MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

[longjohnsilver]

This really is an interesting thread and many thanks for sharing with us. I have to say rather you than me, seems a huge amount of work but really admire your spirit and can do attitude. Also great pics, keep them coming.

 

[rafiki_]

I would think 100 odd litre b/w tank OK. Assume 0.5 litre waste, then 1 litre flush? Should give at least 50 odd visits before you go to sea and discharge or pump out.

When we pump-ed out Rafiki at the end of last season, there was surprisingly little in the tank. I assume your shower and basin waste will discharge directly overboard, or to a different grey tank, which you can then discharge at your leisure? For us, this is the one that fills quicker.

Sorry but can't help with the compass alignment, I assume there are some instructions with the kit?

 

[vas]

This really is an interesting thread and many thanks for sharing with us. I have to say rather you than me, seems a huge amount of work but really admire your spirit and can do attitude. Also great pics, keep them coming.

LJS,

As I've pointed earlier in this thread, you people are helping immensly putting in perspective some of my ideas and sharing your experience helping me avoid elementary mistakes.

BTW, I'm (still at 48) easily bored and cannot stay idle (as in working: reading/writting/teaching/researching) without doing something manual for long. Best I've managed was 2-3 years whilst doing my PhD in the UK (and even then I bought an old Lotus to have something to tinker...)
So, yes, it is an awful lot of work, but split in manageable tasks that I enjoy as there's always something acomplished on each boat visit and this definitely keeps me going.

TBH, not too many things that I'll be tackling in MiToS that I've not had a go at different levels before, so not a newbee and not to be afraid of.

Not to mention that there's architectural design work involved and that I really enjoy especially as I design and built it all myself
There's also research work regarding smart/responsive environment design and implementation (that's one of my research academic fields) so seems to be hitting lots of birds with one (largish...) stone.
Last but not least having time together as a family in some wondeful locations around Volos and Pagasitikos bay (all within 20-30nm from home) whilst kids are still small is important.

I would think 100 odd litre b/w tank OK. Assume 0.5 litre waste, then 1 litre flush? Should give at least 50 odd visits before you go to sea and discharge or pump out.

When we pump-ed out Rafiki at the end of last season, there was surprisingly little in the tank. I assume your shower and basin waste will discharge directly overboard, or to a different grey tank, which you can then discharge at your leisure? For us, this is the one that fills quicker.

Sorry but can't help with the compass alignment, I assume there are some instructions with the kit?

rafiki, yes I assumed 40+ visits as well.
Shower and washbasin will be discharged directly overboard, discarded the idea of grey water tank following discussions here a few months ago. Wont even need a pump as shower floor is a good 20cm above waterline.

Have two Plastimo compasses and only one is boxed and has some paperwork on it (but I think there aren't any installation instructions in there). Have to search for models # and check the plastimo site for details.

cheers

V.

 

[BartW]

Hi Vas,

Good to see the progress you make, not breaking down anymore, but building up again.

New gauches panel is really good,
Back side may look spaghetti to some, but looks neath to me.

Don’t worry about the center bed in the bow cabin,
In the cabins I would alway’s give priority on usability instead of esthetics,
And these center bow-, or center mid- cabin beds, it never understood the excitement about it.
I believe in your config you have more full hight space in the bow cabin, which I think is more usefull.

About the small cabin,
what’s the problem with two beds above each other?
Seems more practical seen from here ?
Even the second cabin, I would make provisions, so that a 3th foldable bunk bed is possible.

In my experience, you can’t have enough beds on a boat
or is that only us, inviting too many friends, or our 4 kids bringing all there mates…?
But I believe that’s another good argument for getting the lady on board
Actually on my list for future upgrades for Blue Angel, I have 2 foldable bunk beds above the two bow beds, in the bow Vip cabin. I took pictures last week from an example in another old Canados.
now we have 13 beds, have plans to have 15, and then I'll stop.

Can’t give too much advice about the waste tank above water line, might be a good idea,
But Just a few issues come to mind:
- If you have a ballast of 100 kg, not centrally placed, this could lean the boat to one side at rest (even without guests)…
- Ballast of 100kg, shouldn’t you have that as low as possible for more stable ride ? that’s my experience with fe scuba tanks on the Karnic. I always’s place some in the bilges if I have plenty onboard
- I ‘m just replacing the “Whale Gulper 12V Toilet pump” on my Karnic, so yes they do brake down. I saw one in Italy at a chandler at 460 euro, which I thought was a ripoff, googling around you can get them for less then 300 euro.

 

[vas]

Hi Vas,

Good to see the progress you make, not breaking down anymore, but building up again.

New gauches panel is really good,
Back side may look spaghetti to some, but looks neath to me.

thanks Bart, spaghetti will look impressively tidy when I finish, hope soon

Don’t worry about the center bed in the bow cabin,
In the cabins I would alway’s give priority on usability instead of esthetics,
And these center bow-, or center mid- cabin beds, it never understood the excitement about it.
I believe in your config you have more full hight space in the bow cabin, which I think is more usefull.

true, that's the reason, all standing space in the bow cabin is full height, yes over my legs when laying in bed I only have 80cm or so, but I don't care.

About the small cabin,
what’s the problem with two beds above each other?
Seems more practical seen from here ?
Even the second cabin, I would make provisions, so that a 3th foldable bunk bed is possible.

It's not clear, BUT the flat walking space in that cabin is where the folding bed is. The fixed bed is over the sloping hull so there's no way I can have two bunks on the inner side (towards the corridor so to speak) and ppl moving "outside" as they'd be walking on a slope and there wouldn't be enough head room either due to the external gunwales. So it's a bit of a one way route I'm afraid.

In my experience, you can’t have enough beds on a boat
or is that only us, inviting too many friends, or our 4 kids bringing all there mates…?
But I believe that’s another good argument for getting the lady on board
Actually on my list for future upgrades for Blue Angel, I have 2 foldable bunk beds above the two bow beds, in the bow Vip cabin. I took pictures last week from an example in another old Canados.
now we have 13 beds, have plans to have 15, and then I'll stop.

Agree, you have a family with four kids, if each one brings a friend you've had it you need 10beds!
I have only two kids so I need 6 beds. Since they are still small and parents may also join I need to use the salon corner sofa as an extra double bed and I'm up at sleeping 8. Don't think I can easily get any more on a 43footer tbh.

Can’t give too much advice about the waste tank above water line, might be a good idea,
But Just a few issues come to mind:
- If you have a ballast of 100 kg, not centrally placed, this could lean the boat to one side at rest (even without guests)…
- Ballast of 100kg, shouldn’t you have that as low as possible for more stable ride ? that’s my experience with fe scuba tanks on the Karnic. I always’s place some in the bilges if I have plenty onboard
- I ‘m just replacing the “Whale Gulper 12V Toilet pump” on my Karnic, so yes they do brake down. I saw one in Italy at a chandler at 460 euro, which I thought was a ripoff, googling around you can get them for less then 300 euro.

Thought of that, but I'll make sure I empty the black water tank before travelling somewhere. Furthermore boat banks to stbrd already a bit (I assume due to the heavy genny placed on stbrd) so a weight on the other side to counterbalance is okayish. Other option (much more difficult and not so keen on it) would be to remove the stbrd 250lt water tank (one of the two) on the lazarette and shift the genny back there leaving more space in the engine room (don't know what for though and I wouldn't like to put a black water tank back there too long a route for the waste pipes and bound to lead to problems...) But 6-8ppl with a 250lt water tank is pointless I'll need to fit a watermaker (I probably will anyhow) and use it daily.

will come back to some of these issues as I progress.

cheers

V.

 

[Wiggo]

V, if you really are planning on 8 berths, you may want a bigger waste tank, for sure. Our tank is approx 100litres, and four people will fill that in around 3 days on board. Bear in mind that the pump will never completely empty it, and you really, really do not want to fill it to the top! So a 100 litre tank will probably need to be emptied every 60-70 litres.

I have seen black tanks above the waterline on charter yachts, and they are easy to empty by gravity alone, so no worries about pumps breaking, but I would not want 100kg of ballast 0.5m above the waterline on one side of the boat, as Bart says. I would aim for a bigger tank down in the bilge, if you can do it.

 

[rafiki_]

Both my grey and black tanks are on the c/l of Rafiki.

She has a slight list to s/board at the moment, as she has more batteries that side (3:1 ratio). I am installing additional domestic batts on the port side to improve capacity and resolve the list.

 

[vas]

thanks for all comments.

Regarding holding tanks, I'm aware of all that c/l-below-above wl issues.
I'm not at all keen on having/needing yet another pump just to empty it, so above w/l is very appealing.
Further being a wooden hull with all the cross members means that I wont be able to fit a v.large tank below w/l (although I've got to check the vetus and a few other catalogues for that to be sure)
Anyway, I'll investigate further and come back

Spent the eve at home and I finished the second panel (the most difficult imo) that needed lining with black leatherette. It's the slanted one to the right hand side of the helm where I'm fitting the keys/stop buttons and the cetrek a/p controller. It's a bit of a tight fit, cutting was fine, smoothing and curving the corners was ok, lining proves a rather difficult one

Check the following pics and anyone more experienced than me could suggest ways to finish the four smoothed corners where the plate with the keys/stop buttons fit?

It's a pain to stretch and cover the area properly. On the photo above you can see that only the lower left hand corner is almost finished and reasonably stretched. Thinking of using a hairdrier in order to soften the leatherette and help it form properly over the tightish curve. Any other ideas? Else I'll resort to glue but that's also a pain

cheers

V.

 

[jfm]

That's very tricky. I have always struggled when doing it. Only solution I know is to use and extra stretchy vinyl with a loose-knitted backing fabric, so it stretches. But that wont necessarily match your other vinyl

But in this application why bother? Why not glue the vinyl to the ply then just cut it at the hole without wrapping round. The hardware you are mounting has a sin-coverer (aka flange) all round doesn't it, so you don't need to mess around with stretching the vinyl. Or am I missing something?

 

[vas]

That's very tricky. I have always struggled when doing it. Only solution I know is to use and extra stretchy vinyl with a loose-knitted backing fabric, so it stretches. But that wont necessarily match your other vinyl

But in this application why bother? Why not glue the vinyl to the ply then just cut it at the hole without wrapping round. The hardware you are mounting has a sin-coverer (aka flange) all round doesn't it, so you don't need to mess around with stretching the vinyl. Or am I missing something?

hm, extra stretch is no option (haven't found one that matches what I bought...)

There are two holes in this panel, the square one is for the autopilot which indeed has a flange (and I haven't bothered that much, however the other one with the keys/stop buttons sits on a metal plate (lined with vinyl as well) that will bolt on the backside of the panel, so that the keys/buttons are 12mm recessed. Unfortunately this means that the edging has to be neatly covered
Anyway, bought black thermosilicone bars and will try to secure the corners of the edging with it hopefully without making a mess and puncturing the vinyl. We shall see in the evening when I have a go at it.

going to the boat for a couple of hours doing some measurements for the hull shape amidship so that I can model accurately the 3D model I'm working on.

cheers

V.

 

[moonraker 36]

use 1/2"" thick foam between the wood and vinyl ,to pad the vinly out. you will get alot better result.

 

[vas]

use 1/2"" thick foam between the wood and vinyl ,to pad the vinly out. you will get alot better result.

That's an idea, but then I'll have to pad ALL panels around the helm and that's NOT going to be fun...

Seriously, there's a 5mm (or is it 4mm) padding on all "wall" elements that are lined with vinyl. The panels around the helm are unpadded I guess makes them stronger and able to withstand a lot of abuse compared to the padded ones. So, I'll stick to this especially since I'm not redoing ALL panels only the dash (did it) and the controls on the right hand side.

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

hm, 131posts, 160pics and 10k views (and not even halfway the work-more like 20% ) we shall see...

managed to finish the keys/stop autopilot panel.
Looks like upholstering is NOT my job.
The rounded internal corners of the top hole for the key/stop panel were formed with the help of a hairdryer to soften the vinyl and the thermogun to pour a few drops of glue and push in place.
Doing the edging was a major pain, even resorted to googling videos on how to do corners properly to little help.
Eventually decided to rely on my trusty thermogun again and cut at around 45degrees each side and staple on top for good measure

and finished with the two panels fitted:

Another panel with rounded holes to do (in order to fit the two wiper controls) and the rest of the upholstering is easy peasy, just plain panels with the front face visible, most edges hidden

Spend a few hours today and with the help of the daughter (son prefers to play his PSP rather than helping daddy ) managed to untangle and remove the detroit cables from the helm area down to the engine room. Just have 3 (out of 20+) cables to sort out, so rather happy. The only catch was that in order to do so I had to crawl to an area 40cmX60cmX300+cm just under the galley and helm floor. Rather claustophobic I should say!
Good thing is that I found the 12lifejackets hidden under there, found the two disks (one white one black around 35cm dia). I have a feeling that this is a awful spot for storing the lifejackets... I wonder where you lot store them!

Another issue I have is that the hinges for the cabin doors are falling apart. I have 4 doors with 3 hinges on each, currently have 8 hinges in full working order, others are either missing or broken. Anyone got any idea how to get hold of a few of them?

Finally, looks like I'm finalising the cabin design (don't remember now running on something like the 11th+ itteration, but getting there and quite happy!)
Measured around the two side cabins and progressing with my 3D modelling. Things do fit where I want them to, so should be ok.

from this:

to this:

Hopefully some more progress this coming week.

cheers

V.

 

[BartW]

Another issue I have is that the hinges for the cabin doors are falling apart. I have 4 doors with 3 hinges on each, currently have 8 hinges in full working order, others are either missing or broken. Anyone got any idea how to get hold of a few of them?

so you need 4 pcs and a few spares ?
Can asc my guy in Italy to find them,
I have the same on the Canados, so they might be available in the Ostia / Fiumicino region.

 

[Divemaster1]

Hinges

so you need 4 pcs and a few spares ?
Can asc my guy in Italy to find them,
I have the same on the Canados, so they might be available in the Ostia / Fiumicino region.

Seems to be used on Itailian boats then as I have these as well ... one broken. If you find a supplier, I would be very interested ...

 

[rafiki_]

Don't beat yourself up on the panels V, they are looking really good!

 

[vas]

Seems to be used on Itailian boats then as I have these as well ... one broken. If you find a supplier, I would be very interested ...

Hm, time for a group buy then

Yes Bart, if you can get hold of them I could do with a few. I'll clean and oil as best as I can the ones I have but wouldn't mind 5-6pieces. Will have a look around here but I doubt I'll find anything. BTW, very neat and well built devices, I guess mine failed out of disuse, as two doors were always proped open (and I guess that will be three doors now )
I think these doors should be used regularly and lithium greased as well.

Don't beat yourself up on the panels V, they are looking really good!

I don't, simply it was a job that I thought I'd enjoy but being a bit of a perfectionist I felt I couldn't do it very well. Yes they do look v.good, but behind the skin it's not real craftsmanship, although I doubt they'll fall apart tbh, so I should be happy
On the plus side I've got a lot of upholstering to do, so I'll hopefully become better at it over the next few months...

cheers

V.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

V, if you really are planning on 8 berths, you may want a bigger waste tank, for sure. Our tank is approx 100litres, and four people will fill that in around 3 days on board. Bear in mind that the pump will never completely empty it, and you really, really do not want to fill it to the top! So a 100 litre tank will probably need to be emptied every 60-70 litres.

Agree with that. We have a 140 litre blackwater tank and with 6 people on board, that can easily be filled in 3 days. If you're stuck in a marina, you simply cannot empty the tank. It's strictly illegal in most of the Med and apart from that, very antisocial and with the clear water, you're going to leave evidence of your wrongdoing I would say that with 8 people on board with freshwater flushed toilets, a 100litre tank is going to be very marginal

 

[vas]

Agree with that. We have a 140 litre blackwater tank and with 6 people on board, that can easily be filled in 3 days. If you're stuck in a marina, you simply cannot empty the tank. It's strictly illegal in most of the Med and apart from that, very antisocial and with the clear water, you're going to leave evidence of your wrongdoing I would say that with 8 people on board with freshwater flushed toilets, a 100litre tank is going to be very marginal

mike, the three days would be my target, mind wont be spending lots of time in a marina with the 8ppl on board, will mostly be 5-6 on board for longish periods!

Seems that I'll have to go for a custom built one and that means SS, aiming for around 200lt, oddly shaped to fit in the bow under the bed (although I'm not particularly happy about sleeping on top of it tbh but I hope I'll get over it...) Another good thing about bow placement is that it'll be easier to remember when it's full through trim tabs position on plane I guess.

Anyone would know/recommend a reasonable gauge for SS sheet material for this job? Also what type of s.steel would that be? Obviously don't need to be food grade ss (is that 916 don't remember!) but what combo would be suitable?
Got fabricators here that could do the job quite cheap, plasma cutting my design and folding/welding it in shape. Just need the specs to get a quote and obviously don't want to get over the top as this thing will weigh a bit...

cheers

V.

 

[jfm]

Upholstered panels look great V, really nice job

Those hinges are now quite widespread. My last few boats ahve had them, in s/s. Probably on ebay, but timage are one supplier - top left of page

I would never fit a s/steel back tank. I'd spend my whole time thinking about when it would split along a weld. Much better to get one custom rotomoulded in plastic, or even just make it in GRP. Google firms like Lee Sanitation and Tek Tanks for ideas and advice (they're UK firms, sorry)

I like your latest layout/design. I think the offset front bed is a great idea (though, harder to make. EDIT, I mean every morning, as opposed to the construction of the bed!). I thought it was a mistake not to have 2 showers so I'm glad to see you've now included a second shower