Mooring Buoys - How to Find / Best Practice - Can I just use any?

[ylop]

Once again you have lost sight of the question. It is November! Very few people are cruising and there are hundreds of empty moorings.

No you've missed this bit of the original question:

Im not fussed about moving etc but I don't want to annoy people if im using their mooring.

If there are hundreds of empty moorings shouldn't be too hard to find someone willing to give explicit permission should it.

 

[Laysula]

We sailed the straits for years and picked up any mooring that was free. If there was a boat name on it we would give a call on the VHS, don't ever remember getting a reply,
As I remember there was one yellow visitors buoy opposite the Gazelle, but I can't ever remember it being vacant, always seemed to have the same boat on it.

 

[Aja]

Turning up somewhere unfamiliar late at night and using a vacant buoy also seems a reasonable course of action. If the buoy has a phone number and a note saying 'please call for permission to use', I will happily oblige, all be it 3 AM! Equally, if the buoy has a note on it saying 'do not use' I will respect that too.

If it just stated 'PRIVATE' what would be your intention then?

 

[NormanS]

You can save all this grief by anchoring. Then you know precisely what's holding you.

 

[MontyMariner]

If it just stated 'PRIVATE' what would be your intention then?

Look for another.

 

[MontyMariner]

You can save all this grief by anchoring. Then you know precisely what's holding you.

I agree, but the area where I sometimes borrow a buoy (Poole harbour) is littered with moorings, so anchoring out of the fairway is not as easy as it could be, using a trip line is often prudent, but a deal of effort after a 14 hr passage and late at night.

 

[TSB240]

Spoilt for choice on the Menai at the moment.
You need to keep a good watch out and make sure you don't hook a cold water swimmer.

 

[Mister E]

The maniac straits looks lovely at the Caernarfon end today.
The sunken fishing boat was clearly visible in the bay.

 

[Major Tom]

Yachting monthly this month ... "there are no laws stopping others using your mooring and, what's more, if someone else picks up your mooring and it fails then you are liable"

While I wouldn't have much sympathy for a claimant of the latter, I would be disappointed if a mooring owner got aggro about someone using their mooring for a short while. I prefer to anchor, so mooring owners should be mindful that they are occupying what is often a perfect anchoring spot, often the only perfect spot, and anchoring is effectively precluded anywhere near them for fear of fouling a possible ground chain. And they do seem to proliferate - we once fouled and totally tangled with the substantial fisherman's anchor and ground chain a very long way distant from the (ever more) expansive Lulworth cove small boat Moorings. Now when I anchor there, I feel very crowded away from them, and instead have to go close to the beach and rocks, and exposed to the worse swell, just to be sure of not fouling the moorings ground chains again.

 

[Sea Change]

Yachting monthly this month ... "there are no laws stopping others using your mooring and, what's more, if someone else picks up your mooring and it fails then you are liable"

That is quite surprising, especially the second statement.
Are we supposed to mark our moorings with a maximum vessel size/weight? Otherwise, how do we know what kind of vessel is going to pick it up?

 

[Stemar]

Ultimately, that statement could mean a ferro Endurance or a big mobo with huge windage picking up a mooring sized for a Sunfast 20 and suing because it blew away in a storm. It's ridiculous. "“If the law supposes that,” said Mr. Bumble, squeezing his hat emphatically in both hands, “the law is a ass – a idiot”, to quote Mr DIckens.

Worse, the mooring could be disused, and not fit to hang on to a Mirror dinghy. I'm no lawyer, but ITSM that an element of due diligence to ensure the mooring is suitable for my boat is required when I pick up your mooring. Sure, if I come along and cast you loose because you're on my mooring and I want to put my boat there, sue me all you like, but that's a bit different.

 

[ylop]

Yachting monthly this month ... "there are no laws stopping others using your mooring and, what's more, if someone else picks up your mooring and it fails then you are liable"

I’d love to see the context for that “advice”. At face value the first part suggests it must be ok to pick up a visitor mooring and not pay for it too? Presumably at least some moorings fall under harbour bylaws too. But I can imagine that (except local bylaws) there is no specific legislation making use of someone else’s mooring a crime.

The second bit seems VERY unlikely unless perhaps (and even then I’m sceptical) the mooring didn’t meet the crown estates requirements for being properly maintained. It does seem to add weight to the argument why mooring owners would wish to discourage others from using the mooring.

 

[Sea Change]

You could argue that the person using the mooring would be legally an 'occupier' and therefore assume liability for any failings. That's certainly what I would be claiming if somebody else used my mooring and then came to grief.

 

[doug748]

Yachting monthly this month ... "there are no laws stopping others using your mooring and, what's more, if someone else picks up your mooring and it fails then you are liable"

Do we know the context of the remark? Does not have the ring of a legal professional backed by case law and reads like the type of throwaway opinion you often see in Letters to the Editor ... or, dare I mention it, on this forum

.

 

[Graham376]

Do we know the context of the remark? Does not have the ring of a legal professional backed by case law and reads like the type of throwaway opinion you often see in Letters to the Editor ... or, dare I mention it, on this forum

.

I would suggest a mooring owner could be liable if they had rented it to someone for payment but, if someone just moored without permission and knowledge of it's condition, can't see how the owner could be liable.

 

[dunedin]

Yachting monthly this month ... "there are no laws stopping others using your mooring and, what's more, if someone else picks up your mooring and it fails then you are liable"

While I wouldn't have much sympathy for a claimant of the latter, I would be disappointed if a mooring owner got aggro about someone using their mooring for a short while. I prefer to anchor, so mooring owners should be mindful that they are occupying what is often a perfect anchoring spot, often the only perfect spot, and anchoring is effectively precluded anywhere near them for fear of fouling a possible ground chain. And they do seem to proliferate - we once fouled and totally tangled with the substantial fisherman's anchor and ground chain a very long way distant from the (ever more) expansive Lulworth cove small boat Moorings. Now when I anchor there, I feel very crowded away from them, and instead have to go close to the beach and rocks, and exposed to the worse swell, just to be sure of not fouling the moorings ground chains again.

As others have said, what if any is the legal basis for these statements apparently in YM?

It has been seen many times that the law can be rather unhelpful in trying to get a squatter off a private mooring, if the owner is uncontactable or simply chooses not to move. But equally, that does not give a right to use others property - just it may not help prevent misuse.

An in terms of liability, the YM statement may not be entirely true, but does raise some serious questions in these more litigatious days. It is hardly likely that a mooring owner would be liable if their mooring is clearly marked “private, no mooring” - particularly if a large boat chose to moor on something where it had no idea of the sizing (as noted, many are for RIBs etc in summer only).

However, if a mooring owner adds something like “10 ton max” that could be seen to be giving an implied right to use the mooring, and worse an implied warranty that it is safe for any boat up to 10 tons, perhaps in any conditions. Equally if somebody asks to use your mooring and you agree, this again could be an implied warranty of the mooring condition.
Boats do occasionally brisk moorings, especially in summer storms. If a lawyer chose to moor his new £1m HR on your mooring and it broke free, he could come chasing the owner - who, unlike a boatyard or similar, is unlikely to any insurance cover for another boat coming off their mooring.

I don’t own a private mooring. But reflecting on this I would be forced to conclude that I should only put “private, no mooring” on the buoy. I should not put a safe weight limit, and should never agree to anybody else using unless investigated insurance liability.

 

[Never Grumble]

Do we know the context of the remark? Does not have the ring of a legal professional backed by case law and reads like the type of throwaway opinion you often see in Letters to the Editor ... or, dare I mention it, on this forum

Just reading the article its by Dick Durham he might know a bit about sailing but does he know the legalities behind this statement?
Its actually in an article about "how to lay your own mooring" now most don't do this but rent one off someone else.

 

[dunedin]

Just reading the article its by Dick Durham he might know a bit about sailing but does he know the legalities behind this statement?
Its actually in an article about "how to lay your own mooring" now most don't do this but rent one off someone else.

Ah, DD has a bit of form for his opinions. Not always consistent with others.

 

[Seastoke]

Ah, DD has a bit of form for his opinions. Not always consistent with others.

Is he from Durham .

 

[Mark-1]

I’d love to see the context for that “advice”. At face value the first part suggests it must be ok to pick up a visitor mooring and not pay for it too? Presumably at least some moorings fall under harbour bylaws too. But I can imagine that (except local bylaws) there is no specific legislation making use of someone else’s mooring a crime.

The second bit seems VERY unlikely unless perhaps (and even then I’m sceptical) the mooring didn’t meet the crown estates requirements for being properly maintained. It does seem to add weight to the argument why mooring owners would wish to discourage others from using the mooring.

Agree. IANAL but both statements seem implausible to me without some pretty substantial caveats.