Motor Sailers?

boatmike

boatmike

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As a committed catamaran sailer this question may come as a surprise but PEREGRINE (a Prout Elite) was built primarily for blue water. When my late wife died my blue water ambitions had to be modified somewhat and although she is a superb channel cruiser, she is not ideal for what I want to do now, so I am considering a change. New SWMBO and I just got back from 4 weeks in Brittany and CI and the highlight of the trip for her was going up the Rance to Dinan. She enjoys offshore sailing OK but we are thinking that perhaps now what would be right for us is a boat that will be seaworthy and comfortable as a liveaboard for 3-6 month stints mainly spent exploring the inland canals and waterways of Europe but capable of offshore work in moderate conditions too. Frankly PEREGRINE at 5 metres will go down canals but as the locks are mainly 5.2 it's a bit tight! I looked at a Cromarty 36 Motor Sailer recently and it looked ideal but even then the air draught might mean I am a bit tight for certain routes as the stated maximum seems to be around 2.4 metres (7.9feet) I could of course trade down to a smaller cat but what else is there? I need to keep draught down to 1.4 metres or less, and want a boat with good accommodation which probably means no smaller than 32 ft and ideally about 36.
I have even thought (horror of horrors) that maybe I don't need a sailboat at all an a motorboat would be best but I dont want a gin palace with honking great engines either as I want to keep the fuel cost down and only need about 6-7 knots capability.....
Any ideas folorumites? Lift keel? Southerly perhaps? Dunno.......
 
Southerly 115, I think from memory Grehan took his through the French Canals.

I know a couple of Moody 346's bilge keels have also transited with no problem.

One idea might be to have the mast removed in France at the start of the canals and have it stored and then shipped to whever you end up for putting back on?
 
If you go the mobo route, a Broom might be a good compromise. They're well-built and will look after you but they're not overly gin palace types. Although most are now built with a twin engine installation and go accordingly, you will find quite a lot built predominently for inland waterway use, with a single engine and speeds in single figures. For some reason, I seem to think that there are quite a lot of these in Eire. Hulls are semi-displacement rather than an out-and-out planing configuration.

Just one warning: there's a tendency for some of the more low-life types on Mobo Chat to start making jokes about the need for net curtains and Stannah Stairlifts to be fitted to your Broom as extras..... but you don't seem to be looking for something with a "Bright Young Thing" image? :D
 
gtuson said:
I know of a good m/s for your purpose. Roamer 36 wheelhouse ketch. Steel hulled, triple keel draft 1.2mtrs. Extensively travelled french canals. Spacious......pm if would like more info
Click to expand...

Yes indeed, that looks to be a good contender and the steel hull, GRP topsides would make her a contender without a doubt and I have an affinity for steel anyway. If I go this way I will have to sell PEREGRINE first though so it won't be this year. Just considering options at the moment (unless you know anyone who wants to swap for a blue water catamaran)
 
jhr said:
If you go the mobo route, a Broom might be a good compromise. They're well-built and will look after you but they're not overly gin palace types. Although most are now built with a twin engine installation and go accordingly, you will find quite a lot built predominently for inland waterway use, with a single engine and speeds in single figures. For some reason, I seem to think that there are quite a lot of these in Eire. Hulls are semi-displacement rather than an out-and-out planing configuration.

Just one warning: there's a tendency for some of the more low-life types on Mobo Chat to start making jokes about the need for net curtains and Stannah Stairlifts to be fitted to your Broom as extras..... but you don't seem to be looking for something with a "Bright Young Thing" image? :D
Click to expand...

Yes I guess that is one way forward and I am trying to keep an open mind but I can't seem to get very excited by motor boats.... unless I could afford a Nelson or Halmatic.... but I don't have a spare 1/4 million squids......
 
Iota said:
Southerly 115, I think from memory Grehan took his through the French Canals.

I know a couple of Moody 346's bilge keels have also transited with no problem.

One idea might be to have the mast removed in France at the start of the canals and have it stored and then shipped to whever you end up for putting back on?
Click to expand...

Yes I think the Southerly is a contender but as an old fart who would like to sail all year round I think a heavier displacement motor sailer might be more comfy and in keeping with my determination to keep afloat till I really am in my dotage....... I like the comfy armchairs see.....
 
Southerly's are very comfortable sailing, motoring and tied up. Never owned one but been on a few and they are impressive.

What about a Nauticat 33? you get the comfy armchair look and feel and relatively shallow draft. Only been for drinks on one so don't know what they are like at sea.
 
jhr said:
I was going to suggest a Nauticat 33 myself, but I think they draw 1.6 metres, so they carry a bit more underneath than Mike wants?
Click to expand...

Yes they do. Also you have to watch the airdraught for the canals and some motorsailers have pretty high wheelhouses. Actually this makes the lift keel option very attractive but I prefer a more traditional approach with ketch rig as it makes the masts easier to stow on deck. The Cromarty mast is the same length as the boat so no overhang..... Other ketches are similar. I have seen a few steel hulled ones.... excellent for ramming lock gates and scraping sides.... Just take a pot of paint!
 
Just a thought to consider, if spending a lot of time on the canals having a liveable deckhouse makes the world seem bigger - especially when raining..............on which note I would suggest at least a well covered wheel shelter if not a wheelhouse.............

Also whilst carrying a mast onboard is doable, can be a PITA onboard - and if leaving somewhere means you have to return same route.
 
My parents find their Jeanneau Espace 1000 very comfy to live on. It doesn't point very well but sails better than many motorsailers, and has a 50Hp engine for windward work.

They did a lift keel version but I don't know how many were made. My dad's fin keel draws 5'6" I think.
 
David_Jersey said:
Just a thought to consider, if spending a lot of time on the canals having a liveable deckhouse makes the world seem bigger - especially when raining..............on which note I would suggest at least a well covered wheel shelter if not a wheelhouse.............

Also whilst carrying a mast onboard is doable, can be a PITA onboard - and if leaving somewhere means you have to return same route.
Click to expand...

Agree both.... a wheelhouse is a highly desirable but it needs to be under 2.4 metres air draught (that's 7 ft 10 in old money) and carrying masts is easier if it's a ketch but still a PITA
 
The boat in my avatar is a Moody Cavalier, 36ft with deck saloon and aft cockpit, same hull as the Halberdier. We carried the mast on deck from Le Havre to the med in 1974 and she was very comfortable for that, however the interior space was much smaller than modern designs, so would probably seem too cramped after a Cat.

Have a look with Google for Yankee, which Irving Johnson and his wife Electa had designed for inland waterway and med cruising. There was an American production boat called the Tartan Tock based on her design which I would think would be ideal.

http://www.tartanownersweb.org/models/tock/general/tockspecs.pdf
 
depths

A minor note but if you are thinking of exploring the Brittany canal system (including the Loire/Mayenne/Erdre rivers) It might be worth aiming for a draft of not more than 1.00 Metre as they are a lot shallower than the other french canal systems.
 
What is a motor-saler? By definition it is a boat that sails but is also suitable for extended motoring. Almost all modern boats do that.

Traditionally a motor sailer has an enclosed wheelhouse, is under-canvassed and sails poorly but it doesn't have to be so. You don't have to sacrifice performance these days.

I consider my boat a motor sailer though the designer never thought of it that way. The folding props give plenty of drive but don't cause drag when sailing so you don't have to pull a big 3-blade fixed through the water. A cockpit enclosure made of canvas is much nicer in hot weather than a fixed wheelhouse - just roll up the sides.
 
I always thought that a Prout was the ideal motor sailer but understand the beam issue. If you are travelling with your spars then you have to add the height of stowed spars on to the wheelhouse/shelter as well which I think you will also find limiting. The spars can be transported by barge seperately if you dont want to do a return route to the same port (but it depends where you are going to end up) I think you would struggle with most motorsailers with a wheel house so I would have thought a deck saloon with internal helm would be better and I think the Southerly will tick these boxes. ther are loads of 'motor sailers from Roggers, Banjers, Claymore, Halberdier, Neptunians, Nabs etc. I think the Southerly would be a really good compromise though.
 
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