design and it wouldn’t work in the charter market. We should also see gains at anchor particularly in more exposed areas like Colwell Bay, home of the ever popular restaurant, The Hut. Even on a good day in the Solent you get a bit of movement from the wake of other craft and particularly for charter guests this can be disturbing when seeking out somewhere to drop the hook.

 

[henryf]

We had some bankers on board this season for a charter who were responsible for the current sale of Princess. In their words everyone want’s to buy a Princess, they just need to find someone who wants to buy Princess. If all the supply chain ducks line up and they can leverage improvements made to the build process Princess will generate a profit. The issue at this stage is component shortages. I guess they are not alone in this regard.

We are currently awaiting our final factory visit when hopefully something that looks very much like an F55 will greet us. Once finished on assembly there are a couple of giant swimming pools where the newly completed boat spends some time having systems checked and initial set up carried out. After that it goes down to the main Newport Street site by lorry overnight and a series of sea trials ensure final checks and calibration.

Once that’s done Princess sales take over and run it round to Swanwick on her own keel. This puts a few hours on the boat and let’s things settle down. They carry out final pre- delivery checks from their side and handover takes place.

One aspect of the build which has surprised me a little is the lack of finance opportunities during construction. As things stand many owners are forced to sell their current boats early and go a full season without a boat to fund the construction process. I naively assumed that with a sensible deposit you could start finance once the hull had been cast but the reality is finance is only available once the finished boat is ready for hand over.

In our case that hasn’t stopped us from operating the charter business, the last thing we want is a break in momentum and client relationships, a recreational user wouldn’t want the lifestyle intrusion but that’s what has to happen in many cases.

 

[henryf]

When visiting the factory we've ended up staying in Royal William Yard. Initially we tried a couple of hotels in Portsmouth but they didn't really tick the box for us although they did allow us to have a wander round Plymouth its self. Royal William is really handy for the main Princess offices and there are a variety of places to grab food. It's also where Princess did the Dusseldorf replacement show.

 

[sharpness]

I find threads like this fascinating, to see what's involved with the build process etc, as already mentioned thank you taking the time to post all of this.
It certainly gives me an appreciation as to how the price of new boats is justified, when you take into account material costs, engines, and the huge array of systems and components needed. Then there's the man hours involved. It all soon adds up.

 

[rafiki_]

It's one of the things we will be dealing with at Dusseldorf. I have my preferred choice, I just need to feel them up in the flesh.

Shame I won’t be with you to add my 6 pennarth. ?

 

[henryf]

I find threads like this fascinating, to see what's involved with the build process etc, as already mentioned thank you taking the time to post all of this.
It certainly gives me an appreciation as to how the price of new boats is justified, when you take into account material costs, engines, and the huge array of systems and components needed. Then there's the man hours involved. It all soon adds up.

There is indeed an awful lot which goes into building a boat and many people will have contributed along the way from the very first bit of GRP matting to the very last polish of lacquer.

 

[jfm]

We've gone with a pair of 16 inch Garmin screens at the upper and lower helms as well as a small 4 inch screen for log / depth etc when not using the big screens - nice to have depth for instance.

48 inch open array radar.

Great choice imho. I'm a big fan of Garmin and I too have specced Garmin on new boat projects. I think you'll like it Not that Raymarine/Simrad isn't great machinery too.
Princess fit the Garmin gear very neatly on F55
The 4inch screens with buttons (GMI20) are about to become de facto obsolete - the new product is TD50, all touch screen. TD50 matches exactly the new touch autopilot control GHC50 that replaces the 4 inch buttoned GHC20 autopilot control. Worthwhile asking Princess to put the new stuff in maybe.

 

[jfm]

Ultimately the LVMH family - specifically Bernard Arnault, the world’s richest man and essentially the owner of Princess through various corporate machines ...

That just isn't correct. P is owned by a series of pension funds and institutional investors, in very small slices each. It is controlled by L Catterton, a US private equity firm that isn't controlled by Arnault/LVMH. LVMH/Mr Arnualt has/have s a very small % exposure to Princess equity. Which is fortunate for them, because as an equity investment it remains deeply underwater vs the c.2007 acquisition price.

Back to boats - have you specced the Fantom open array radar or the normal/magnetron variety? I ran both side by side for the last 4 years on my last boat, so I could make constant side-by-side comparison, and I slightly prefer the Fantom, but it's not a big real world difference and the magnetron version is excellent too.

 

[henryf]

Great choice imho. I'm a big fan of Garmin and I too have specced Garmin on new boat projects. I think you'll like it Not that Raymarine/Simrad isn't great machinery too.
Princess fit the Garmin gear very neatly on F55
The 4inch screens with buttons (GMI20) are about to become de facto obsolete - the new product is TD50, all touch screen. TD50 matches exactly the new touch autopilot control GHC50 that replaces the 4 inch buttoned GHC20 autopilot control. Worthwhile asking Princess to put the new stuff in maybe.

Too late I fear unless they've already done it.

 

[henryf]

That just isn't correct. P is owned by a series of pension funds and institutional investors, in very small slices each. It is controlled by L Catterton, a US private equity firm that isn't controlled by Arnault/LVMH. LVMH/Mr Arnualt has/have s a very small % exposure to Princess equity. Which is fortunate for them, because as an equity investment it remains deeply underwater vs the c.2007 acquisition price.

Back to boats - have you specced the Fantom open array radar or the normal/magnetron variety? I ran both side by side for the last 4 years on my last boat, so I could make constant side-by-side comparison, and I slightly prefer the Fantom, but it's not a big real world difference and the magnetron version is excellent too.

I though of you as I typed Mr A's name

Don't know which array is fitted . I'll post up a full list of spec as outlined by Princess over and above the stuff they include for free. Well by free I mean.....

 

[henryf]

Spec options over and above the stuff you get for free. Some of it you don't really bother thinking about some of it you have to not think about otherwise you've go mad. I'll never question the price of my cans of beans with sausages in Tescos ever again

Princess F55 white hull

D13-900 Volvo Penta engines

Princess china

David Mellor Paris cutlery

Sea Commissioning

Walnut interior, satin finish

Hold function docking facility which includes a 170 kgf variable speed stern thruster

Seakeeper 9 Gyro stabiliser with controls at both helm stations

Walnut floor to aft saloon area

Third cabin to have double berth conversion with powered sliding conversion to twin

Allure styling collection:
Quilting detail to helm seats
Pininfarina steering wheels
Teak step nosing upgrades
Flybridge console wet bar finished in oyster grey
Improvements to forward seating and upgraded exterior fabric choice

Electro - hydraulic bathing platform

Additional 20m anchor chain

Whisper power 18kw generator

AGM 90AH battery upgrade for start and domestic

Icemaker fitted in Saloon

Foredeck freshwater anchor / deck wash system

Exterior lighting upgrade package including accent lighting and pop up lights


Garmin 424 XHD2 Radar with 48 inch open array

Second 16 inch display screen to both lower and upper helm

Garmin 4 inch display to upper and lower helm

AIS 800 Class B transponder

International VHF

78,000 BTU reverse cycle AC / heating suitable for temperatures to 40C (tropical)

Electric black water overboard system which includes a powered seacock

Reticulated foam to all exterior seating including forward sun bed

Exterior covers grey canvas

Bimini top grey canvas
Electro hydraulic operation of Bimini top

Saloon full size dining / coffee table including twin electrically operated leg mechanism

Aft cockpit canopy detail in Metalic Taupe

Grey horizon galley counter

Master stateroom 43 inch TV and audio package with Fusion Apollo MS-RA670 audio in place of MS-SRX400

Fabrics and carpets - whatever the girls said.

 

[Portofino]

“AGM 90AH battery upgrade for start and domestic”
Stands out for me .Exactly what is this ? Typo ??

 

[Chris H]

Great thread Henry………you’ll need to keep selling them old Porsches for a bit longer ?

 

[Parabolica]

There is indeed an awful lot which goes into building a boat and many people will have contributed along the way from the very first bit of GRP matting to the very last polish of lacquer.

and not forgetting long before all ofbthat, the thousands of hours of design and engineering then pattern and toolmaking too !

Adding to your comments about PYL quality. I can confirm as a supplier, that they are very “quality” and on-time delivery focussed. The team there I deal with there are so proud of what they do its unreal, but good to see too.

That said, a good friend who bought a new V55 last year, whilst loving his boat overall told me he’s only really used it four times and three of those were to take it back to Southampton to get the faults list sorted and yet still it comes back with many of those items still not sorted. Having spent that kind of money on a NEW product. The worst of it though is its his time and money spent on returning it each tme. Now that would boil my urine !

 

[MapisM]

Whilst on the plane a combination of hull design and trim tabs keeps the boat steady

I guess you mean that the boat has interceptors rather than traditional trim tabs, because I'm not aware of any trim tabs fast enough to be used as stabilizers.
Actually, I've always been skeptic also about the producers' claims on the effectiveness of interceptors as stabilizers, but if you tried them and found them useful, I for one would be interested to hear more.

 

[roa312]

Spec options over and above the stuff you get for free. Some of it you don't really bother thinking about some of it you have to not think about otherwise you've go mad. I'll never question the price of my cans of beans with sausages in Tescos ever again

Henry (stupid question maybe) can I ask if Princess offer any optional extras regarding sound insulation in the engine room or exhaust system upgrades? When you went for a test drive did you notice any improvement in saloon/flybridge noise levels compared to your P50?