Mooring in astern

[Piddy]

Whilst moving the boat to the summer mooring this morning, I was discussing a mooring incident from a couple of seasons ago with a friend that kindly offered to help.

What would you do?

On a nice early season day I was alongside the mid-channel pontoon at the Folly with no one outside us and three boats rafted up astern with a spring ebb tide flowing. A boat with a crew being trained is circling the river whilst they get fenders and lines ready.

Eventually the skipper calls across that she would like to come alongside – no problem, other than the boat is shaping up to approach in astern – against the tide with little wind but backwards all the same. SWMBO and the kids were ashore so I was aboard on my own.

I responded very politely that she was welcome to come alongside but that I would prefer them to be pointing into the tide like all the other boats around as I felt they would have more control.

The skipper was quite put out and asked again but I stuck to my request. At which point she spun round again to go and ask the harbour launch whether she could. He replied that he thought she ought to do the manoeuvre like all the others and left her to it.

When they made the final approach now forwards into the tide, she approached a bit too slow or close and caught the anchor of the outside boat astern as she swung in but managed to keep control and not get pushed broadside to the current. The damage was quite light with just a couple of scratches to the gel coat.

At the time I was quite pleased I had made them change as I could visualise them ploughing into my boat but as I was explaining it to my friend, it occurred to me I might have caused the very incident I was hoping to avoid - just on someone else boat. He asked whether it is reasonable to moor up in astern – which in some marinas it may be but I wouldn’t want to moor in that way in a fast flowing river. If forced to, I would be confident of succeeding but it just didn’t make sense to me at that time.

If the training boat wanted to practise mooring in astern, why not find an empty pontoon?


What do the experts think?

Cheers

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

In some Dutch harbours there are even signs up to enforce everyone to moor in the same direction....

I'd have done just the same.... not enough control astern under those conditions to come alongside safely....

A ferry glide might have been more appropriate though......

 

[MarkG]

I'm afraid I would assess each mooring as it came as my boat handles really well astern and sometimes better than ahead.
If I'm going to ferry glide in then to go astern at tickover can counteract a tidal flow whereas if I was going ahead it may be going a tad too fast.
If there's a strong cross wind then I tend use ahead as there's less likelihood of drifting off course.

 

[Talbot]

It really depends entirely on the characteristics of the vessel. My boat behaves perfectly going astern - and in some conditions, it is the best method as there is actually more control than going ahead slowly.

 

[Iota]

I think what you did was spot on and yes if they want to practice then they should find an empty pontoon. The fact it was as training boat and they still got it wrong says a lot about the skipper...

I have a view that says by keeping it simple it minimises the risks.

You see a lot of errors on the Yealm with people going downtide onto the two visitors pontoons.

Iota

 

[KenMcCulloch]

Interesting. When I saw the title I expected to see a discussion of the pros and cons of picking up a buoy in astern. In a boat that blows off easily and a strongish wind I would indeed choose to pick up a buoy in astern by creeping upwind backwards. As to parking stern to tide alongside a pier or pontoon I'm not sure why anyone would choose to do that. However I would not in the circumstances described offer any advice. If the boat has asked for my agreement to berth alongside I would leave it entirely to them to choose how they do that.

If they then do damage that's entirely their responsibility whereas if I have offered advice and that's followed I would believe myself complicit in those events. My main concern however would be to allow the skipper of the other boat the courtesy of knowing what she / he is doing, liability for whatever events transpired would be a secondary consideration.

 

[pmyatt]

Going ahead into the tide means that the rudder is washed by both the propwash and the tide whereas, going astern means that the rudder is used to steer against tide effect only and the prop merely provides a counterbalance to the force of the tide - a stationary ferryglide thus being much easier. Provided the boat steers well astern, going astern into the tide should produce much finer control than going bow into the tide. Most modern boats with a spade rudder steer very well astern, especially when going into wind - going into tide is a similar effect.

 

[Skyva_2]

Agreed that a ferry glide is the answer, but that could be done in astern if the boat handles OK.

An empty pontoon would have been better!

One of the things I pass on is:

'The right manoeuvre, poorly executed, is still better than the wrong manoeuvre, perfectly executed'.

 

[bedouin]

Surely it depends on the boat? I would always think very carefully before telling another skipper how to perform any manoeuvre!

On my boat I would normally only think of approaching any mooring astern if there was a strong wind, on the grounds that the stern always seeks the wind whereas the bow would tend to blow off.

In some circumstances you could also see the benefit in performing the critical last minute slowing/stopping and manoeuvring in ahead rather than astern

 

[Iota]

The tide at the Folly can be quick and is angled through the pontoons. It can vary a little depending on the pontoon. I think someone solo on a boat has every right to request a boat to do what they are comfortable with.

Iota

 

[capnsensible]

Sorry chaps, but it is entirely and unambiguously the yacht skippers decision only as to how he manouvers his vessel. His decision, his responsibility.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

true except there is a certain amount of etiquette required when mooring alongside another boat, which includes taking the views of its owner into account.

 

[photodog]

Ferry gliding whilst moving astern is for me my numero uno choice...for a few simple reasons...

The boat will tend to stay in line with the stream.... moving forward a small rudder movement can lead to a rapid movement of the bow as the tide works to exagerate movement around the pivot point... fine if you want to turn quickly but bad if you want the boat to move sideways....

Paradoxically you also have better control if you decide to move the boat downstream... as you will gain control of the bow more quickly moving forward, than trying to move backwards from a standing start...

We shouldnt be afraid of reverse in a modern spade rudder yacht.. in strong wind or tide off a pontoon reversing in is often the best thing...

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[graham]

Have to say that I am a fan of approaching a mooring or pontoon stern to tide or wind.The boat will hang downtide/wind of the prop nicely and you can ferry glide across as slow as you like.Go too slow bow to the tide and the bow will take a dive one way or the other.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Piddy,

My feeling is that the owner of another boat (ie you) has no rights over telling another boat how to manoevre.

If they had been coming in downwind and down tide, it might be prudent to point out in some sort of polite way which way the current was flowing... and ask him the name of his insurers? (only joking about the last point)

However there are lots of reasons why you might want to reverse into the current as others have said, and if that's what he wanted to do, its his boat and he can do what he likes - even if he is coming alongside yours.

We do have lots of big fenders for just this sort of situation. They are usually used for the French boats who don't seem to get the fenders out of the locker until they are getting lines across to your boat as they come alongside.

 

[sailorman]

that is for Fire Risk reasons to stop confusion

 

[charles_reed]

IMHO

you were responsible for a gross breach of etiquette in the first place, and probably wrong into the bargain.

Still there are always self-important experts around in all walks of life!!!

 

[maxi77]

Re: IMHO

Certainly in my opinion it is up to the skipper how he manoeuvres his boat, he not any one else is responsible for it's safety. If your comment had been whether or not he came alongside you head to toe or not there may have been some understanding of your concern though in a head to toe position he would have had his cockpit alongside your bow, better for your privacy and comfort.

 

[ex-Gladys]

[ QUOTE ]
Have to say that I am a fan of approaching a mooring or pontoon stern to tide or wind.The boat will hang downtide/wind of the prop nicely and you can ferry glide across as slow as you like.Go too slow bow to the tide and the bow will take a dive one way or the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

I use this technique to pick up my swingin mooring single handed. Very straightforward for the reasons stated. Also most gearboxes are lower ratio in astern, so you get a better speed of approach.

 

[Piddy]

Re: IMHO

Charles,

With all due respect, the number of badly handled charter and training boats in the Solent makes me very cautious when I see an unconventional manoeuvre by them.

I'm not prepared to accept scrapes and bumps in my boat just because they want to "try it this way" - and at places like the Folly it happens every weekend as it is a favourite place for the charter fleets.

If I'm particularly unhappy I would offer to move so they can practise on the pontoon while I'm out of the way. Whether it's just the Solent area, which is very crowded (but is where I've sailed since I was a kid) but there are a lot of inexperienced sailors, often on a weekend charter without a clue on what to do with basic boat handling.

Etiquette goes out of the window at that stage as it's basic survival. With this particular crew it appeared that only the skipper had any idea of what was going on so having a number of crew standing by made no difference. She might just as well have been single handed.
The head to tide approach was the conventional way of doing it that day as demonstrated by the other 100's of boats that moored there.

Cheers

Piddy