NECO Autopilot Update

[Captain Steve]

I was thrilled to find this thread and that it was still current. We circumnavigated the world from Fort Lauderdale and back 1993-2004 with our NECO on a 1985 AMEL Sharki. In 2010 the boat was hit by lightning and the NECO head was fried. I had the local NECO expert repair it but it failed as soon as turned on.

I replaced it with a SIMRAD NAC2 (I think I would have purchased an NAC3 if I had read this thread before so I could bypass the NECO drive relays). In any case it all works well and I haven't had any problems with the setup.

My relays are getting quite pitted (last replaced in 1994 and 45,000 nautical miles ago). I noticed that TYCO has closed and been purchased by Johnson controls. Does anyone know of a source for identical relays for the old ones?

What are other options. I know one other Sharki had external replays installed but I didn't pay any attention to the details at the time. Silly me.

 

[tillergirl]

I bought a pair fo Relays in December, 2019 via the Mouser UK people. The product was:
https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDet...IW35ofYLfWQ==&countrycode=GB&currencycode=GBP

There are 41 in stock at the moment.

I hope this helps

 

[Captain Steve]

Thank you so much. Mouser in the US has them in stock!!!!

 

[tillergirl]

Yes, the 2019 stock was in Texas (I think). I ordered on the Tuesday and received the items in the UK on the Friday.

 

[danielefua]

I was thrilled to find this thread and that it was still current. We circumnavigated the world from Fort Lauderdale and back 1993-2004 with our NECO on a 1985 AMEL Sharki. In 2010 the boat was hit by lightning and the NECO head was fried. I had the local NECO expert repair it but it failed as soon as turned on.

I replaced it with a SIMRAD NAC2 (I think I would have purchased an NAC3 if I had read this thread before so I could bypass the NECO drive relays). In any case it all works well and I haven't had any problems with the setup.

My relays are getting quite pitted (last replaced in 1994 and 45,000 nautical miles ago). I noticed that TYCO has closed and been purchased by Johnson controls. Does anyone know of a source for identical relays for the old ones?

What are other options. I know one other Sharki had external replays installed but I didn't pay any attention to the details at the time. Silly me.

You already had the right suggestion but I need to add a couple of things.
1) before ordering you should check if your system has indeed 12V relays. There are some older Necos's at 24V which had relays at this voltage; later at Neco they decided that, for uniformity, it was better to install 12V relays in all the systems and inserted a proper resistor to lower the voltage when needed.
2) notwithstanding what you may read on the net, using relays is the best way to drive the Neco motor. In principle it is possible to use also solid state electronics (high power FET's) but a special circuit must be built and, according to my experience, it is not as reliable as the relays. Moreover the power units of the commercially available autopilots are NOT able to drive a Neco motor of the "compound type" without a proper interface.
3) your experience confirms my own experience that, at the end, the relays that the Neco engineers installed are extremely reliable and there is no need of new creative ideas.
4) It is a pity that your "local NECO expert" was not able to fix the original fried Control Unit. Sorry to say that but... I do not think he/she was a really "NECO expert". On the other hand, you now have a very good Control Unit with all the thrills and chills of modern inter connectivity

Daniel

 

[Captain Steve]

Thanks for this additional useful information. The problem with repairs after a lightning strike is the issue of "cascading failures", which seems to be common. The "local" guy had moved a few hundred miles away so I was dealing with a lot of shipping and just didn't want to continue. While I am now aware of the potential issues of modern network linked instruments, they are great when they are working. Now the NECO has some options such as wind direction steering, course steering etc. I haven't had much luck with those yet but haven't tried too much. With the NECO, we always had the ability to steer the boat with the autopilot under any conditions when many others were reduced to hand steering, especially in heavy downwind sailing. I found that if the NECO was having trouble, I needed to trim the boat as I would be having more trouble if I tried to hand steer.

 

[derryconbill]

Hi. I have a Broom 37 fitted with a Neco 692. the autopilot is faulty, I have changed the heading compass for one that is known to be working, the motor is operating as it should, one fault with the head is if you set the course setter to your current course and turn the AP on the helm immediately goes fully to starboard (right)then fully to Port (left) and will then stabilize somewhere in the middle, if you touch the course setter at all it will repeat again, advice would be greatly appreciated,
Thank you

 

[tillergirl]

Daniele is the guy to speak to (see threads above #65 and previous ). He is the world expert; he may deny it but he is. I have sent hime an email to alert him of your thread.

I have some unused parts which might be useful once Daniele has advised.

 

[derryconbill]

Thank you tillergirl, I will wait for Daniele to contact me, very much appreciated.

 

[danielefua]

Thank you tillergirl, I will wait for Daniele to contact me, very much appreciated.

Hi derryconbill,
the problem you have with your Neco 692 is quite common after many years of operation and it is easily fixed at little cost. Do not even consider to change your classics autopilot with a new one

Please contact me at neco.autopilot.info@gmail.com and I will help you fix it yourself.
The above address is my public address for helping other Neco users; it is not a commercial one and it is available to everyone who needs help.
I hope it is not a problem to post it but if it is a problem the forum moderators are welcome to cancel it; in this case, please, write a PM directly to me.

 

[CanePazzo]

Hi derryconbill,
the problem you have with your Neco 692 is quite common after many years of operation and it is easily fixed at little cost. Do not even consider to change your classics autopilot with a new one

Please contact me at neco.autopilot.info@gmail.com and I will help you fix it yourself.
The above address is my public address for helping other Neco users; it is not a commercial one and it is available to everyone who needs help.
I hope it is not a problem to post it but if it is a problem the forum moderators are welcome to cancel it; in this case, please, write a PM directly to me.

Good evening. I am just pulling apart my Oyster 46 from 1981 and part of my thought process was to update the old Neco auto pilot to a newer system, but looking at this thread, I am interested in keeping the old stand alone Neco autopilot. I guess it will always consume more power than a modern unit? Daniele, I note that you are based in Ancona? Sono a Viareggio.

 

[danielefua]

Good evening. I am just pulling apart my Oyster 46 from 1981 and part of my thought process was to update the old Neco auto pilot to a newer system, but looking at this thread, I am interested in keeping the old stand alone Neco autopilot. I guess it will always consume more power than a modern unit? Daniele, I note that you are based in Ancona? Sono a Viareggio.

Hi CanePazzo,
frankly I am not sure that the old Neco will consume more power than a modern unit; maybe a little more because the drive unit does not have a permanent magnet but I doubt that this aspect it is so relevant with respect to other things like, for example, a good balance of the boat herself. The drive unit is quite powerful but if the boat is well balanced such a power is not used and the consumption is low.
I understand that keeping the old Neco is a very personal choice mainly based on other aspects; I chose it and, believe me, there are still many sailors who made the same choice.
If you decide to go ahead with it, I will be very happy to help you. I indeed live in Ancona, not very far from you, but my help will consist essentially in teaching you how to fix yourself the Neco. Please contact me directly to the mentioned address.

 

[patrickg]

I thought I would add on to this old topic. I had some trouble with my Neco autopilot a few years ago and realized it would be easier to go ahead and connect the Neco drive unit to our Raymarine chart plotter. A lot of the information on the internet says you must have an autopilot computer that operates solenoids. Instead of going that conventional route, it was much cheaper for me to find one without. I used two relays to change the reversing current to two positive outputs on the Raymarine autopilot. We used the unit for 14 days offshore and it worked flawlessly for the entire trip. If somebody would like more info on how to get their Neco connected to a modern autopilot I can probably steer them in the right direction.

 

[danielefua]

I thought I would add on to this old topic. I had some trouble with my Neco autopilot a few years ago and realized it would be easier to go ahead and connect the Neco drive unit to our Raymarine chart plotter. A lot of the information on the internet says you must have an autopilot computer that operates solenoids. Instead of going that conventional route, it was much cheaper for me to find one without. I used two relays to change the reversing current to two positive outputs on the Raymarine autopilot. We used the unit for 14 days offshore and it worked flawlessly for the entire trip. If somebody would like more info on how to get their Neco connected to a modern autopilot I can probably steer them in the right direction.

I am very sorry to contradict posts but your letter has several inaccuracies which need a comment.

1) "a lot of information on the internet" you cite, actually originates from me and, although I am not a professional, the way to deal with a compound motor like the Neco 17DR8 or 35DR8 is widely accepted in the community of electrical engineers.
2) not ALL Neco Drive Units are "compound motors" like the nnDR8; i.e. some of them do not need the "solenoid" way.
3) the word "solenoid" from the electrical point of view of the controlling side, is exactly as the word "relay".
4) last but not least because this is the important point: if a device is not made explicitly to drive relays (or solenoids) it may not be able to drive them at all.
To be more specific: its voltage output might be too low to trigger the activation of a relay or it might be switching ON and OFF too fast for a relay to respond. This last behavior can be found in the modern autopilots whose output is "proportional" and use what is called Pulse Width Modulation technique.

I add for completeness that although a compound motor like the nnDR8 needs "relays" to be driven, the relays themselves could be very well substituted by "solid state relays" or similar circuitry which will overcome the problems of point 4. But this is a totally different subject.

To summarize: I am not discrediting your experience which may be perfectly right but I am warning that it might not be generally applicable.

 

[patrickg]

If I get some free time I’ll put together more detailed information and photos of my setup so you can fill in the gaps with your expertise. My setup should work with any current autopilot designed to control a hydraulic motor. It should also work with any NECO motor regardless of power draw or voltage.

 

[derryconbill]

Advice please, I have a Broom Ocean 37 fitted with a Neco 692 autopilot, this was not wired up when I bought the boat it had been disconnected (probably for safety) with lots of help from members of this group I managed to get it to run but its unreliable and for no reason it takes a dive to port or starboard as if its lost,, because of this we have no confidence in it and would like to replace the head and compass for something a little more modern, I would like to keep the drive unit as its attached to the Whitlock steering, the system is 12volt could someone please advice what autopilot and auxiliaries I need to make a reliable straight line steering pilot for my boat, There seems to be lots of autopilot controllers for sale but which one will work for me and what do I need to go with it, I live on the West coast of Ireland and help and advice is a long way from here, Thank you

 

[tillergirl]

I have a Neco 692 drive unit which is now 'mated' to an Onwa KAP 866. Works brilliantly. Aves marine Onwa KAP-866 Autopilot

The 'mating' is quite simple and cane be achieved by you. There is a little changing in the Drive Unit to be done but merely needs an additional relay (an auto style relay for a few pounts), removal of the rudder feedback unit (easy - the KAP866 includes a feedback unit) and some wires removed. I can supply you details how to do this.

My Neco Control Unit failed (the PCB had failed - it sounds like a capitator has failed in your Control Unit). There are some test that can be done courtesy of Daniele Fua who is the world expert.

 

[danielefua]

Advice please, I have a Broom Ocean 37 fitted with a Neco 692 autopilot, this was not wired up when I bought the boat it had been disconnected (probably for safety) with lots of help from members of this group I managed to get it to run but its unreliable and for no reason it takes a dive to port or starboard as if its lost,, because of this we have no confidence in it and would like to replace the head and compass for something a little more modern, I would like to keep the drive unit as its attached to the Whitlock steering, the system is 12volt could someone please advice what autopilot and auxiliaries I need to make a reliable straight line steering pilot for my boat, There seems to be lots of autopilot controllers for sale but which one will work for me and what do I need to go with it, I live on the West coast of Ireland and help and advice is a long way from here, Thank you

I was going to reply but my friend Roger (aka tillergirl) was faster
I strongly suggest to follow tillergirl's advice. He's become practically my "Neco secret agent in UK" since he learnt a lot of things about the 692 and successfully completed his project to match the old Neco Drive Unit to a new autopilot system.
I am sure that you will also be happy of your project and, please, do not take into account possible disparaging remarks about the Neco Drive Unit; with a new healthy controller it will steer your boat perfectly for many years to come.
Daniel

 

[derryconbill]

I have a Neco 692 drive unit which is now 'mated' to an Onwa KAP 866. Works brilliantly. Aves marine Onwa KAP-866 Autopilot

The 'mating' is quite simple and cane be achieved by you. There is a little changing in the Drive Unit to be done but merely needs an additional relay (an auto style relay for a few pounts), removal of the rudder feedback unit (easy - the KAP866 includes a feedback unit) and some wires removed. I can supply you details how to do this.

My Neco Control Unit failed (the PCB had failed - it sounds like a capitator has failed in your Control Unit). There are some test that can be done courtesy of Daniele Fua who is the world expert.

I have a Neco 692 drive unit which is now 'mated' to an Onwa KAP 866. Works brilliantly. Aves marine Onwa KAP-866 Autopilot

The 'mating' is quite simple and cane be achieved by you. There is a little changing in the Drive Unit to be done but merely needs an additional relay (an auto style relay for a few pounts), removal of the rudder feedback unit (easy - the KAP866 includes a feedback unit) and some wires removed. I can supply you details how to do this.

My Neco Control Unit failed (the PCB had failed - it sounds like a capitator has failed in your Control Unit). There are some test that can be done courtesy of Daniele Fua who is the world expert.

Hi Tillergirl
That is great advice, thank you, I will get organised and contact Aves Marine, my boat has twin helms so there may be a remote or second station controller too, Any advice from your own installation would be greatly appreciated,

 

[derryconbill]

I was going to reply but my friend Roger (aka tillergirl) was faster
I strongly suggest to follow tillergirl's advice. He's become practically my "Neco secret agent in UK" since he learnt a lot of things about the 692 and successfully completed his project to match the old Neco Drive Unit to a new autopilot system.
I am sure that you will also be happy of your project and, please, do not take into account possible disparaging remarks about the Neco Drive Unit; with a new healthy controller it will steer your boat perfectly for many years to come.
Daniel

Thank you Daniel, Tillergirl has come up with great advice for me, certainly seems to be the way forward,