MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

[vas]

Good going V. Is the rot and decay about what you expected, or have you uncovered some Oh Sh!t moments?

I knew there was something in the port side (hence the two patches done below the waterline a couple of years ago, and I saw signs of water damage on the lining.

The only slightly oh sh!t moment was when the frame of the crew cabin ceiling was revealed as in pic 3 on my last post (all was double lined...)
Again, plan was to remove the plastic deck thing, the plywood underneath it and the original (now 35yo) teak deck and lay new plywood and teak on top.
So within the greater scheme of things, the extra of replacing 2-3 beams 20X80mm is minor.

The worrying thing is that I cannot really work on the interior unless I seal and sort out the "roof" so to speak, not much point working and water coming in, is there?
Now, timing is not v.good as I need to find a 2-3day window with weather like the one we had over the last week (18-22C sunny, no wind, not a single cloud, just brilliant!) but it started p!ssing down (well not an awful lot, but it's wet)
Hope I'll collect all the bits I want, measure beams, cut plywood and start treating existing timber to be ready.
Once the weather is right and I can steal a few days and that's becoming more difficult as it's coming close to Feb exams and students are keen on coming to the lectures, asking qs and wasting my time (well not really, but I'm more busy than midterm) I'll do the ripping and replacing.

Ideally I'd just glue the teak veneer on top of the existing plywood, but it's badly trimmed and secured with plain screws, so I'm not going to spend my life trying to replace every single screw and hope it's going to be okay, it's less time overall to remove the lot and do it properly and attack the rot wherever I find it. May have to devise some sort of cover protecting from the rain (a scaffolding frame on the ground and the arch on the flybridge may be sufficient, we'll see)

The good thing is that my design for the conversion to 3 cabins is valid and there's still going to be a decent 1.25X1.95 bed for my and the wife in the bow as per the plans posted earlier. I'm in the process of knocking a 3D model of the hull, frame and decks to check available space for storage and fitting a black water tank.

Will come back with more plans and Qs soon

V.

 

[vas]

morning all,

another few hours yesterday and managed to remove all the lining from the main cabin ceiling, the 30mm polysterine insulation between the beams and check around.

Annoyingly, when fitting the thin strips of timber on top of the sundeck (dunno some 10-15years ago), they used dowels every 200mm or so drilling throughout the 15mm ply of the sundeck . Not surprisingly, a good number (say 20-30) of them have leaked in the past (and a few even now) and since I want to have a clean finish and no strippy thing it looks like I'll have to replace the whole deck or I have to devise a way of properly sealing a few hundred 8mm holes

So next job is to get a large enough cover for half the craft and measure and cut two large pieces of new 15mm marine ply.
Need to also check the method that the ply is secured on the timber beams underneath and start the removal job. I hope I wont end up delaminating with a chisel and destroying all the old ply to remove it...

Also removed the lofrans tigres windlass and brought it home for disassembling, checking for wear and replacing all seals (oil's being leaking) but not in a hurry as it's going back in once all bow deck, handrails, etc are restored and back in place (in May-June).

Need to do some studying on epoxy paints vs traditional carmin primer as used by the fisherman around here for decades (or rather centuries...) Probably going to go high tec tbh

cheers

V

 

[MapisM]

Blimey V, your commitment to a proper restoration of MiToS is impressive, to say the least.
Not to mention the time you surely will need...
...are days longer than 24 hours where you are, or did you find a trick to live without needing any sleep?

 

[vas]

Blimey V, your commitment to a proper restoration of MiToS is impressive, to say the least.
Not to mention the time you surely will need...
...are days longer than 24 hours where you are, or did you find a trick to live without needing any sleep?

belated reply and happy xmass everybody!

MM, days are rather short now thank you as they probably are in Italy
I've mastered the work no sleep trick with small success. Could only stay up for a week with allnighters working - rather drawing, mainly in acad/3dsmax 10-15yrs ago, but as I'm getting older I can only manage 2-3 days with 1h/day and then I collapse But that is not manual work mind you.

Temps dropped dramatically currently around 4C, 20cm or so of snow on Pelion since Thu so no work for me. However, that doesn't mean there's nothing to report and ask a few more Qs

Since I've brought home 3 bilge pumps and there are another 2 in the boat connected. Problem is that it seems to me that they are **** by design (I mean I doubt they can handle dirt v.well, and my bilges are not yet clean - on the contrary I'd describe them as rather messy) so they seem to stop sucking anything and I have to get them fixed or use them as door props (previous owner did, so I may as well follow suit...)

Now, q is, do I stick on using them with a filter (it's a 3/4inch piping so it's going to be a mess changing everything to something larger) or do I replace them with proper ones with impelers?
One is currently living in the middle of the craft, with a floater triggering it and dumping stuff on a port side porthole (head of 40cm) and the other is at the lazarete picking up water from a 4way spherical valve assembly in the engine room and dumping stuff on the stern (head of around 60cm).

Mind you having just dismantled one it seems quite clean and not much wrong with it other than the slightly loose bolts securing the assembly, will check next week when work resumes.

rear of the assembly:

top side, towards the cam:

Also would like to report that the oil leaking windlass turns out that it has a cracked casing where there were two moulded threads holding some sort of "driver" subassembly for the chain (looks fairly useless from Lofrans drawings imho) that cracked and previous owner "cleverly" bolted a wood screw there with small success... This guy's a joke!

So, will have to dismantle the lot, order a set of seals anyway, and get the case for welding and rebuilding the support for this driver assembly (that I'll also have to order) Fairly straightforward job as it seems once I get a pulley exractor that would fit and remove the gypsy!

cheers

V.

 

[kashurst]

If your pumps are sound after a bit of fettling, I'd stick with them and put an inline filter in them. I think Johnson do one that will fit 3/4 pipe and its just a stainless gauze with big holes to let most stuff through. It has a clear plastic top that unscrews by hand so its easy to check and clean out. I used one years ago on my first boat that had a filthy bilge for a while.

To clean out your bilges put loads of clean water in first (feels a bit weird filling your boat with water, disable your bilge pumps) pour in a full bottle of washing up liquid or similar and go for a blast when the seas rough for 20 minutes then turn your bilge pumps back on. Works really well.

Once you have got everything sorted the filter will stop filling with gunk. Good luck with it.

 

[vas]

If your pumps are sound after a bit of fettling, I'd stick with them and put an inline filter in them. I think Johnson do one that will fit 3/4 pipe and its just a stainless gauze with big holes to let most stuff through. It has a clear plastic top that unscrews by hand so its easy to check and clean out. I used one years ago on my first boat that had a filthy bilge for a while.

To clean out your bilges put loads of clean water in first (feels a bit weird filling your boat with water, disable your bilge pumps) pour in a full bottle of washing up liquid or similar and go for a blast when the seas rough for 20 minutes then turn your bilge pumps back on. Works really well.

Once you have got everything sorted the filter will stop filling with gunk. Good luck with it.

thanks,

turns out that there was a piece of string that tried to go through the pump and ended up blocking both valves open (a wee bit) and enough for not sucking anything.

removed the piece of string, bolted it back together, works perfectly!
So, yes, looks like I'll keep them (if not anything, they're dead easy to dismantle and clean )

Clever idea for cleaning the bilges, but mine being a plywood/timber hull, means there are sections 40cm wide and that'd be impossible to achieve. So I'll just use soap and a sponge and do it the oldfashioned way (once I clean the heat exchangers and do a few bits and bobs down there)

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

hello all and lets hope for a happy(ier) 2012 (I seriously doubt it though...)

back from Athens, kids on vacation till next week so have an extra problem of entertaining them. Took Rafaela (9.5) with me this afternoon on a lovely sunny and warm day (as long as the sun is out, 6-7C as soon as the sun disappears!) to check with a scrapper, paint remover and other means of assessing the sunpad plywood condition.
So armed with the tools, she ready for the job...

Turns out that it's glued (expected) and bloody NAILED (and very well I may add!) to the iroco (most likely) timber frame underneath it.
Furthermore, there's only decay on the two lower corners.
Removed a couple of the timber strips on top with the 8mm dowels and scraped a bit underneath to reach the plywood. Turns out that at one point the top of the sunpad was epoxy (most likely) coated then the strips were glued/secured on it and I counted at least 3 coats of white flakey paint on top. Good thing is that once the strips are out, it's fairly easy job to remove the paint and go back to a smooth finish of epoxy. So change of plans, will remove all timber strips tomorrow, get timber rod to glue/secure in the zillion holes, sand it and prime it.
Will have to cut the last 20-25cm of this and replace it with new plywood.

The plywood on the sides of this assembly are also ok (will use my 125mm sander tomorrow to clean it up and test) BUT there is a messy detail at the base where it joins the ex-teak walkway. There are some triangular bits of timber there soaked (and it hasn't rained for 4-5days) and I'm slightly puzzled with how it was originally organized and how I'm going to deal with it now. Note that the walkways were originally teak, now covered with 15mm ply bolted with normal (i.e. non inox!) screws to the teak and covered with a linoleum like strippy white thing. I wont avoid removing the lot, cleaning the timber frame and glueing/bolting 18mm plywood on top (to be later on covered with 6mm teak veneer).

I should really document all failures of plywood and source the reason for each one (because there IS, nothing fails just like that unless ill designed or fitted). For example, the lower ending of the frame around the windscreen was "enhanced" with a thin 20x20mm angle edge that obviously kept all water in place and managed to rot the last 20 or so mm of the plywood. Good thing is that it's free standing protruding on top of the sundeck and I can just shave it off and have a slightly different finish without any problems.
Here Rafaela is trying to undo the well hidden screws to remove this edging.

More over the next couple of days before the weather turns nasty and temps drop to around 0...

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

evening,

looking the snow covered mount near by that's also responsible for the temps we get over the last two weeks (0 to -2 at night, 4 to 10 day) I'm tempted to go skiing rather than dismantling.
Anyway, spend a few more 3h sessions and disassembly of the main cabin is almost completed.

BTW, I am struggling with the windows! Some screws on each are worn out and/or solid with the alloy frame. Was warned not to employ brute force in order to remove the frame/glass assembly as I may damage the plywood and the surrounding frame. Hence taking it easy on the first one and then I'll show them Rather confused as there is also a alloy "holed disk/ring" bolted outside and I'm not sure if the two are joined together somehow (I very much doubt it) Anyway, if someone has a clue, I'm listening!


Outside, no progress OBVIOUSLY! will be receiving my Fein multi clone (Einhell 50euro) tomorrow. Cleaned all the mess of my scraping tests and covered the whole area with a thick nylon sheet to keep water out and let everything dry a bit.

Toying with the idea of using a bit of colour outside, painting the recess around the windows (originally in a dark blue) in a dark desaturated carmin (similar to the one on the photo above) and use the same colour in the fb recessed frame extending over the lower helm roof and combine it with some gray for the top of the hull. Anyway, photoshoped proof of concept to follow one of these freezing cold nights

Working on the bilges tomorrow, clear **** and flaky paint, wash, check and let dry. Contemplating if I should remove the "floor" ply as the new layout means that the visiting ports have to change size/place. Wont do it as yet, as it's much easier to walk on a straight surface rather than balancing on pieces of timber all over the place.

Next task (starting on w/e after a day off skiing on Thu) is dismantling the two heads to check hull condition and make space for the third cabin.

l8r

V

 

[vas]

evening all,

Last Wed had a freezing work session, got to the boat 8:30am, (NEVER AGAIN!) temp was 0C inside, running two el.heaters for 4 hours managed a sad 7C in the cabins downstairs and a healthy 12C up in the salon. Only managed to remove 2 doors to the master cabin and heads and do a bit of tiding up after spending 20mins in the freezing cold trying to figure out why my shorepower wasn't working. Turns out that a "patch" in the cable had thoroughly melted and looked like that

removed the offending piece, cleared the mess, connected another new plug and all was fine...

Today was a warm and sunny day, temps up to 12C so managed a good 7h work and both heads are cleared out (second needs another hour work to complete)
Few photos to prove the progress

exceptionally messy piping (original 35yo pipes had perished and replaced with new one, but old bits were left between washbasin and shower...)

oops, awful photo from my phone here, but you get the point.

second heads (very small, not ergonomic at all)

Here you can see that the ceiling of this room is just under the instrument cabling on the helm. Very convenient to have all the damp/steam visiting the cabling...

Few more points:

happy to report that I managed to remove one porthole (on the third attempt I may add...) Seems that the bottom screw on them fills up with salt from outside, electrowhater reacts to the alloy material wearing it a bit and locking solid to the frame...

Now, noticed a bilge pump switch on the main heads just behind the toilet. Is not as nice as it looks as it's only plastic
Q1: is there any point on having it there (it does have an ON/OFF/AUTO mode)???
I'm going to be wiring all bilge pumps through the BMS and seems to me that its a waste. Anyone care to explain the point and use of such a switch originally?

Also noticed that the electric toilets (no idea of brand) have the sea water supply on the fcking front!!! Why would you do that? Why shouldn't all pipework be hidden at the back???
I guess they imply that you "built" them in some sort of plywood construction so that only the upper part of the bowl is visible. Is that the case?
What shall I do to make them look nicer in their new position? Any photos/ideas welcomed.

They do work, so I assume that it's okay to dismantle/clean and reuse, right?

Also re toilets, it's obviously a refit of the original (I assume manual) ones, that had much larger (1 1/2inch???) waste pipe. Since I'll be adding a black water tank, I'll have to redo all pipework and blank these two starboard seacocks (removing them should be lots of fun...)

Going to have another session on Thursday, so should be able to knock the plywood wall separating the two heads down and have a good feel for my third cabin!

cheers

V.

 

[jfm]

Blimey V, you have a massive project there. Continuing to wish you lots of good luck!

I agree there is no point in those b/pump switches. Move them upstairs to the electical panel. Some boats (Beneteau group) I've been on fit bilge pumps to showers where the shower tray is below w/line, and have a (very annoying) manual switch in the shower room, but even if that was the reason for your switches you should still get rid of them and fit auto-pump out shower sumps

That front entry to the toilet pump is a damned nuisance. I dont think the maker intended that the pipes would be boxed in - marine WC makers have for years just produced ugly products and they must just get a kick out of fugliness. Not sure what you can do other than fit very neatly run piping in clips, or spin the pump on the flange (if possible?) so the inlet comes up vertically thru the floor and is therefore hidden (and you can put an elbow on the outlet, if you need to). I know it would hit the budget but if you were feeling like it the best answer is to fit a pair of Tecmas, which work the best and look the best out of anything on the marine market. You want the "Silence Plus" or whichever from that range fits the best - they all have the same mechanicals. Alas they are about e600 each though

Anyway, good luck and thanks for posting the pics

EDIT: btw, the Tecmas use 1.5inch/38mm pipe on the discharge, even though the waste is macerated, so they would suit your existing piping

 

[MapisM]

Blimey V, you have a massive project there. Continuing to wish you lots of good luck!

+1.
V, you make me feel ashamed to have occasionally thought that I was wasting too much of my time in some small jobs onboard...!
Re, your questions, I fully agree with all jfm previous suggestions.

 

[vas]

Blimey V, you have a massive project there. Continuing to wish you lots of good luck!

thanks, it is a massive project, but I'm still running on schedule... Should be back in the water by the end of June, not complete, but useable. Only thing I'm worried is having any silly or not so silly skiing, or refurb related mishap and loosing time in plaster as I've seen it happen on other fellow forumites... So wish me luck in this department for now

I agree there is no point in those b/pump switches. Move them upstairs to the electical panel. Some boats (Beneteau group) I've been on fit bilge pumps to showers where the shower tray is below w/line, and have a (very annoying) manual switch in the shower room, but even if that was the reason for your switches you should still get rid of them and fit auto-pump out shower sumps

ah, had forgotten about that, mind you cables to this switch go nowhere, so no idea how/what it was doing. Will be removed!

Not sure what you can do other than fit very neatly run piping in clips, or spin the pump on the flange (if possible?) so the inlet comes up vertically thru the floor and is therefore hidden (and you can put an elbow on the outlet, if you need to). I know it would hit the budget but if you were feeling like it the best answer is to fit a pair of Tecmas, which work the best and look the best out of anything on the marine market. You want the "Silence Plus" or whichever from that range fits the best - they all have the same mechanicals. Alas they are about e600 each though

Anyway, good luck and thanks for posting the pics

Yep, thought already of rotating the pump 90degrees clockwise, but since atm I'm with no water (cut lots of pipes all over and unless I go back to the pump or plug them right on the spot I don't have any water supply) to clean the potential mess, I'll skip for the time being and will test that next week. TBH, not looking forward to opening up the macerator and cleaning the thing

Thanks for the pointer, would really love a couple of wall hang toilets like the evolution but I have to seriously question their ergonomics (that is overcoming the costs involved!)
FFS, 450mm height for a wall hang toilet??? You're only meant to have them hung at 420m so effectively they should be flush to the flooring???
I have actually noticed that in many cases, toilets are mounted fairly high, is that another marine specialty? Or in marine environments heads are specified for 6ft4+ ppl? (with all the other living space suitable for 5ft6 )
Anyway, I'll report back once I dismantle one of them and try to rotate the pump.

cheers

V.

 

[jfm]

loosing time in plaster as I've seen it happen on other fellow forumites...

My specialist subject (all fixed now!)

FFS, 450mm height for a wall hang toilet??? You're only meant to have them hung at 420m so effectively they should be flush to the flooring???
I have actually noticed that in many cases, toilets are mounted fairly high, is that another marine specialty? Or in marine environments heads are specified for 6ft4+ ppl? (with all the other living space suitable for 5ft6 )
Anyway, I'll report back once I dismantle one of them and try to rotate the pump.

When doing wall hung in houses i always fit them a bit higher than the makers say. I just prefer it that way. I wouldn't be a big fan of wall hung on a boat - I dont think you get the necessary stiffness (as opposed to strength) in the bulkheads. But fitting them high is good imho - they subtend a bigger angle relative to a guy's er nozzle which stops guys who refuse to sit (as I try to encourage guys to do on boats...) from spraying quite so much fine pee droplet-age in your shower room!

 

[vas]

hello from snowy Volos...
Looks like this:

Oddly temps are not that bad (little wind...) so managed to do some work in the heads. I'm v.close to clearing off the two rooms down to plain structure.

Realised that clearing the mess in there, I gathered this lot

(around 30 odd plus a few more in a couple more pipes...)

Main cabin is almost clean (need to remove the 6 windows and scrap the plywood lining.

The rest of the salon/galley looks like that:

I calculated that I'm typically producing 60lt or garbage per 4h work. Looking forward to the time that I start adding things rather than removing...

Next task is to cut down the 15mm ply wall between the two heads, strip the formica like lining on the walls and remove part of the wall between the ex aft head and the space under the helm which is going to become a slightly tight bed... Difficult to describe, photos should be easier. Will have to relocate the air-con compressor and/or heat exchange unit that live there.

more to come soon.

V.

 

[Divemaster1]

Impressive going V.... just hope the re-build is going equally as fast ...

May get to boat this or next week-end .... any picures you want as comparison/ideas ?? (remember that due to engine re-build we are in a bit of a state as well....).

 

[vas]

Impressive going V.... just hope the re-build is going equally as fast ...

Thanks although thats wishful thinking Alf...
No way refitting will be as quick, though I'll feel much better once it starts though

May get to boat this or next week-end .... any pictures you want as comparison/ideas ?? (remember that due to engine re-build we are in a bit of a state as well....).

Yes please, any photos of the stbrd cabin would be appreciated.
Bow cabin layout is going to be quite different on mine, so don't bother.
However, bow access to anchor chain is a dark area for me, so in/out photos could prove helpful.
Corridor photos would be also handy I think.
Few more pics from around the galley and salon may give me ideas for updates.

BTW, how is the engine rebuilt going on? Waiting for spares, waiting for better weather or too busy with real life/work?

Next week will also have to remove the turbos and send them for rebuilt
But I need to empty all the **** from the salon before I can lift salon floor to have some space to work on the turbos.

Lots of work outside as well, but I'll start on March 10C + for me to scrape all hull...

Cheers

V.

 

[Divemaster1]

.....Yes please, any photos of the stbrd cabin would be appreciated.

Will try to do that ... may not manage without stitching as it is tight in there....

...........however, bow access to anchor chain is a dark area for me, so in/out photos could prove helpful....

Access to this is through the crew cabin at the bow, so pretty like yours with draneage down where your sink is...

...........Corridor photos would be also handy I think.
Few more pics from around the galley and salon may give me ideas for updates.....

Will try to do that as well, but galley is pretty packed at the moment with stuff during engine re-build...

...........BTW, how is the engine rebuilt going on? Waiting for spares, waiting for better weather or too busy with real life/work?...

Pretty busy at work and with life in general, but looks like I may get to start with the cylinder re-build pretty soon and will continue posting progress on the original thread...

Good luck !, and I will post pictures as I capture them...

 

[vas]

Access to this is through the crew cabin at the bow, so pretty like yours with draneage down where your sink is...

Hm, that's my problem, since I've removed the crew cabin, I have now an issue of accessing the anchor chain (and windlass relay box)
ATM, I'm considering having a decent cabinet and access the chain from the main cabin (typical in sportsboat setups, Fairline Targa 30something iirc).
However, I would like to have the lever for tightening/loosening the windlass clutch somewhere around and the crew cabin hatch was ideal to knock various things in there, plus some lines.
So I'm seriously considering a modification leading to a shallow hatch at the bow covered with teak as the rest of the deck, just not got any idea how others have done it...

cheers

V.

 

[jfm]

Hm, that's my problem, since I've removed the crew cabin, I have now an issue of accessing the anchor chain (and windlass relay box)
ATM, I'm considering having a decent cabinet and access the chain from the main cabin (typical in sportsboat setups, Fairline Targa 30something iirc).
However, I would like to have the lever for tightening/loosening the windlass clutch somewhere around and the crew cabin hatch was ideal to knock various things in there, plus some lines.
So I'm seriously considering a modification leading to a shallow hatch at the bow covered with teak as the rest of the deck, just not got any idea how others have done it...

cheers

V.

I would say the best access is a deck hatch(es) on the foredeck. Then you can clean it out with hose pipe etc, without going through the boat's interior. I appreciate that putting a hatch in the deck with drain gutters and all that isn't a trivial task.

 

[BartW]

this is the door giving acces to the chain box, from the crew cabin, on BA.

was very handy when replacing the whinch,
but agree with JFM that in your case, a deck hatch would be the best.