Mooring Buoys - How to Find / Best Practice - Can I just use any?

[Aja]

Perhaps if you read the posts instead of attacking other posters you might learn something. The OP posted a couple of days ago, in November. Very few boats will still be occupying moorings on the Menai Strait by now as these are quite unsuitable in winter. As I read his post he has no intention of finding a mooring for anything other than an overnight stop.
In the far off days when I began cruising it was quite understood that unoccupied moorings could be picked up, always leaving someone aboard to move if necessary, on the understanding that my own mooring might well be occupied while I was not using it. It seems that like so many courtesies of the past, this is no longer the case, at least by some owners.

It would seem that courtesies are like everything else in this 'instant' and 'now' society. Open to abuse, which is a shame.

 

[winch2]

So some people actually tie up to somebody elses bouy and then buzz off leaving it unmanned for the day? Not in 40 years have I left the boat if just picking up a bouy for a few hrs for lunch/tea etc.. Very bad form.

 

[ylop]

Perhaps if you read the posts instead of attacking other posters you might learn something.

I did read the post.

. The OP posted a couple of days ago, in November. Very few boats will still be occupying moorings on the Menai Strait by now as these are quite unsuitable in winter.

But you are still guessing which are “free” and which might be in occasional use by its “rightful” occupier, which are a sensible size etc - and at this time of year which have been dropped to the seabed and are just a float on a rope!

As I read his post he has no intention of finding a mooring for anything other than an overnight stop.

Ok so he settles down for the night - it’s dark, the owner appears. The OP is relatively inexperienced. Far from ideal to be leaving a mooring and picking up another / anchoring in the dark in strong tidal conditions with little experience. Probably more logical to go somewhere he can be certain he won’t be disturbed.

In the far off days when I began cruising it was quite understood that unoccupied moorings could be picked up, always leaving someone aboard to move if necessary, on the understanding that my own mooring might well be occupied while I was not using it.

Perhaps those were days when leisure boats were all small compared to moorings? I don’t know how someone can know what my mooring is rated for? Even I have never actually seen the ground tackle and have to take the contractor’s word for it.

It seems that like so many courtesies of the past, this is no longer the case, at least by some owners.

Personally I think the courtesy is to ask before you borrow someone else’s equipment. I don’t know when or why this practice emerged - presumably in the days when communication was much harder. But also in times when the crown estate didn’t charge for mooring license? And insurers didn’t insist on paying contractors to do the work?

 

[Seastoke]

Is anybody worried about Tom.

 

[RogerJolly]

What do insurers say about it?

Would they call up some exclusion or other if your boat broke free from a borrowed mooring and wrecked? (I'll check my
own policy in a minute).

 

[NormanS]

What do insurers say about it?

Would they call up some exclusion or other if your boat broke free from a borrowed mooring and wrecked? (I'll check my
own policy in a minute).

I would be quite surprised if an insurance company would be very accommodating in the situation where someone picked up a random mooring without 'due diligence', and then came to grief when it broke.

 

[vyv_cox]

Ok so he settles down for the night - it’s dark, the owner appears. The OP is relatively inexperienced. Far from ideal to be leaving a mooring and picking up another / anchoring in the dark in strong tidal conditions with little experience. Probably more logical to go somewhere he can be certain he won’t be disturbed.

Perhaps those were days when leisure boats were all small compared to moorings? I don’t know how someone can know what my mooring is rated for? Even I have never actually seen the ground tackle and have to take the contractor’s word for it.

This has happened to me on a couple of occasions. Having let the other owner know that he was on my mooring I left him on it and picked up an adjacent empty mooring myself. Again, courtesy that apparently no longer exists.

Once again, you demonstrate that you do not know the Menai Strait. Moorings here are massive with two 50 kg anchors, up and down tide, large ground chain (mine was 1 inch) and risers (3/4 inch). We are not talking about a little concrete block and bits of string.

 

[MontyMariner]

@ylop, I feel slightly depressed by your attitude. I hope that if you ever need a tow or any other assistance there is someone a little more magnanimous in the vicinity.

 

[dunedin]

This has happened to me on a couple of occasions. Having let the other owner know that he was on my mooring I left him on it and picked up an adjacent empty mooring myself. Again, courtesy that apparently no longer exists.

Once again, you demonstrate that you do not know the Menai Strait. Moorings here are massive with two 50 kg anchors, up and down tide, large ground chain (mine was 1 inch) and risers (3/4 inch). We are not talking about a little concrete block and bits of string.

Are there no RIB or small boat moorings in the Menai Straits? It’s not an area I know.

But as noted earlier, also depends on the size of boat. Previously most boats on moorings were around the mid 20s to mid 30s foot long. Then a few more up to 40 foot or so.
But nowadays it is increasingly common for people to buy first boats that are mid 40s to mid 50s feet long. They might have problems on most regular mooring trots - but again I have often seen such sized boats attempting to use moorings spaced / specced for smaller boats.

 

[ylop]

This has happened to me on a couple of occasions. Having let the other owner know that he was on my mooring I left him on it and picked up an adjacent empty mooring myself. Again, courtesy that apparently no longer exists.

So if I return back to my mooring there are two other moorings nearby. One has a MoBo on it that I’ve never seen move - the owner goes out to fish from it from time to time. But it’s almost certainly not free. The other I’ve never seen any vessel use - and I’ve never seen anyone service it, it might be maintained but there’s no way I’m taking a chance on it. If I did how would my boat get back to its proper mooring when the unauthorised user leaves - and I’m back home. I could go 1/2 NM away and use Visitor moorings - for a fee - and there are some other moorings there which are generally busy, although not at this time of year (but many of them will have dropped their chain). I could also head about 1/2 a mile in a different direction where there is another group of moorings but then I have a heck of a trip back to my car. Now nobody occupying my mooring could know that it’s particularly inconvenient for me compared to say the empty mooring next to mine that may never have been serviced. But that is my point - without asking it’s frankly rude to make an assumption that it is ok. Its like coming home from holiday to find a stranger parked in your driveway.

Once again, you demonstrate that you do not know the Menai Strait. Moorings here are massive with two 50 kg anchors, up and down tide, large ground chain (mine was 1 inch) and risers (3/4 inch). We are not talking about a little concrete block and bits of string.

I’ve only sailed in the Menai once, and I wasn’t diving to inspect the moorings. But I think your point supports my argument rather than contradicts it - a random visitor has no idea what’s under the bouy. Of course if there is a mooring association, sailing club or similar who have a policy of just help yourself that is fine - but if these are private moorings I’ll stick to my position that this idea that there is some entitlement to help yourself is at best a local custom. It seems that where it is followed many do not follow the “so long as you stay aboard and can immediately vacate” guidance. Perhaps it explains why so many visitor moorings report many users not paying?

I don’t know if the customs are different in Scotland - but asking permission first was always what I was taught (and that goes back to last century), and seemed like a totally reasonable course of action.

 

[ylop]

@ylop, I feel slightly depressed by your attitude. I hope that if you ever need a tow or any other assistance there is someone a little more magnanimous in the vicinity.

I have no issue with giving anyone a tow, or other assistance and it’s totally different if someone has a mechanical issue and picks up a bouy to sort it out versus planning a trip and working out where they can park up for the night. Where do you draw the line? Is it ok to pull up to a sailing club pontoon when not a member (without asking on knowing if visitors are encouraged to do so)? Or to tie up alongside a fish farm? What about at a boat yard that has visitor mooring and private moorings - can you use the private ones? What if the visitor ones are full? Can I just tie up to the large mooring that the local fishing boat uses - even though none of the yacht moorings are large enough for her?

It is very rare that there is no other option. If someone I knew, perhaps even someone on here, asked to use my mooring when I was going to be away then that would be fine as I’d have agreed when it was going to be vacated.

 

[MontyMariner]

asking permission first was always what I was taught (and that goes back to last century), and seemed like a totally reasonable course of action.

Turning up somewhere unfamiliar late at night and using a vacant buoy also seems a reasonable course of action. If the buoy has a phone number and a note saying 'please call for permission to use', I will happily oblige, all be it 3 AM! Equally, if the buoy has a note on it saying 'do not use' I will respect that too.

 

[vyv_cox]

So if I return back to my mooring there are two other moorings nearby. One has a MoBo on it that I’ve never seen move - the owner goes out to fish from it from time to time. But it’s almost certainly not free. The other I’ve never seen any vessel use - and I’ve never seen anyone service it, it might be maintained but there’s no way I’m taking a chance on it. If I did how would my boat get back to its proper mooring when the unauthorised user leaves - and I’m back home. I could go 1/2 NM away and use Visitor moorings - for a fee - and there are some other moorings there which are generally busy, although not at this time of year (but many of them will have dropped their chain). I could also head about 1/2 a mile in a different direction where there is another group of moorings but then I have a heck of a trip back to my car. Now nobody occupying my mooring could know that it’s particularly inconvenient for me compared to say the empty mooring next to mine that may never have been serviced. But that is my point - without asking it’s frankly rude to make an assumption that it is ok. Its like coming home from holiday to find a stranger parked in your driveway.

I’ve only sailed in the Menai once, and I wasn’t diving to inspect the moorings. But I think your point supports my argument rather than contradicts it - a random visitor has no idea what’s under the bouy. Of course if there is a mooring association, sailing club or similar who have a policy of just help yourself that is fine - but if these are private moorings I’ll stick to my position that this idea that there is some entitlement to help yourself is at best a local custom. It seems that where it is followed many do not follow the “so long as you stay aboard and can immediately vacate” guidance. Perhaps it explains why so many visitor moorings report many users not paying?

I don’t know if the customs are different in Scotland - but asking permission first was always what I was taught (and that goes back to last century), and seemed like a totally reasonable course of action.

Once again you have lost sight of the question. It is November! Very few people are cruising and there are hundreds of empty moorings.

 

[Mister E]

A question was asked about a specific place and time of year, not the whole country.

However the original question also asked about best practice.

Thus two separate discussions are getting wound into each other.

People need to be clear which part of this they are referring to

The moorings in the Menia Straights are all very large to allow for the very high tidal flow.
As someone wrote "Faster than a galloping horse".

 

[Stemar]

I would be quite surprised if an insurance company would be very accommodating in the situation where someone picked up a random mooring without 'due diligence', and then came to grief when it broke.

I think "due diligence" in such a case would be to lift the mooring enough to see the size and state of the chain. If the top few feet and the swivel are in decent nick, and of a suitable size, the rest is probably OK. Even so, I don't think I'd want to leave my boat unattended.

 

[NormanS]

I think "due diligence" in such a case would be to lift the mooring enough to see the size and state of the chain. If the top few feet and the swivel are in decent nick, and of a suitable size, the rest is probably OK. Even so, I don't think I'd want to leave my boat unattended.

I don't have a crane on my boat. Do you?
As an example, my riser chain is 19mm in a water depth of 16 metres. I would like to see you lift that lot for a quick inspection.

 

[oldbloke]

Not that it's ever been relevant to me, because all the moorings that I am aware of on the south coast have eagle eyed harbour masters attached to them, poised to charge you, but I would bring weather conditions into the calculation. If your mooring will keep you safe in a storm it's not going to come to harm holding me on a quiet afternoon

 

[winch2]

Thus two separate discussions are getting wound into each other.

You could add a third. 'Harbour Authority Mantained' In our huge harbour location I have no compunction in picking up any old mid to deep water bouy as it will come under that heading, which means it will be well maintained.

Having said that its always been the way of the sea, if you want to stop for lunch or a cuppa you just 'pick up a bouy' but have a weather eye out for drift, and, or, the owner coming back. And who's going to stop for lunch in a force 8 upwards anyway? What you never, ever do is stay the night, or jump in the dinghy, clear orf and leave it.

 

[Stemar]

I don't have a crane on my boat. Do you?
As an example, my riser chain is 19mm in a water depth of 16 metres. I would like to see you lift that lot for a quick inspection.

If the chain's that heavy, chances are it's professionally maintained, so I'd be less inclined to worry. Even if it's half the thickness it should be, it's still plenty strong enough. I'd be far more concerned about moorings in shallow water, where maintenance might be dubious.

 

[Sea Change]

If the chain's that heavy, chances are it's professionally maintained, so I'd be less inclined to worry. Even if it's half the thickness it should be, it's still plenty strong enough. I'd be far more concerned about moorings in shallow water, where maintenance might be dubious.

19mm is the standard chain size used on fish farms, many moorings around the West coast will use this size because it's available if you know who you ask. Doesn't tell you anything about when it was last checked.