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doug748

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Really? I don't remember much ridiculing a couple of years ago. Who was responsible for that?


Nobody worth mentioning. I thought post 6 was a joke. Maybe not.

I had my first handheld GPS, capable of handling sufficient waypoints to function as a crude plotter, around the start of this forum, I can't recall much moaning though you always get one; it's an internet feature nothing to do with the topic at hand.

As soon as I clapped eyes on the real thing, I had one, no brainer.

.
 

[199490]

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Of course maybe i pad is out of date / fashion 😩
Ive installed the latest 13 in air alongside my Garmin Display and have the VNF Navi app, Google or Apple Maps and teh Victron battery app up on that most of the time. Currently playing around with getting the boat fluid levels up too via the Gerbo.
 

MontyMariner

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Actually I have to say we use radar at night and in fog. It is not safe to rely on AIS.
A sensible approach, Ok for bigger boats but given your fog scenario, I aim this at mainly paper chart navigators, let's say it's a small open mobo out for a day's fishing and the fog comes in. A compass and local knowledge will get you in, but now that you can put charting apps on a smart phone, using that and knowing with confidence when to make any turns and know exactly where your destination is, what's not to like?
 

Sailing steve

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In the meantime new electronic kit arrived every day it seemed and I never did learn to use it. Someone was going to teach me how to put Way Points on a plotter thing but he had problems elsewhere so those lessons were never learned.
I was well aware that a little knowledge can be a bad thing, so rather than try to learn the new techniques I stayed away, working on the theory that at least I was competent with the old system, but to try fiddling with a system that I didn't know could result in me berthing in Piccadilly Circus.

I learned to navigate in the '70s and I feel your pain.

My current boat came with an expensive chartplotter and an instruction book of 100+ pages. I'm sure it does what it's meant to do but after much thumbing back and forth and poking of buttons and getting way out of my depth in the miniate of electronic navigation whilst repeatedly fighting off the temptation to simply unplug the wretched thing and lob it overboard I eventually found the screen displaying my SOG and lat/long.

Happily when you switch it back on it displays that same screen and until my son comes for a sail that'll have to do for me.
 

johnalison

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Actually I have to say we use radar at night and in fog. It is not safe to rely on AIS. AIS is indeed more accurate than radar and it is brilliant at forecasting CPA's but there are many vessels out there not broadcasting their position and you need radar particularly if visibility is poor. I can usually spot a vessel on radar way before I can see its lights. Having both gives me great confidence.
Yes, I too have been using radar for over twenty years but I was really thinking of its use for inexperienced sailors sailing in clear daytime weather, when AIS can still be useful and a great reassurance.
 

Boathook

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I had radar before AIS, and last year was in Poole bay in thick fog. radar is a standalone Furuno one whilst the AIS is shown on the plotter screen. Whilst a lot of boats showed up using the AIS the radar showed that at least 50% didn't have AIS. Fog and inshore waters means radar is king to me.

I was tempted to renew the radar to one that will show on the plotter, but the hybrid plotter (raymarine es7) has lost use of the touch screen so it will be a new plotter first.
 

lustyd

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Which is fine all the time it is working.

I've been on a couple of lifeboat jobs this year where a plotter has conked out. On one of them, the singlehanded skipper couldn't see his mobile phone screen in the bright sunlight, he was unfamiliar with the area, the breeze was getting up, he didn't have any paper charts as a back up, and large sandbanks were starting to appear all around him as the tide ebbed.
That’s not a consequence of the technology. That skipper would be in trouble regardless of the decade.
 

johnalison

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That’s not a consequence of the technology. That skipper would be in trouble regardless of the decade.
I think it is. The skipper might not have gone to sea without the help from his tech. Alternatively, he might have taken charts, but then again, possibly not.
 

rogerthebodger

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How’s that different? Idiots have always been overconfident and underprepared. Tech changes nothing in that regard.

That does not only apply to navigation. When you are overconfident, and /or underprepared you need to be adaptable nut the overconfident and underprepared are generally not adaptable
 

johnalison

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How’s that different? Idiots have always been overconfident and underprepared. Tech changes nothing in that regard.
The question is whether the technology was the cause of his predicament. I would say that it was the presence of his technology that tempted him into going beyond what was sensible or prudent. Of course, charts can blow overboard and various mishaps occur, but very easiness of navigation today must be very tempting to the less prepared.
 

lustyd

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The question is whether the technology was the cause of his predicament. I would say that it was the presence of his technology that tempted him into going beyond what was sensible or prudent. Of course, charts can blow overboard and various mishaps occur, but very easiness of navigation today must be very tempting to the less prepared.
You’re suggesting nobody was overconfident with a chart. You’re wrong. Tech isn’t the issue here, you’re showing a bias against tech.
 

johnalison

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You’re suggesting nobody was overconfident with a chart. You’re wrong. Tech isn’t the issue here, you’re showing a bias against tech.
Not at all. Although no pioneer, I got my first Decca in 1988, GPS in 1999, radar/plotter in 2000 and class B AIS about ten years ago. The point is that tech makes a major aspect of sailing much easier, which itself may lead a few without traditional skills or equipment to overstretch themselves. Of course there have always been reckless nutters such as Chay Blyth and not all of them got away with it. It is just that new tech has removed some risks, but in a few cases may have introduced others.
 

lustyd

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makes a major aspect of sailing much easier, which itself may lead a few without traditional skills or equipment to overstretch themselves
Owning a chart and compass had the same effect previously. Just like reading a map, how hard can it be? Nothing to do with technology despite your obvious feelings on the subject.
 

cherod

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Of course there have always been reckless nutters such as Chay Blyth and not all of them got away with it.
Wrong , to suggest that where some with ability succeed are “ reckless nutters “ because some others without ability fail is a particularly jaundiced attitude , never doubt others because of ones own limitations . This is one of the malaise of the new age 😩
 

johnalison

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Wrong , to suggest that where some with ability succeed are “ reckless nutters “ because some others without ability fail is a particularly jaundiced attitude , never doubt others because of ones own limitations . This is one of the malaise of the new age 😩
Of course Chay Blyth was bonkers, setting off without even knowing how to sail, but he was savvy enough to take a book with him to tell him how to do it. Needless to say, I only introduced him to lighten the mood. He was, though, an exceptionally resourceful individual, which most of us are not, and those who go to sea include the whole spectrum of common-sensenesses. All the advances in boating, from cheapest fibreglass boats and small diesel engines to modern navigation have helped, or tempted, many of us to take up sailing. I have no doubt that all any of us want is for sailors to enjoy the sport in safety. The large numbers involved means that a fair number of Captain Calamities will get into difficulties of their own making. The place of tech in their lives is hard to assess. I am only suggesting that as well as helping the majority it may also occasionally tempt others into going further than their abilities justify.
 

oldmanofthehills

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My wife had not sailed yachts till 20 years ago and her dinghy sailing needed no navigation.

Our then boat had dodgy electrics and chart plotter. Sailing from Ilfracombe to Lundy one night we had great trouble in violent rain storm as plotter was playing up and the helm could not see the compass as its face was a waterfall. Very trying as swell kept twisting us as we motor sailed and it was hard to actually see waves (we felt them alright). Even I only relaxed once we could see and point at Lundy South Light.

However on another occasion shortly after we left Scilly at 0300, after creeping in the pitch black night out of New Grimsby sound past nearly invisible moored yachts and starting to head for Padstow the whole lot shut down again. This time however I had a compass by the helm, and though my wife was nervous as I buried my head in the wiring I pointed out that in the starry night Orion was behind us and if she kept a suitable star ahead she would be ok till dawn and without continually turning on torch to see compass.

Just like the old days. It was a fair wind and she seemed to enjoy herself
 
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