BartW
Well-known member
I discovered on BA that all means of cable routing is OK, as long you use good cable
I also have a anchor light cable routed through railings,
MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43
- Thread starter vas
- Start date
I discovered on BA that all means of cable routing is OK, as long you use good cable
I also have a anchor light cable routed through railings,
vas
Well-known member
small update,
removed the quarterpanel (fairly easily after all) and saw the cabling mess under it. After a couple of hours of work, I've figured out where most cables go and I've removed a few more redundant ones. Wonder why ppl don't remove cables once they decide to remove the equipment.
Anyway, Q panel now looks like this
Removed a few things from the f/b arch and started the up-down trips figuring out which cable from the bilge (A/P controller or aircon) goes up to where and following which route. Will need one evening say 8-midnight to label and check all the remaining as I tend to loose time by going there for 2-3hours at a time, involved in a series of things and rechecking the same errors/oddities time after time...
Anyway, things are progressing fine on the wiring front and I should be fitting the gauges on the new panel v.soon (preparing the lining of the lasercut panels with leatherette as I type...)
Finalising the placement of the extra relays/equipment for the BMS system and made a quick mock for the placement. It's not affecting ergonomics, it should be simple to construct and give me ample space for 24U plus few bits and bobs.
cheers
V.
removed the quarterpanel (fairly easily after all) and saw the cabling mess under it. After a couple of hours of work, I've figured out where most cables go and I've removed a few more redundant ones. Wonder why ppl don't remove cables once they decide to remove the equipment.
Anyway, Q panel now looks like this
Removed a few things from the f/b arch and started the up-down trips figuring out which cable from the bilge (A/P controller or aircon) goes up to where and following which route. Will need one evening say 8-midnight to label and check all the remaining as I tend to loose time by going there for 2-3hours at a time, involved in a series of things and rechecking the same errors/oddities time after time...
Anyway, things are progressing fine on the wiring front and I should be fitting the gauges on the new panel v.soon (preparing the lining of the lasercut panels with leatherette as I type...)
Finalising the placement of the extra relays/equipment for the BMS system and made a quick mock for the placement. It's not affecting ergonomics, it should be simple to construct and give me ample space for 24U plus few bits and bobs.
cheers
V.
rafiki_
Well-known member
No easy wins there then V. When do you re-launch?
vas
Well-known member
don't hold your breath for sure
If it was just the internal work, electrics, rearranging the cabins and sorting out a few things in the e/r I'd say in a three months...
However, I need to get everything down to bare plywood, treat it, and do what's needed for painting. I'm cautious here as I don't know what's going to happen.
I may end up scrapping all hull with my el.chisel and apply two or three coats of glassfibre and epoxy/resin/whatever. That's going to take some (still undetermined amount of) time
And I wont do the g/f laying up myself, so got to check costs soon.Above the deck, it's just scrapping, priming,painting. I'll only do the first part, the painting will be done by a pro.
So, I'll leave a date for now, maybe August, maybe pointless and go for next spring, we'll see. Not in a great hurry unless I can make it for August and use it for family vacations. Else, I may take it easy(er) and finish when I finish
cheers
V.
rafiki_
Well-known member
Well, please keep up the posts, it is great to see your endeavours.
vas
Well-known member
you'll have to ban me to stop me posting as it's a decent log of the work taking place for me as well as others (I hate wikis and blogs!) and I get valuable feedback and ideas from you lot, so I feel I should thank the ybw communityand not the other way round
Another morning worth of work today and the pile of redundant cabling is building up.
I'm now at 95% clear and tidy on the lower helm cabling front just need to sort out a couple of glitches in supply to particular switches that is plain wrong or missing, wont be difficult or take long.
Hence the well full of cables to the sbrd of the helm is now much lighter in cabling and easier to access the leaking steering box. Tried to tighten the nuts to no avail so I'm afraid I have to carefully clean all of them and spot the leaking connection for treatment, dirty job on a tight spot stretching my back and the rib, so we'll see when I'll make it.
Still one bl00dy cable live 24V coming from the e/r and not through the fuses/el.panel, god knows why they've done it when the el.panel is next to it!
Tomorrow I'll spend an hour or so in the e/r to remove a couple more cables going up to the helm area and trying to trace that cable back to the batteries.
Also got to sort the old detroit engines cabling still intact taking space but I'm not confident that it's feasible.
Under the lower helm and over the aircon lived another CETREK compass disconnected doing nothing. Removed it and it looks like this:
nice piece of kit, well engineered but will end up in the garage with all the other historic electronics found around MiToS. Not sure if I should call it 504 (as marked underneath or 497 as per the sticker inside...) Either way, not necessary due to the fluxgate compass already connected to the A/P.
cheers
rafiki_
Well-known member
You will be able to open a museum with all the redundant stuff removed from the boat. I guess the compass was ignored because it kept sending the boat round in circles?
BartW
Well-known member
Vas,
here is a link to another report,
http://www.navis.be/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1172
a Belgium guy who's doing a similar job on a 39ft Galard.
but he's one year ahead of you,
his courage and commitment might give some inspiration on a bad day
keep it going the good work, and keep the pics coming
rgds
here is a link to another report,
http://www.navis.be/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1172
a Belgium guy who's doing a similar job on a 39ft Galard.
but he's one year ahead of you,
his courage and commitment might give some inspiration on a bad day
keep it going the good work, and keep the pics coming
rgds
vas
Well-known member
@rafiki
not so sure tbh, I have a feeling that the Cetrek 930618 control box and paraphernalia I'm running now is NOT original 74 vintage, so most likely there was some other cetrek before that were replaced when the previous owner bought her around 85 (I'm the third owner btw). Since it was nicely tucked in a narrow deep self, I guess they just cut the cable and didn't bother removing it.
I wonder if anyone can point to Cetrek history and launch dates (well year would do) for the various equipment. That would help clarify.
@Bart
thanks it's in bl00dy foreign and google translate is great in producing entertaining texts
Serious, he's doing a great job although I slightly disagree with his focus and decisions as I feel he's not "respecting" v.much the original design but it's on their own.
On another note, I feel the "force" is against me yet again!
Managed to pick up another flu yesterday with high fever and all, today feel much better but still knackered. I'm just thinking that within this winter I had a broken rib, two flu infections a gastroenteritis and another flu now! I'm either getting too old or the virii are mutating and getting stronger (hope for the second...). BTW I would rarely "fall" witht the flu more than once a year!
Further, today was an important day as I finaly found and bought leatherete for the various trim panels I'm redoing so that I'll hopefully have dash and surrounding panels ready within the coming week.
V.
not so sure tbh, I have a feeling that the Cetrek 930618 control box and paraphernalia I'm running now is NOT original 74 vintage, so most likely there was some other cetrek before that were replaced when the previous owner bought her around 85 (I'm the third owner btw). Since it was nicely tucked in a narrow deep self, I guess they just cut the cable and didn't bother removing it.
I wonder if anyone can point to Cetrek history and launch dates (well year would do) for the various equipment. That would help clarify.
@Bart
thanks it's in bl00dy foreign
and google translate is great in producing entertaining texts Serious, he's doing a great job although I slightly disagree with his focus and decisions as I feel he's not "respecting" v.much the original design but it's on their own.
On another note, I feel the "force" is against me yet again!
Managed to pick up another flu yesterday with high fever and all, today feel much better but still knackered. I'm just thinking that within this winter I had a broken rib, two flu infections a gastroenteritis and another flu now! I'm either getting too old or the virii are mutating and getting stronger (hope for the second...). BTW I would rarely "fall" witht the flu more than once a year!
Further, today was an important day as I finaly found and bought leatherete for the various trim panels I'm redoing so that I'll hopefully have dash and surrounding panels ready within the coming week.
V.
rafiki_
Well-known member
V,
Funny how it goes with virus's. I find I am generally more resistant with age, as you generate more antibodies. Have had neither a cold nor flu this winter. Picked up a nasty bug on Korean Air last time I came back though, which was quite unpleasant for a few days.
Anyway, back to the project, looking forward to seeing the new dash etc. after Easter.
Funny how it goes with virus's. I find I am generally more resistant with age, as you generate more antibodies. Have had neither a cold nor flu this winter. Picked up a nasty bug on Korean Air last time I came back though, which was quite unpleasant for a few days.
Anyway, back to the project, looking forward to seeing the new dash etc. after Easter.
Divemaster1
Well-known member
Great to see you attacking the EL system.... Not done so myself, but having the original engines in situ, it is not such a big issue.... I do however still have the original generator harness around, which I need to remove at some stage to get rid of some clutter in the cable rack...but that will have to be for another day as I am hoping to get port engine running this week-end...
With respect to the DD harness, I think it could be easier than you think, as some of the gauges were pneumatic etc, and the hoses and special cabling for temp etc., may already have been removed... excluding ignition keys and warning lights of course...
With respect to the DD harness, I think it could be easier than you think, as some of the gauges were pneumatic etc, and the hoses and special cabling for temp etc., may already have been removed... excluding ignition keys and warning lights of course...
vas
Well-known member
good, looking forward to an update on your engine thread then!
just nipped down to the garage where the original gauge panel lives, sorry, cannot see any pneumatic gauges there, all are electrics
14cables off the main panel, another dozen or so off the ignition setup and a few more on the warning lights.Ah, seems like there was indeed an e/r panel with gauges (which unfortunately is missing) as I found two sets of dozen or so cable cut flush on the bulkhead behind and over the fuel tanks, join the other cables in the 60X40mm chanels and later on reappear in the helm area. That makes it exceptionally difficult to trace and remove as they seem to be routed together with the cabling from the e/r lights, bilge pumps etc.
Will check further this w/e and decide where I draw the line on cable removal, not much point spending a week to remove 20cable strands, is there?
Need to also understand how the shore power is routed and works within this system and remove some redundant cabling there as well.
cheers
V.
vas
Well-known member
Right,
some progress at last, rib's stopped hurting, so looks like it's over (fingers crossed!)
OK, got two fronts working simultaneously, helm dash work and cabin rearrangement.
On the first one, I've got the lasercut steel plates, lined them with vinyl (after sealing the cut sections on this 2.5mm galvanised sheet with some sort of sealer) and fitted/transfered the gauges from the old plates. So a proper "organ transplant". Note that as part of the new design, I moved the key/stop combo to another area (tbh, wouldn't fit all together in the available space) so had to extend 7 cables and fit connectors so that I can easily remove some panels if needed.
the main dash panel treated
the wipers' panel under construction
and completed...
cutting with a stanley knife the holes:
transplant started
almost complete!
final result. The indicator lights are v.simple, not extremely happy about them but do fit the aesthetics of the VDOs nicely and are rather discreete. Plan is to have the two green ones for nav lights, the two reds under them for bilge alarm and BMS alarm state. The single ones around the gauges are for the coolant level/water on fuel warning light as per the VDO gauge thread here. Note two gauges are missing, they are the still to be ordered 2bar turbo gauges, same matching series. The ordering process via Germany is a joke, running over two months now, with email exchanges with a lag of two weeks min each...
Tomorrow is judgment day, as I'll fit the gauges back again and fire up the engines... Hope that not only they will work, but shut down as well
Anyway, looks like I'm slowly finishing with the lower helm redesign, it's a matter of upholstering a few new panels and reupholstering a few more existing ones, as well as fitting a VIMAR IDEA set of 1USB, 2 6A 220V via inverter and 1 schuko (shore power/genny) in there as well.
Next task in line was removing the partition wall between the two ex-heads on stbrd side. I remind you that this is planned to be a third cabin with the two heads relocated to port side between the two cabins there. The actual removal of the wall took around 6h in total, and a few extra slices as it was at some point released but thoroughly stuck and wouldn't move/fit through the existing space... Anyway, removed and now lives happily in the main cabin waiting for reusing it as cabin/head separator wall.
Now, regarding this task, there's a few repairs needed in areas that liquid from the toilet was seepingeek: ) to the plywood. Futher, I was planning to arrange the two beds in an L shape as per Divemaster1 craft, but that means shifting the door to the room 40cm to the bow, cutting/shifting things about and creating a 175cm MAX!!! bed. So currently toying with the idea of a bunk thing one on top of the other in a slanted manner so that both have reasonable access to the ground and hopefully headroom as well. Wont show any plans as I need to measure accurately and have a decent section before it makes sense to me. Thing is that upper bunk seems to be smack in the centre of the windows making things rather difficult....
in the process:
Space currently looks like this:
and from the helm area through the ceiling
Plan for tomorrow and day after is to slowly throw away ****, have a second go at the e/r removing redundant cabling, measure accurately the new third cabin and slowly start dismantling the kids cabin as I need to assess water damage there as well (and eventually replace linings)
Currently working at drawing in ACAD the upper helm space and figuring out how my sketch may be implemented for real. Looks OKish atm. More tomorrow.
cheers
V.
some progress at last, rib's stopped hurting, so looks like it's over (fingers crossed!)
OK, got two fronts working simultaneously, helm dash work and cabin rearrangement.
On the first one, I've got the lasercut steel plates, lined them with vinyl (after sealing the cut sections on this 2.5mm galvanised sheet with some sort of sealer) and fitted/transfered the gauges from the old plates. So a proper "organ transplant". Note that as part of the new design, I moved the key/stop combo to another area (tbh, wouldn't fit all together in the available space) so had to extend 7 cables and fit connectors so that I can easily remove some panels if needed.
the main dash panel treated
the wipers' panel under construction
and completed...
cutting with a stanley knife the holes:
transplant started
almost complete!
final result. The indicator lights are v.simple, not extremely happy about them but do fit the aesthetics of the VDOs nicely and are rather discreete. Plan is to have the two green ones for nav lights, the two reds under them for bilge alarm and BMS alarm state. The single ones around the gauges are for the coolant level/water on fuel warning light as per the VDO gauge thread here. Note two gauges are missing, they are the still to be ordered 2bar turbo gauges, same matching series. The ordering process via Germany is a joke, running over two months now, with email exchanges with a lag of two weeks min each...
Tomorrow is judgment day, as I'll fit the gauges back again and fire up the engines... Hope that not only they will work, but shut down as well
Anyway, looks like I'm slowly finishing with the lower helm redesign, it's a matter of upholstering a few new panels and reupholstering a few more existing ones, as well as fitting a VIMAR IDEA set of 1USB, 2 6A 220V via inverter and 1 schuko (shore power/genny) in there as well.
Next task in line was removing the partition wall between the two ex-heads on stbrd side. I remind you that this is planned to be a third cabin with the two heads relocated to port side between the two cabins there. The actual removal of the wall took around 6h in total, and a few extra slices as it was at some point released but thoroughly stuck and wouldn't move/fit through the existing space... Anyway, removed and now lives happily in the main cabin waiting for reusing it as cabin/head separator wall.
Now, regarding this task, there's a few repairs needed in areas that liquid from the toilet was seeping
eek: ) to the plywood. Futher, I was planning to arrange the two beds in an L shape as per Divemaster1 craft, but that means shifting the door to the room 40cm to the bow, cutting/shifting things about and creating a 175cm MAX!!! bed. So currently toying with the idea of a bunk thing one on top of the other in a slanted manner so that both have reasonable access to the ground and hopefully headroom as well. Wont show any plans as I need to measure accurately and have a decent section before it makes sense to me. Thing is that upper bunk seems to be smack in the centre of the windows making things rather difficult....in the process:
Space currently looks like this:
and from the helm area through the ceiling
Plan for tomorrow and day after is to slowly throw away ****, have a second go at the e/r removing redundant cabling, measure accurately the new third cabin and slowly start dismantling the kids cabin as I need to assess water damage there as well (and eventually replace linings)
Currently working at drawing in ACAD the upper helm space and figuring out how my sketch may be implemented for real. Looks OKish atm. More tomorrow.
cheers
V.
Nautorius
Active member
Inspiring Work V! You have so much energy and are still taking the time to get things right like the new Dash! Keep up the Pics...
rafiki_
Well-known member
Nice job on the dash panel V. You are not going to get bored with this refurb by the look of things.
Firefly625
Well-known member
wow, you obviously like spaghetti !
Looks a great job, fingers crossed all works tomorrow!
Looks a great job, fingers crossed all works tomorrow!
vas
Well-known member
I prefer pizza but there's no pizza wiring afaik, so I'll accept spagetti.
It's not that bad (actually it's as it came off the original panel) and tbh I untangled them a bit so they make more sense.
Unsurprisingly, engines fired up on first go, gauges seem ok, so I'll tick that as success
Even managed to get the angle right and secure the dash properly, need to find black allen head 3-4mm woodscrews for the final finish but not in a hurry for that as I'm still waiting for the 2 turbo gauges!
dash now looks like this (sorry photos were taken half an hour ago and it was dark)
Going to increase the hole for the compass 130mm dia against 110mm that was from the old one, so that I can get it upholstered tomorrow (too tired now) and fit it sometime over the w/e.
Got a few Qs and ideas I want to share with you lot but later on.
cheers
V.
vas
Well-known member
me again...
Right, managed to remove the dash flat panel under the windshields (upholstery to be replaced after filling half a dozen holes form old equipment secured on it...) and its removal let me remove the stbrd side helm panel revealing all cabling for me to work on them. Note the reupholstered compass panel on the right hand of the photo.
decided to have a go at removing redundant detroits' cabling to the engine room and to the f/b. 20% was internal afair so easy to sort, the other 80% is nicely split between the two... Opened up all canals/ducts (however you call them) and grouped the two lots.
The usual before
and after (the sorting out of bunches of cables)
need someone to help me now figuring which ones go through and which ones go to the el.panel
The f/b ones are easy (all go there, nothing to choose!) BUT I really need to find a way to remove the inner lining panel aft of the helm seating in order to route the cables out. Not easy!
Now another issue that is becoming urgent is the finilising of the layout for the cabins downstairs...
There were two cabins plus a crew cabin up on the bow, removed it, removed the wall separating the two heads and planning to make it into a third cabin with the two heads moved up to port side.
I do know that most ppl would expect a centrally placed bed on the bow cabin and the two heads either side, BUT wife wants to have a study/work space. I'm being resonable and know fairly well (well that's 22yrs of experience by now!) that unless the design ticks the right boxes I'll be alone in MiToS (ok, with the kids sometimes...). So I opted for an unconventional approach with the double bed on port and workspace on stbrd.
A mix/match of various sketches:
started like this:
and seem to be finalising on this:
The main head has a separate shower area, and by the looks of it I wont have another shower on the mb head (or should I, not sure...)
Trying to sort out a 90-120lt black water tank above waterline (either upright between the heads on the shower area, or under the twin bed which is slightly uncomfortable tbh ) The idea is that I wont need another pump to empty it and the macerators on the heads are ok to fill it up I guess.
Ah, regarding the third cabin, since it's rather narrow at 1.1m (min), I'll go for a bed on the side and a folding bunk bed on the corridor wall, which on folding down creates a massive 1.1m wide bed for two kids to share. Tried various combos with two bunks one on top of the other and a corner setup as per Alf's layout that wont work well as mine is narrower beam and the bed would end up 1.75m long...
Any ideas welcomed!
cheers
V.
Right, managed to remove the dash flat panel under the windshields (upholstery to be replaced after filling half a dozen holes form old equipment secured on it...) and its removal let me remove the stbrd side helm panel revealing all cabling for me to work on them. Note the reupholstered compass panel on the right hand of the photo.
decided to have a go at removing redundant detroits' cabling to the engine room and to the f/b. 20% was internal afair so easy to sort, the other 80% is nicely split between the two... Opened up all canals/ducts (however you call them) and grouped the two lots.
The usual before
and after (the sorting out of bunches of cables)
need someone to help me now figuring which ones go through and which ones go to the el.panel
The f/b ones are easy (all go there, nothing to choose!) BUT I really need to find a way to remove the inner lining panel aft of the helm seating in order to route the cables out. Not easy!
Now another issue that is becoming urgent is the finilising of the layout for the cabins downstairs...
There were two cabins plus a crew cabin up on the bow, removed it, removed the wall separating the two heads and planning to make it into a third cabin with the two heads moved up to port side.
I do know that most ppl would expect a centrally placed bed on the bow cabin and the two heads either side, BUT wife wants to have a study/work space. I'm being resonable and know fairly well (well that's 22yrs of experience by now!) that unless the design ticks the right boxes I'll be alone in MiToS (ok, with the kids sometimes...). So I opted for an unconventional approach with the double bed on port and workspace on stbrd.
A mix/match of various sketches:
started like this:
and seem to be finalising on this:
The main head has a separate shower area, and by the looks of it I wont have another shower on the mb head (or should I, not sure...)
Trying to sort out a 90-120lt black water tank above waterline (either upright between the heads on the shower area, or under the twin bed which is slightly uncomfortable tbh
) The idea is that I wont need another pump to empty it and the macerators on the heads are ok to fill it up I guess.Ah, regarding the third cabin, since it's rather narrow at 1.1m (min), I'll go for a bed on the side and a folding bunk bed on the corridor wall, which on folding down creates a massive 1.1m wide bed for two kids to share. Tried various combos with two bunks one on top of the other and a corner setup as per Alf's layout that wont work well as mine is narrower beam and the bed would end up 1.75m long...
Any ideas welcomed!
cheers
V.
rafiki_
Well-known member
V,
Great update. I like what you are doing with the panels. Should work well and not produce too much reflection in the screen, unless the finish is shiny. If so, then you can get soft finish paint that will look even better. Cabin and heads arrangement looks good too. Is 1.1m wide enough for 2? I guess it depends on the size of the occupants?
Agree with you on being sympathetic to swmbo's requests. Makes life so much easier downstream!!
Great update. I like what you are doing with the panels. Should work well and not produce too much reflection in the screen, unless the finish is shiny. If so, then you can get soft finish paint that will look even better. Cabin and heads arrangement looks good too. Is 1.1m wide enough for 2? I guess it depends on the size of the occupants?
Agree with you on being sympathetic to swmbo's requests. Makes life so much easier downstream!!
vas
Well-known member
rafiki,
yep, leatherete is matte finish as per the compass panel and should be okay (as in dull and not shinny) for the next decade I guess
1.1m minimum width should be fine for two girls chatting/sleeping. Last week we had 5kids (10-13yo) in the house (cousins visiting us) and three of them slept happily on a inflatable bed 1.8m width. Checking them at night, it was okay not even one bumping/touching the other. So I guess it should be okay till they finish high school and stop bothering with us...
More worried on the black water tank size as I doubt that will be enough for more than a couple of days with 2-3adults and 3-4kids on board during summer, but should be easy to empty on the open sea somewhere rather.
Also confused on how to align and bolt properly the compass in place as the curved glass dome on top of it confuse the hell out of me in aligning it properly to bow/stern axis of the boat... Also quite unfamiliar with the screws/metal pieces in the box and how I can (I assume) correct the direction shown based on metal obstructions around (only the gauges and the galvanised steel plate to one side, the rest is just plywood and brass screws.)
Will see.
List of things for next couple of weeks are:
so slowly getting up to speed with minimal disruption from the rib (was hurting a bit last few days but probably due to weather changing...)
cheers
V.
yep, leatherete is matte finish as per the compass panel and should be okay (as in dull and not shinny) for the next decade I guess
1.1m minimum width should be fine for two girls chatting/sleeping. Last week we had 5kids (10-13yo) in the house (cousins visiting us) and three of them slept happily on a inflatable bed 1.8m width. Checking them at night, it was okay not even one bumping/touching the other. So I guess it should be okay till they finish high school and stop bothering with us...
More worried on the black water tank size as I doubt that will be enough for more than a couple of days with 2-3adults and 3-4kids on board during summer, but should be easy to empty on the open sea somewhere rather.
Also confused on how to align and bolt properly the compass in place as the curved glass dome on top of it confuse the hell out of me in aligning it properly to bow/stern axis of the boat... Also quite unfamiliar with the screws/metal pieces in the box and how I can (I assume) correct the direction shown based on metal obstructions around (only the gauges and the galvanised steel plate to one side, the rest is just plywood and brass screws.)
Will see.
List of things for next couple of weeks are:
- measure carefully the trusses/whatever you call the structural members on the hull to assess space and positioning of cupboards, tanks, etc on the cabins/heads
- empty the port cabin and remove furniture/panels et al to acess the internal construction for treating/painting as needed
- draw and prepare the framework for the heads partitions
- finish cabling removal
- sort out electrics in the engine room
so slowly getting up to speed with minimal disruption from the rib (was hurting a bit last few days but probably due to weather changing...)
cheers
V.