New build Princess F55 flybridge

[henryf]

I have a sk6 in a squadron 58.

It will eliminate the vast majority of roll at anchor if the weather is not daft. Waves tend to bring with them wind ( not always I accept ) but if the wind is bearable the seakeeper will likely keep up.

I have never had a boat wake cause any upset which is useful.

Underway don't expect miracles. Does it improve things ? yes. Seakeeper say it is amazing under way and this is not my experience not that of anyone else I know with a gyro.

We now do not leave to dock without it running. The cost of this is the generator runs for days and days at a time - which is what they are built for.

I’m going in with realistic expectations. Its the SK9 and Solent use means we don’t need to calm Neptune. The worst is boat wake at anchor or when underway slowly.

 

[jrudge]

I think there are pros and cons for each type of system.
A Split DX system (like the Princess one you are referring to) has the advantage that there are multiple systems so less likely to a complete failure.
On the other hand, a single component failing on a chilled water system could mean no A/C at all.

It is quite standard in A/C systems to run pipes containing refrigerant between the condensers and evaporators.
Both chilled water systems and DX systems will need good pipe lagging of course.

The advantage of both these systems is that most of the noise (compressors etc) is kept away from the living areas.
Smaller, self contained systems can be noisy - in comparison.

All water cooled system I have had are two compressors - so there is always going to be one that works. The refrigerant pipes are copper and short so they are not going anywhere. The advantage is that anyone can deal with water.

It is fine to say that one unit will not knock out the whole boat - but it does knock out the area that is broken and there is nothing you can do about it.

On a dual water system you just one one compressor ( which I do 90% of the time anyway).

 

[jrudge]

I’m going in with realistic expectations. Its the SK9 and Solent use means we don’t need to calm Neptune. The worst is boat wake at anchor or when underway slowly.

Boat wake at anchor I can pretty much guarantee will never be an issue again. Mine has never moved regardless of some spaniard with a small boat and an even smaller p%^&% trying to impress his mates that he can enter a bay at 25 kts.

 

[henryf]

Boat wake at anchor I can pretty much guarantee will never be an issue again. Mine has never moved regardless of some spaniard with a small boat and an even smaller p%^&% trying to impress his mates that he can enter a bay at 25 kts.

A regular charter is The Hut in Colwell Bay, Isle of Wight, possibly the worst place you could locate from a prevailing Westerly perspective. It will be nice to offer guests the chance of a stable anchorage.

 

[jrudge]

I went to The Hut about 2 years ago - chartered a rib for the day. It was spectacular and being just after lockdown there seemed to be a competition going on as to just how much it was possible to spend on lunch. Magnums of Champagne, lobster platters etc.

We are staying in Bosham for May and June and if you need crew for a visit do let me know! I hurt my back on the Rib ( twisting round as it landed hard) - my girlfriend suggested hiring it again the other day to goto The Hut but given it has taken 2 years to get my back right I may pass!

I am not at all keen on English coastal restaurants, but The Hut was a glaring exception - helped by amazing - but cold - weather.

 

[henryf]

I went to The Hut about 2 years ago - chartered a rib for the day. It was spectacular and being just after lockdown there seemed to be a competition going on as to just how much it was possible to spend on lunch. Magnums of Champagne, lobster platters etc.

We are staying in Bosham for May and June and if you need crew for a visit do let me know! I hurt my back on the Rib ( twisting round as it landed hard) - my girlfriend suggested hiring it again the other day to goto The Hut but given it has taken 2 years to get my back right I may pass!

I am not at all keen on English coastal restaurants, but The Hut was a glaring exception - helped by amazing - but cold - weather.

I’d hated the hut for ever. They always keep hold of charter guests for ages and send them back full of magnums of Rose wine.

One of our last charters was there last season dropping off in Lymington, so we stayed overnight in Yarmouth allowing us to take a tide east the next day. As it was my birthday I thought sod it, and got a table for lunch. Obviously arrived by boat as it’s a short potter round from Yarmouth.

Went there with the right frame of mind and had a really lovely time. Joked with the manager as to why such a great restaurant would carry sponsorship on the crew clothing from the second best boat builder…..

Had to deal with Mrs Henry F full of Rose wine for the rest of the afternoon though ?

 

[jfm]

All water cooled system I have had are two compressors - so there is always going to be one that works. The refrigerant pipes are copper and short so they are not going anywhere. The advantage is that anyone can deal with water.

It is fine to say that one unit will not knock out the whole boat - but it does knock out the area that is broken and there is nothing you can do about it.

On a dual water system you just one one compressor ( which I do 90% of the time anyway).

100% agree J. On my last boat I ran only one out of the two compressors for 95% of the time.
Next boat has 3 and I expect to run one or 2 only.
I wouldn't specify or accept a split gas multi-compressor system like the Princess you referred to. The pre-evo F55 did not have this system (see Aquaholic at 8:52) so I guess Henryf's boat wont either.
As a bit of conversation drift, when building a new boat you need imho to spec aircon compressors whose motor is driven by a variable frequency drive (aka inverter) so that the scroll compressor rpm is varied, instead of an on/off constant rpm motor. These weren't easily available 10 years ago but are now, including from the big supplier dometic (aka cruiseair, marineair, condaria). This is well worth the upgrade price imho. No idea whether F55 has this or offers the option.

 

[jrudge]

The good news was you could loose it as a market research expense!

 

[jrudge]

100% agree J. On my last boat I ran only one out of the two compressors for 95% of the time.
Next boat has 3 and I expect to run one or 2 only.
I wouldn't specify or accept a split gas multi-compressor system like the Princess you referred to. The pre-evo F55 did not have this system (see Aquaholic at 8:52) so I guess Henryf's boat wont either.
As a bit of conversation drift, when building a new boat you need imho to spec aircon compressors whose motor is driven by a variable frequency drive (aka inverter) so that the scroll compressor rpm is varied, instead of an on/off constant rpm motor. These weren't easily available 10 years ago but are now, including from the big supplier dometic (aka cruiseair, marineair, condaria). This is well worth the upgrade price imho. No idea whether F55 has this or offers the option.

the boat next to me was delivered in April 2022 so it was being done like that very recently.

 

[jfm]

See 11:29 of aquaholic's V55 review - shows the same split gas system. Work of the devil, imho. So this must be the spec of V55, and fortunately not the F55.

 

[jrudge]

That is good news - assumed the F55 was a V55 with a flybridge dunked on top. The one next to me had more of these units - 5 I believe.

Servicing the V55 generator would be "interesting" to service looking at its location.

 

[jfm]

That is good news - assumed the F55 was a V55 with a flybridge dunked on top. The one next to me had more of these units - 5 I believe.

Servicing the V55 generator would be "interesting" to service looking at its location.

Eek I think I'm mistaken in my post above where I linked to Aquaholic's F55 video. From this video at 16:41 it appears the F55 uses the same split gas system as v55, not chilled water. Located in a different place from V55. Erk. Nothing to be done about this and fingers crossed it works ok for you Henry.

Generator access on F55 looks good. Nice that it has a Reverso fitted - that's probably an option.

 

[Portofino]

Here Single-phase Chiller Unit-Inverter BLDC - FRIGOMAR
I was an early adopter of this variation frequency AC motor tech .
Its silent as well inc it’s air handlers in the cabins .
But the low running Amp mean loadsa geny headroom or spec a smaller gen set .
Your shore power pedestal never cuts out in August either at dodgy marinas while your neighbours does if the pontoon is rammed . You sleep through it AC on cool.

Been very impressed since 2014 .

Its at the top end price wise was 2-3 X conventional ( back then ) Marin air gear .

 

[Portofino]

Boat next to me is a new V55 ( maybe 58? ). He has had lots of air con issues. Lots.

The flaw seems to be that princess use individual compressors for each cabin which are then lined up in the engine room above the engines. This then circulates gas to each air handler rather than cold water.

The central chiller system is far simpler and less likely to leak gas as it is contained in a single box not piped all over the boat. There is a lot less to go wrong and changing air handlers etc is just dealing with water and can be done by anyone as opposed to gas which needs a refrigeration engineer ( in august ...).

Not sure why they did that. I imagine for whatever reason it was cheap as it is certainty not reliable. The dealer has a rack of dead ones in his storage garage.

Just re reading Frigomar s blurb and stumbled across this . You certainly have a good point ,

 

[Elessar]

Eek I think I'm mistaken in my post above where I linked to Aquaholic's F55 video. From this video at 16:41 it appears the F55 uses the same split gas system as v55, not chilled water. Located in a different place from V55. Erk. Nothing to be done about this and fingers crossed it works ok for you Henry.

Generator access on F55 looks good. Nice that it has a Reverso fitted - that's probably an option.

I had a brand new reverso fail after about 10 mins of use. I was in 4 mile deep water in the middle of biscay and had emptied one of the engines but then it failed. You know the boat I mean! The oil I had was in huge barrels I had no small cans, no funnels etc. Love the idea but use them in port!!

 

[henryf]

100% agree J. On my last boat I ran only one out of the two compressors for 95% of the time.
Next boat has 3 and I expect to run one or 2 only.
I wouldn't specify or accept a split gas multi-compressor system like the Princess you referred to. The pre-evo F55 did not have this system (see Aquaholic at 8:52) so I guess Henryf's boat wont either.
As a bit of conversation drift, when building a new boat you need imho to spec aircon compressors whose motor is driven by a variable frequency drive (aka inverter) so that the scroll compressor rpm is varied, instead of an on/off constant rpm motor. These weren't easily available 10 years ago but are now, including from the big supplier dometic (aka cruiseair, marineair, condaria). This is well worth the upgrade price imho. No idea whether F55 has this or offers the option.

I can’t remember if there are 3 or 4

 

[henryf]

Eek I think I'm mistaken in my post above where I linked to Aquaholic's F55 video. From this video at 16:41 it appears the F55 uses the same split gas system as v55, not chilled water. Located in a different place from V55. Erk. Nothing to be done about this and fingers crossed it works ok for you Henry.

Generator access on F55 looks good. Nice that it has a Reverso fitted - that's probably an option.

You pipped me to the post I was going to ask what the difference was.

I know on the larger stuff Princess fit more commercial air conditioning with insulated pipes with arrows pointing in the direction of flow everywhere, like the sort of thing you see on a big ship.

The F55 and our current P50 has separate compressors which feed air handling units. The P50 has 3 units, two in the engine bay - not hung over the engine, and one behind a pull off panel in the crew cabin toilet.

In 10 years we’ve had to change one of the compressor units. We didn’t lose everything, just the forward cabin heating / AC.

Do builders fit a different type of system to this on 55 foot boats? I understand JFM’s new superyacht might but 55 footers?

The one thing I’ve never been a fan of and Princess have been guilty is hanging A/C units above engines meaning they have to be removed to gain access to routine service items. It’s hard enough working on marine engines. I’d be annoyed paying several hundred pounds in labour just to get access to something like an air filter and of course we all know what will actually happen - they’ll just get left unchanged.

I think the V Class boats have a harder job to accommodate everything in the engine room with the garage there as well. More space on a flybridge.

 

[jfm]

The F55 ... has separate compressors which feed air handling units.

It doesn't. It has compressors in the engine room feeding refrigerant to remote evaporator units (not air handlers) in the cabins

Do builders fit a different type of system to this on 55 foot boats? I understand JFM’s new superyacht might but 55 footers?

Yes absolutely they do. Many fit the system you'd choose if you had a free choice, which is to have the compressor and evaporator in a single unit in the engine room and then pump chilled water to dumb air handlers in the cabins. The refrigerant quantity is therefore much less in terms of kgs and is all in the engine room or plant room, never in the living accommodation. Also if you have multiple compressors (usually 2 if you're up to 80 feet, and three if you're 100 feet) then you have back up/redundancy in that any compressor can chill any/all cabins, so no guests even notice if a compressor fails

 

[jrudge]

My squadron 58 has chilled water cooled by two engine rooms chillers which work independently. Mine is 2004.

I looked at a Manhattan 50 and that had The stand alone units ( noisy all in one things )

I would have thought that anything more than 50 ft would have had central chillers.

 

[jfm]

I had a brand new reverso fail after about 10 mins of use. I was in 4 mile deep water in the middle of biscay and had emptied one of the engines but then it failed. You know the boat I mean! The oil I had was in huge barrels I had no small cans, no funnels etc. Love the idea but use them in port!!

I remember that boat and the Reverso wasn't the only thing that broke That is a rather annoying What Now Skipper situation you faced. I've never had one fail but yes that's' good advice to use it only in port, otherwise carry a back up pump.