MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

[vas]

Great stuff Vas. The angle/overlap joint is called a scarf joint btw, or scarfing is the verb. It adds a nice benefit as you say in making the finsihed surface less prone to cracking by removing a "notch" ie a point or crease with different stiffness from the rest.

John, I owe you another one...

by giving me the right name for this joint, I managed to search successfully on the web, found ways of doing it, and how the pros do it. I'm not a pro, but with the help of George should be able to prepare the area for the first patch. Organised so tomorrow we'll have an electric plane and a belt sander for finishing off...

Preparing for the patches that will follow, I had to remove the flooring on the second cabin. Spent half an hour trying to figure out how to do it without destroying the ply and underlying frame, and eventually decided to scrap the lot. Ply was already affected (and of lower quality to the one I've seen around MiToS), frame was plain white timber.
Further I noticed that after the stbrd side bed of this cabin (i.e. towards the corridor) there's a nice flat bottomed area that I could install my black water tank. OK, I can hear you saying various things, but I'll try that spot as it's just offset from the keel, it's easily accessible, close to the two heads (just towards the bow of this cabin) and plenty of space: Max size of tank I could fit is 1.9mX0.45mX0.50m, that's massive! but could easily fit a 200-250lt tank there.

apologies for the crappy photos, today wasn't a good day for some reason. Note the doubled up frames, the inner patches and the whole mess around this large patch that is about to be replaced:

And a v. interesting discovery! When I was cleaning and generally walking above at the galley (OK walking maybe an exaggeration as you can just about make 1.5 steps in there...) I noticed that part of the floor was feeling a bit loose. Well, found out why. There's a secret hatch sawed in the floor ply and underlying frames. I really don't want to think what the PO has used it for didn't find anything suspicious there

So, all settled for tomorrow's operation

Ref the davits, the bolts will for sure be exposed if you remove the transom lining. But surely you want to keep the davits till you've done the aft deck, becuase they form a nice frame for your canvas tent?

Anyway, thanks for the pics. I'm enjoying following the story

f/b goes far aft almost reaching the transom, so no need of the davits to support my temp cover. Actually it's creating a problem as I could do the job with a 3m high cover and now I need something around 5m plus the stress points at the two peaks. So got to go soon, just checking my options re passerelle before removing them

ah, +1 on rafiki's request for a glossary of terms! Would be v.nice and help me improve my terminology and sound like a pro

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

last update for the week as I'm off to Athens till the w/e

Cleaned and sanded the inside of the second cabin frames/hull ply checking how the whole thing is constructed in order to organise the 2nd and larger patch between 2nd and 3rd chine.

you can clearly see the pieces of ply used to bridge the gap between the old and new piece. Mind, no slanted cuts to be found in the patches, just straight vertical cuts and lots of black sika like rubber:

same here:

Turns out that the chine is a piece of iroko glued and screwed on top of the ply straight under a frame longitual support beam (JFM? terminology plz!)
Effectively we have the normal frames, a longitual beam 30X90 (approx) and a piece of ply at the slope of the hull glued and bolted UNDER the beam.
This way the ply that goes under all that distributes the forces to the frames and longitual beam keeping the whole thing in shape. Nice, clean and it works.
Which means that in order to do a proper patch, I need to cut and remove the chine outside, make the scarph join where the chine fits and refit the chine. This way patch is nicely, strongly and securely seated and I don't need to start adding crappy and awkward looking pieces of timber all over the place. Much neater!
Catch is there's no fcking way of removing 40yo bronze screws and the glue they've used is fortunately strong. This effectively means that the chine is destroyed and George will do new ones in the same shape and same timber to fit after the patch. Sound hard and horrible, but i'm quite happy with it as it makes a much stronger and neat repair.

The port patch was prepared by George and looks like this. It's not fully finished, just roughly cut for now.

note the old scarph joints, just perfectly done:

that's the patch:

However we run out of time so area covered up and patch slopes. mating and fitting will be done on Mon or Tue.

BTW, counted 7 layers of paint on the hull, I think one less than the superstructure

In the meantime, I decided to have a go at the stbrd side just to ascertain that it is indeed in much better shape than the port side.
Did a test excavation as my archaeologist friends would say between the first and second chine (where damage was revealed on the port side) and indeed it's in much better nick so quite happy.
There is a smaller patch (will be replaced!) on the first chine as per the port side but overall condition is indeed better...

enough for today, next installment next week.

cheers

V.

 

[Nautorius]

Vas,

Once again I have nothing but admiration for the Job you are doing. She is being put right in every way. I love all the pictures and please keep posting. The inside of the cabin frames is fascinating...as for the Secret Hold...did she have many trips to Morocco?

Cheers

paul

 

[vas]

Vas,

Once again I have nothing but admiration for the Job you are doing. She is being put right in every way. I love all the pictures and please keep posting. The inside of the cabin frames is fascinating...as for the Secret Hold...did she have many trips to Morocco?

Cheers

paul

thanks for the kind words...

as long as I enjoy the work, all's fine
Morocco, hm, I've seen the old paper charts in the boat, saw routes traced all over the place, she's been practically everywhere around Greece all the way to Corfu, Rhodes, Crete. Have to check if there's any further south, doubt will be marked though

so, back from Athens, managed to buy a s/h gas oven in v.good nick for 150euro. 48cm wide 40 and 42 the other dimensions, in other words reasonable sized one good for a meal for 4+, so happy. It's a SMEV, no model # on the sticker. Task is getting it to fit somewhere but just been on MiToS and it looks like the old chart pocket under the chart table will be removed and the oven fitted there. Bit low for my liking (top of the oven will be at 750mm, but ergonomically sound.

Next task is to get another (larger fridge as I can just about stick a 110lt job under the worktop and move the existing one to the saloon replacing some of the useless cabinets by the new to be built sofa. Sizes match, just a matter of getting the right fridge/freezer at the right price (i.e. cheap! )

Inner of MiToS is covered in a fine dust as George sanded all the inside of the frames/hull/superstructure on the bow cabin and port cabin and couldn't get the vacuum cleaner to fit the bleeding pipework of the small orbital sander He's using a decent mask and goggles but dust is everywhere. Will have to vacuum everything in the next few days, that'll be fun!

cheers

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Vas, what's happened? Why aren't you rebuilding the oven?

 

[vas]

Vas, what's happened? Why aren't you rebuilding the oven?

If you mean the original, there wasn't one
Actually for a 43ft (without a bathing platform) craft galley is well placed but v.small. Just a two gas hob thing integrated in the sink ss assembly and a fridge. I guess it is a 80s thing...
Things are getting more complicated as I'm replacing the series of cupboards with an extra sofa on the stbrd side and I'm trying to find places to store plates and glassware.

If you mean the one I bought, of course, it went downstairs to the garage/workshop to be dismantled/cleaned and examined. TBH, there's a bit of surface rust on the galvanised steel panels around it, but the actual oven is practically new. Well looks as it's never been used.

V.

 

[jfm]

Thanks for update Vas. I gotta say, the original plywood, pic above, is beautiful looking quality stuff. Mahogany or sapele all the way through, it appears, and really well pressed and bonded, and free of voids/joints

Longitudinals have to be "stringers", afaik. It's "scarf" not "scarph" though you can of course be forgiven for "ph" being Greek You only have one chine: the edges below the chine are "spray rails" or "lift strips"

 

[vas]

Thanks for update Vas. I gotta say, the original plywood, pic above, is beautiful looking quality stuff. Mahogany or sapele all the way through, it appears, and really well pressed and bonded, and free of voids/joints

Longitudinals have to be "stringers", afaik. It's "scarf" not "scarph" though you can of course be forgiven for "ph" being Greek You only have one chine: the edges below the chine are "spray rails" or "lift strips"

thanks JFM for the terminology, must find some time to go back to previous posts and do the corrections, not today though

scarφ would be nicer don't you think?

Sometimes I wish MiToS work would progress at 1/10th of the speed that M2 goes, amazing work!

anyway, some reasonable progress after two days hard work:

Removed the floor in the bow cabin (well most of it) after sanding the hull inside. It was only a thin(ish) coat of bilge grey which slightly confuses me. I'd expect they'd done a decent job at coating all the surfaces, but nope. I guess it was a matter of wanting to let the ply breath somehow. I'll be treating all frames/ply with clear penetrating epoxy once the weather turns foul and I wont be able to work outside. Apparently Wed is the last of the alcyon days as they call them here, weather was brilliant, no wind, clear skies and 16-17C, so got to rush and do the port patch tomorrow.

ok, back to work this is how the bow cabin looks now. Yes, still a lot of rubble to be shifted (cannot really call all that plain debris...)

nicely sanded hull sides up to the chine, rest to do keel to use the heatgun and stripper.

Stbrd side patch was opened up, checked and George started cleaning it (one gazzilion ss screws clamping the new thin ply on top of the two final layers of the original with lots of glue... Brilliant workmanship, not!

serious quantities of glue here. It's quite reassuring that the whole thing didn't sink with such bad repairs...

Port side ready for patching, applied the first coat of CPES today, next tomorrow morning before patching.

Here you see the first non scarf joined hull ply. Yes, there's another 12mm ply underneath, but it's rather odd they did it like this. Further, seems that they've also changed ply as the aft one is much more white than the forward one...

Diesel tanks revealed for the first time. Looks like they are covered with fiberglass, look quite original though. Anyone got any clue as what's happening here? Further should I be worried of leaks?

Finally, proud to report that I've only got half a metre left to finish off stripping the port side. Stbrd should be faster as arms are growing stronger and condition is much better on stbrd side!

cheers

V.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Well done Vas, what you have achieved so far is amazing. I'm really looking forward to seeing the end result, she will be stunning. If there was a forum award for hard work and perseverance you would win it by a country mile!

 

[rafiki_]

Well done Vas, what you have achieved so far is amazing. I'm really looking forward to seeing the end result, she will be stunning. If there was a forum award for hard work and perseverance you would win it by a country mile!

+1

Great pix as ever Vas, and really interesting to see Mitos revealed in all her gory.

 

[KevB]

Vas,

Following your progress is the main reason I return to the forums on a regular basis. It's amazing to see the transformation. All your hard work will be worth it and I look forward to seeing the finished project.

Kevin

 

[rustybarge]

Vas,

Following your progress is the main reason I return to the forums on a regular basis. It's amazing to see the transformation. All your hard work will be worth it and I look forward to seeing the finished project.

Kevin

+1

Congratulations on a fantastic blog. I built a 60' steel barge for scratch, so I know exactly what you're going through. I'm amazed how light the frames are, just shows how strong and durable plywood is. I think it's lighter and stronger than fibreglass, and easier to repair.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Well done Vas, what you have achieved so far is amazing. I'm really looking forward to seeing the end result, she will be stunning. If there was a forum award for hard work and perseverance you would win it by a country mile!

I agree with that. This is a huge project that not many of us would have had the guts or determination to tackle. Well, I wouldn't anyway so great work, vas

 

[MapisM]

I agree with that. This is a huge project that not many of us would have had the guts or determination to tackle.

+3.
Actually, not just the guts and determination, but also the capabilities.
Congrats!

 

[Robg71]

Wow, just read this all the way through. What a task, and fantastic work.
Great stuff, brilliant thread

 

[vas]

thanks all for the kind words!

LJS, hard work and perseverance are first cousins to stupidity, right? I'm not complaining as I'm not really the office type person and get bored easily, so serves me right atm

rustybarge, no built thread/pics? pitty, when was that barge building anyway? Regarding plywood, you may be right that it's strong, but don't forget that if it was grp, it wouldn't need repairing in the first place All damage was due to water ingress from the decks above delaminating (mainly) the hull plywood.

MM, haven't felt that MiToS rebuilt is technically challenging as yet. A lot of hard work, yes but nothing technical/exceptional as such. It's going to be more interesting over the next couple of weeks when I try to find ways to support the new heads bulkheads that:

1. are not coinsiding with the underlying frames!
2. are not even parallel to the frames

got a few 1:20 scale printouts at the living room, keeping company to my daughter that wanted to see again! Mama Mia and trying to figure out how to do it properly and still have decent access to the hull from inside, be able to fit floors that wont leak, etc...
Will do some mockups tomorrow and get a proper feel of the space.

Now, two days of hard work and today we managed to fit two of the three w/l patches on the port side. Not being able to use a press/clamp, we resorted to the many small ss screws to keep the edge properly mating the old ply. I'll remove many of the ss screws placed on the edge to the old ply tomorrow and epoxy/sand/fill it

Job was easily done, no hiccups, nice and clean:

Stbrd side stripping progresses in a very patchy way, depending on wind, temp and ofcourse which part of the arms/back ache

Still looks like I'll be finished with the hull before the end of the month

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

quick update,

finished the port side w/l patching with the third and largest one:

Note, there are too many screws some of them will be removed once epoxy cures as they're doing what a clamp should do but couldn't be fitted...

Prepared the stbrd side patch. It's a long orthogonal one, but too long for a piece of ply, so will be done in two:

I had a go at clearing up the mess in the fwd ex-cabin and figuring out the best way to strip paint down to bare wood.
Seems that a combination of heat and sanding is in order, heat first to scrape some extra layers of various colour paint and then finish off with 40grit on the small orbital sander. Corners to be done using the immitation fein tool of mine with a 90mm triangular sanding attachment.

Looks good but awfully messy even with mask/googles etc. Progress is swift though, so should be preparing the framework and construction details for the heads bulkheads very soon. A few questions in different threads to come soon.
Next pic is from the bow cabin looking aft you can see the frames and stringers (JFM?) and the bulkhead. Need to remove the rest of the floor (only 40cm left of this bow cabin) and clean the rest. Mind moving about in an empty hull with lots of thinish strips of timber protruding, keel bolts and whathaveyou is not great fun or relaxing for your feet/legs...

cheers

V

 

[burgundyben]

Next pic is from the bow cabin looking aft you can see the frames and stringers (JFM?) and the bulkhead.

A scanlting in the bilge running for'n'aft I would call a stringer. Similarly, above the waterline a scantling running for'n'aft I would call a carlin.

Those timbers in the bottom of the V that are through bolted to the lower extremities of the frames I would call floors.

Interesting how you have choosen to use a scarf where your ply repairs meet the existing timber, with a moulded or ply hull that's very important, I would have routed both peices to half thickness with a 50mm overlap, but your method looks an excellent job to me.

 

[vas]

A scanlting in the bilge running for'n'aft I would call a stringer. Similarly, above the waterline a scantling running for'n'aft I would call a carlin.

Those timbers in the bottom of the V that are through bolted to the lower extremities of the frames I would call floors.

Interesting how you have choosen to use a scarf where your ply repairs meet the existing timber, with a moulded or ply hull that's very important, I would have routed both peices to half thickness with a 50mm overlap, but your method looks an excellent job to me.

Thanks for the terminology update BB

Moto is better be safe than sorry. In terms of loadbearing properties and transfer of loads from member to member, to my engineering eyes scarf always looks better than other solutions. Turns out that it's not that difficult either. OK, it's not machine made 1:8 proportions, but 1:5 handmade and test fitted a few times

Still thinking if I should sheathe the hull with a fine epoxy mat and the necessary coats of epoxy.
Still not persuaded that it's a V.Good idea as the ply wont be able to breathe at all when out and that cannot be a good thing unless you're absolutely sure you don't let any water in.
Dunno, open to ideas atm!


Today the two patches on the stbrd side were put in place and some of the extra screws that were temporarily fitted were removed and holes epoxied.
Also did some more hull stripping as the weather was brilliant (rain was forecasted though...) and if I do believe these guys, winter is coming by the w/e. Not sure what that means this year though.

Inside, removed the rest of the ex bow-cabin floor and continued paint stripping and finishing with a good sanding (60grit is enough to create a big dust fog although the filter is on...)
I guess that another two full days inthere will get me a clean space to start fitting the new bulkheads. Did my tests both on autocad and with a tapemeasure on the spot, looks good, so happy. Overstressed my wrist and looks like I may be out of action for a couple of days Nothing serious a 30yo damage coming back whenever I overdo it and today it was a matter of not tightening enough the wristwrap I'm always wearing when working manually.

Happy to report that got a bowthruster off e-bay at a good price QL800 5KW/24V and should have it down here by the end of the month.
Should be interesting getting the 185grp tunel to fit and secure on the plywood

Also should be getting a second fridge/freezer 60-70lt for the galley, moving the existing one to the saloon.

BTW, did like very much the grey colour on the video that Portofino posted on the surface drive thread. Will photoshop a pic and think about it!

cheers


V.

 

[jfm]

A scanlting in the bilge running for'n'aft I would call a stringer. Similarly, above the waterline a scantling running for'n'aft I would call a carlin.

Those timbers in the bottom of the V that are through bolted to the lower extremities of the frames I would call floors.

Interesting how you have choosen to use a scarf where your ply repairs meet the existing timber, with a moulded or ply hull that's very important, I would have routed both peices to half thickness with a 50mm overlap, but your method looks an excellent job to me.

Ooh. I would call the fore-aft members "stringers" whether above or below the w/line. In my book a carlin is a fore-aft "joist" that supports the deck. And while we're at it, the athwartships "joists" that support the deck, visible in the Mitos pics, are "beams".

I agree about the "floors" though. If anywhere other than on the boat's centreline I think I'd call them "knees", but where they are they are floors

Finally, I think a joint where you remove 50% of the material's thickness each side of the join is still a scarf. It doesn't have to be tapered to be a scarf.

It's all fuzzy, and the above is just where I am on the topic. I'm happy to be shown to be wrong!