jfm
Well-known member
7hp bowthruster will be excellent. She'll fly round! Good hunting there Vas.
MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43
- Thread starter vas
- Start date
longjohnsilver
Well-known member
Good progress again Vas! As for epoxying the hull I'm no expert but have heard and read varying reports about trapping moisture in the wood and causing more problems than it potentially solves. Are you intending hauling out each winter? If so then I would guess that in your warmer climate the hull will dry pretty quickly. But maybe a different matter if you intend to stay in the water for an extended period. No doubt someone such as BBen will be able to better advise
Divemaster1
Well-known member
V... Impressive progress...............
If the picture is what I believe it is (fwd cabin looking aft towards bulkhead towards companionway), then structurally our boats are similar in respect to placement of stringers etc.. (don't forget to fit those limbering holes before closing her up again
)... but I think we must be deeper than you as I struggle to reach the bottom of keel when inspecting valves etc (about 10 cm above the keel).
I aim to be at the boat this WE and will take some measures... as well as take a picture of the aft deck canopy arrangement, which you may find useful....
vas
Well-known member
JFM: I'm spending a lot of time on ebay these last two weeks, got the thruster, got a 110lt fridge/freezer (ok, not ebay but a greek free ad website) and placed an offer for a passerelle and search light and waiting confirmation.
Also considering a s/h watermaker but I doubt they'll be impressed with what I'm offering
BTW (and I'll probably start another thread on that...) I'm impressed on how far back a planning hull's bow actually becomes submerged in the water! on 13m overall lenght, bow touches the water around 2m from the pointy bit. By the time you try to apply the 1D above, 2D below rule (or thereabouts) you're almost 2.5m from the bow (D is the thruster tunnel diametre)
Luckily, that means an easily accessible space, easy to work and secure under the double berth.
HOWEVER, it's smack on the first spray rail around 40cm after it starts... Do I chop it all and start the spray rail after the tunnel, or what?
Further, with all the alterations, I'm not quite sure how it's going to level in the water and whereabouts the w/l will be on the bow side, so don't want to lift the tunnel too much in fear of getting out of the water!
Seriously thinking of removing the plywood panel on both sides (only 400X500mm piece to the keel and mahogany beam and between the two frames) and custom build the ends of the tunnel from solid timber (well, layers of 40mm pieces) That way I can smoothen and widen the outlets keeping the strict 185mm dia in the central 200mm or so where the two props work.
Now that I mention it, anyone got spare 200mm of 185mm tunnel they don't want?
Searched the web for thruster installations on timber hulls, found only a few and fairly odd ones, not helpful. Did find this rebuilt that was a serious work! Here they drill and fit the bowthruster on a double planked or triple ply big hull.
LJS: yep, unlikely she's going to be in the water for too long, maybe 4-5m a year. Will investigate further and atm I tend towards the sheathing approach. Waiting for as you say BB or also Tom's (LS) opinions on that.
Alf: quite correct, I feel that because of the keel (at that point it's over 100mm) the hull inside is closer to the floor. I'll check once you post some measurements.
OK, very messy and dusty working day with good progress. No chance of working outside as its NW winds, COLD and wet. Looks like I'll work inside for the next week and setup the heads bulkheads instead of doing the rest of the patches on the hull.
Managed to remove the alloy door frames! Well impressed as I've spent a couple of hours in the past unsuccessfully but today after another couple of hours hassle the first one came off and the other three were done in half an hour (all of them!)
Almost finished (1 frame remaining) the stbrd side of the bow cabin hull stripping/sanding.
Fcked up the vaccum cleaner! (as if I didn't have enough dust in there...)
lived for 6h is a dust cloud and I couldn't even take bleeding pics with my mobile as the led flash is so strong that picked up all the dust particles and fcked up the photos, well impressed!
led flash with dust:
no flash with dust:
Removed the rest of the floor of the port cabin and a couple of remaining frames on the bow cabin. So all 3 cabin floors are removed. Corridor only remains to be stripped but not yet as I'll be properly trained for a circus if I do...
Also removed the wardrobe frame/door assembly and the rest of the ceiling panels on the port cabin.
BTW, removed the two seacocks that were in the bow cabin hull and I kept knocking and triping over them. Well, I was trully shocked when the one falled off after turning it for just over HALF A TURN!!! FFS how could they do that??? I'm not exaggerating, it was LESS than a single turn.
enough for today
cheers
V.
Also considering a s/h watermaker but I doubt they'll be impressed with what I'm offering
BTW (and I'll probably start another thread on that...) I'm impressed on how far back a planning hull's bow actually becomes submerged in the water! on 13m overall lenght, bow touches the water around 2m from the pointy bit. By the time you try to apply the 1D above, 2D below rule (or thereabouts) you're almost 2.5m from the bow
(D is the thruster tunnel diametre)Luckily, that means an easily accessible space, easy to work and secure under the double berth.
HOWEVER, it's smack on the first spray rail
around 40cm after it starts... Do I chop it all and start the spray rail after the tunnel, or what?Further, with all the alterations, I'm not quite sure how it's going to level in the water and whereabouts the w/l will be on the bow side, so don't want to lift the tunnel too much in fear of getting out of the water!
Seriously thinking of removing the plywood panel on both sides (only 400X500mm piece to the keel and mahogany beam and between the two frames) and custom build the ends of the tunnel from solid timber (well, layers of 40mm pieces) That way I can smoothen and widen the outlets keeping the strict 185mm dia in the central 200mm or so where the two props work.
Now that I mention it, anyone got spare 200mm of 185mm tunnel they don't want?
Searched the web for thruster installations on timber hulls, found only a few and fairly odd ones, not helpful. Did find this rebuilt that was a serious work! Here they drill and fit the bowthruster on a double planked or triple ply big hull.
LJS: yep, unlikely she's going to be in the water for too long, maybe 4-5m a year. Will investigate further and atm I tend towards the sheathing approach. Waiting for as you say BB or also Tom's (LS) opinions on that.
Alf: quite correct, I feel that because of the keel (at that point it's over 100mm) the hull inside is closer to the floor. I'll check once you post some measurements.
OK, very messy and dusty working day with good progress. No chance of working outside as its NW winds, COLD and wet. Looks like I'll work inside for the next week and setup the heads bulkheads instead of doing the rest of the patches on the hull.
Managed to remove the alloy door frames! Well impressed as I've spent a couple of hours in the past unsuccessfully but today after another couple of hours hassle the first one came off and the other three were done in half an hour (all of them!)
Almost finished (1 frame remaining) the stbrd side of the bow cabin hull stripping/sanding.
Fcked up the vaccum cleaner! (as if I didn't have enough dust in there...)
lived for 6h is a dust cloud and I couldn't even take bleeding pics with my mobile as the led flash is so strong that picked up all the dust particles and fcked up the photos, well impressed!
led flash with dust:
no flash with dust:
Removed the rest of the floor of the port cabin and a couple of remaining frames on the bow cabin. So all 3 cabin floors are removed. Corridor only remains to be stripped but not yet as I'll be properly trained for a circus if I do...
Also removed the wardrobe frame/door assembly and the rest of the ceiling panels on the port cabin.
BTW, removed the two seacocks that were in the bow cabin hull and I kept knocking and triping over them. Well, I was trully shocked when the one falled off after turning it for just over HALF A TURN!!! FFS how could they do that??? I'm not exaggerating, it was LESS than a single turn.
enough for today
cheers
V.
Robg71
New member
Excellent progress there....
What are you planning on doing with your doors now you have pulled the frames out....
(I ask as mine has plywood doors and ali frames, and the doors have bowed loads and should be skipped....would prefer timber frame aand louvred doors)
What are you planning on doing with your doors now you have pulled the frames out....
(I ask as mine has plywood doors and ali frames, and the doors have bowed loads and should be skipped....would prefer timber frame aand louvred doors)
burgundyben
Well-known member
On the subject of epoxy coating the hull, I would say it is the right thing to do, coat it in epoxy and lightweight glass cloth or tissue. But there is a caveat to this, its a matter that one would ignore at their peril.
It is only something that you should do if you are confident that there is no movement or open joints what so ever, in practical terms on a ply boat with assorted mechanical trauma all about the place, keel and sprayrails all off, all fastenings epoxied into place, epoxy stoppered, keel and rails epoxied one, then radius all the corners with epoxy fillets, then epoxy resin, then epoxy primer, then paint.
To do it properley, as outlined above, is a massive job.
It is only something that you should do if you are confident that there is no movement or open joints what so ever, in practical terms on a ply boat with assorted mechanical trauma all about the place, keel and sprayrails all off, all fastenings epoxied into place, epoxy stoppered, keel and rails epoxied one, then radius all the corners with epoxy fillets, then epoxy resin, then epoxy primer, then paint.
To do it properley, as outlined above, is a massive job.
vas
Well-known member
Rob,
I'm keeping the door frames AND the doors. Got to repair the two heads ones as the there's a bit of delam and water ingress on the lower 20cm of them. The reason for removing the lot (for now) is that two doors are moving place and I need to reline the lot with new upholstery and there's no way to do that with the frames in place. Upholstery is stitched under the frames.
epoxy stoppered?? care to elaborate plz BB?
I'm not so keen on glassing the lot tbh, and there's NO FCKNG WAY I'm removing all sprayrails (had to chisel the bit that we removed for the port patch in 50mm bits!)
What I can do is use small patches to strengthen the areas slightly affected (where they previously removed the first 2mm layer of ply), sand carefully the lot and use lots of CPES.
Actually on the CPES, doesn't look like sound ply "drinks" a lot of it tbh... Which in a way is a good thing
Also, BB I worried on trapped humidity on the sheathing outside, CPES also on inside and I do plan to CPES the inside and all keel, frames,floors,elbows,whatever you call the structural members you lot! Hence the hours spent sanding all coats of paint from inside. Further that will let me know exactly what areas are affected at all and what's strong. Mind I can just look up where the stanchions on the deck were and I can look straight down if there's any damage by the chine and then where the ply meets the keel.
To sum it all up, I prefer to make a few more patches than get into this sheathing business, considering I wouldn't remove keel and sprayrails no matter what!
your views much appreciated!
cheers
V.
burgundyben
Well-known member
epoxy stoppered?? care to elaborate plz BB?
I'm not so keen on glassing the lot tbh, and there's NO FCKNG WAY I'm removing all sprayrails (had to chisel the bit that we removed for the port patch in 50mm bits!)
What I can do is use small patches to strengthen the areas slightly affected (where they previously removed the first 2mm layer of ply), sand carefully the lot and use lots of CPES.
Actually on the CPES, doesn't look like sound ply "drinks" a lot of it tbh... Which in a way is a good thing
Also, BB I worried on trapped humidity on the sheathing outside, CPES also on inside and I do plan to CPES the inside and all keel, frames,floors,elbows,whatever you call the structural members you lot! Hence the hours spent sanding all coats of paint from inside. Further that will let me know exactly what areas are affected at all and what's strong. Mind I can just look up where the stanchions on the deck were and I can look straight down if there's any damage by the chine and then where the ply meets the keel.
To sum it all up, I prefer to make a few more patches than get into this sheathing business, considering I wouldn't remove keel and sprayrails no matter what!
your views much appreciated!
cheers
V.
Stopper - filling over the heads of fastenings.
Up to you of course, but for me the value of epoxy is on the outside of a ply boat. I wouldn't put conventional paint on the outside and CPES on the inside, it doesn't make sense.
Inside you need to rely on very good ventilation.
Outside - make it waterproof.
JMHO.
rbcoomer
Active member
From the little I know that makes absolute sense to me too - seal the outside and let the inside breathe. Unless you are taking every bit of the boat apart and can seal every end of every bit of timber, there's no sure way to ensure no moisture can enter under the resin 'skin' and get trapped. This is what had clearly happened to my aging Fletcher- and that's a GRP hull with only timber sole, stringers etc. I'm also going down the CPES route, but given that my task is 1% of what Vas is tackling, I'm replacing every piece of wood and treating each after cutting with CPES. I think in your position Vas I'd skin the outer hull and not the inside - especially given your climate isn't as err... 'damp' as ours in the UK...
Keep up the good work - I look forward to your installments and it keeps me going whilst waiting for suitable weather here to start again!
vas
Well-known member
hm, sorry guys, I just reread what I've posted yesterday and the day before and it's too fragmented and confusing. So, let me start again:
I fully agree with BB and rbcoomer re sealing outside and lettting it breath inside. Thing is how to achieve it...
I see four steps:
To sum it all up STRUCTURAL REPAIRS, HULL REPAIRS and FINISHING OFF will be done for sure!
THE BIG Q is probably a no-no, but there are small patches of ply that I WANT to strengthen a bit inside, so I'll do that on a total of 1% of the whole hull surface, so I don't think it matters really.
HULL REPAIRS-5 is not clear to me right now, as I'm sure it will work, BUT from a forces POV is not quite right, repairing an area OUTSIDE but rely on cohesion in order to distribute the forces of the rest of the hull ply skin to the frames inside! That's definitely not right, may have to resort to widening the frame inside so that the hull forces are evenly distributed. Will think about it and come back with photos and exact approach when I get into it in a couple of weeks. Yes, I do know the right thing to do is to replace these pieces as well but are few and far between and then I will have a quilt and not a hull
I hope it's clearer now, looking fwd to your views!
cheers
V.
PS. anyone knows how the nested lists can be bullets and the outside ones with letters ffs, dodgy BB souped up html codes,
I fully agree with BB and rbcoomer re sealing outside and lettting it breath inside. Thing is how to achieve it...
I see four steps:
- STRUCTURAL REPAIRS
- Spotted two frames cracked across their length (from chine to keel between first and second sprayrail). Replace or strengthen them with extra iroko beams.
- At the existing port patch, one frame is knackered, I guess it was from the attempt of these guys to remove the old ply for the repair. It will be replaced.
- CPES the frames (ONLY!) especially at the floor/elbows where some have had a lot of water to live with and they are not as crisp as the rest
- HULL REPAIRS
- replace as much of the affected hull plywood as I can.
- on the port side, I'll replace from the chine to the keel (approx 2.2m) for a length of around 3.5m No, it's not as bad as it sounds and definitely faster and easier than trying to sort out patches and repairs... (does involve removing the sprayrails which will need replacing as they are so well glued on that the only way to remove them is to chisel them out...)
- sand the lot (of the rest anyway),
- note the weakened bits (predominantly along frames that let rain water from inside affect the ply)
- repair these spots somehow. That I'm not particularly happy, will go the west epoxy manual route:
- remove all ss screws fitted originally and later
- remove 1mm or so of material along the affected area (OUTSIDE)
- CPES it
- repair with epoxy/glass matt and thicker epoxy, get it flush to the rest.
- CPES the LOT outside a few coats. That includes keel and sprayrails of course
- THE BIG Q
- cpes the INSIDE of the hull/ply, That's what pauses the big Q as indeed the hull ply will be sort of saturated with epoxy (seriously doubt it), but will not be breathing and I don't like it.
- FINISHING OFF
- polyurethene paint (2 pack) outside above the w/l
- leave with epoxy below the w/l??? I guess UV radiation is not working in the water or under antifoul
- antifoul (obviously)
- nice bilge gray colour inside (again fck knows if that's properly breathing or not, views/experience needed!)
To sum it all up STRUCTURAL REPAIRS, HULL REPAIRS and FINISHING OFF will be done for sure!
THE BIG Q is probably a no-no, but there are small patches of ply that I WANT to strengthen a bit inside, so I'll do that on a total of 1% of the whole hull surface, so I don't think it matters really.
HULL REPAIRS-5 is not clear to me right now, as I'm sure it will work, BUT from a forces POV is not quite right, repairing an area OUTSIDE but rely on cohesion in order to distribute the forces of the rest of the hull ply skin to the frames inside! That's definitely not right, may have to resort to widening the frame inside so that the hull forces are evenly distributed. Will think about it and come back with photos and exact approach when I get into it in a couple of weeks. Yes, I do know the right thing to do is to replace these pieces as well but are few and far between and then I will have a quilt and not a hull
I hope it's clearer now, looking fwd to your views!
cheers
V.
PS. anyone knows how the nested lists can be bullets and the outside ones with letters ffs, dodgy BB souped up html codes,
rbcoomer
Active member
Hi Vas,
I can understand the doubts on using CPES inside, but likewise the bilge paint. I'm assuming that won't 'breathe' either - if it did, then surely it wouldn't work?
I think I'd need to be confident that the CPES has penetrated the ply completely before effectively sealing up the panels. Can you mock up a small test using offcuts of the ply and Iroko, treat these with the CPES as you would the hull and after a period of drying (perhaps a week?) cut through and establish the actual CPES penetration?
I suspect that resins/glues in the ply construction will limit how far into the ply the CPES goes more than on the Iroko beams. However you have to bear in mind that marine ply should have been treated prior to construction - how well is down to the manufacture I guess? Only if the CPES penetrates through to the centre of the ply would I want to treat the inside of the hull too...
It probably doesn't help much, but the areas of the Arrowbolt floor/bulkheads that had fared worst were the ends and where drilled. This might seem obvious as the points where water ingress naturally started, but the water had clearly been drawn right along the lengths of panels under the GRP 'skin' by capillary action so I think it would be fair to say that all the ply was wet and the ends/cuts remain the most susceptible to rot. By treating the ply with CPES after cutting each section I'm banking on a) sealing the ply all around and b) getting a much better bond between the GRP and the ply - thus preventing an opportunity for moisture to get drawn in. The original concept on mine clearly works in theory up until the 'skin' is punctured - either by someone drilling holes for wires or fixings etc. As you can't possibly dismantle the boat and soak each piece before refitting, I think I'd probably leave the inside apart from beams and bilges. The latter of these is almost certain to get wet, so bilge paint is a must IMHO
Will be interesting to see Ben's take as he's obviously done similar restoration before! Was the inside of the hull painted previously?
Best regards,
Robin
I can understand the doubts on using CPES inside, but likewise the bilge paint. I'm assuming that won't 'breathe' either - if it did, then surely it wouldn't work?
I think I'd need to be confident that the CPES has penetrated the ply completely before effectively sealing up the panels. Can you mock up a small test using offcuts of the ply and Iroko, treat these with the CPES as you would the hull and after a period of drying (perhaps a week?) cut through and establish the actual CPES penetration?
I suspect that resins/glues in the ply construction will limit how far into the ply the CPES goes more than on the Iroko beams. However you have to bear in mind that marine ply should have been treated prior to construction - how well is down to the manufacture I guess? Only if the CPES penetrates through to the centre of the ply would I want to treat the inside of the hull too...
It probably doesn't help much, but the areas of the Arrowbolt floor/bulkheads that had fared worst were the ends and where drilled. This might seem obvious as the points where water ingress naturally started, but the water had clearly been drawn right along the lengths of panels under the GRP 'skin' by capillary action so I think it would be fair to say that all the ply was wet and the ends/cuts remain the most susceptible to rot. By treating the ply with CPES after cutting each section I'm banking on a) sealing the ply all around and b) getting a much better bond between the GRP and the ply - thus preventing an opportunity for moisture to get drawn in. The original concept on mine clearly works in theory up until the 'skin' is punctured - either by someone drilling holes for wires or fixings etc. As you can't possibly dismantle the boat and soak each piece before refitting, I think I'd probably leave the inside apart from beams and bilges. The latter of these is almost certain to get wet, so bilge paint is a must IMHO
Will be interesting to see Ben's take as he's obviously done similar restoration before! Was the inside of the hull painted previously?
Best regards,
Robin
vas
Well-known member
tested it on left overs, not impressed. Actually I can see when I apply the first coat on new ply that it WONT really suck in that much. Which as you mention makes sense, plywood should be well treated! I feel the essence of CPES in my case is in watersealing outside, and stregthening structural members inside...
Robin, it does make sense in your case.It probably doesn't help much, but the areas of the Arrowbolt floor/bulkheads that had fared worst were the ends and where drilled. This might seem obvious as the points where water ingress naturally started, but the water had clearly been drawn right along the lengths of panels under the GRP 'skin' by capillary action so I think it would be fair to say that all the ply was wet and the ends/cuts remain the most susceptible to rot. By treating the ply with CPES after cutting each section I'm banking on a) sealing the ply all around and b) getting a much better bond between the GRP and the ply - thus preventing an opportunity for moisture to get drawn in. The original concept on mine clearly works in theory up until the 'skin' is punctured - either by someone drilling holes for wires or fixings etc. As you can't possibly dismantle the boat and soak each piece before refitting, I think I'd probably leave the inside apart from beams and bilges. The latter of these is almost certain to get wet, so bilge paint is a must IMHO
Actually with two-three coats of bilge paint inside and carmin/lead(not sure on the lead bit...) paint outside which is an oily base thing that does soak in a bit plus a few coats of paint plus 2-3 coats of antifoul, the only damp areas were by the keel and they dried up as soon as I stripped the outer coats.
BTW, the dampness came from some strong Oct downpours that water can in from the bow/anchor lock area (have spotted the place now and will be dealing with it once I uncover MiToS) and I'd not noticed at all, so bilge area had 10-15cm of rain water for a couple of months...) So I don't think it's much of a problem to seal selectively patches inside that I consider weak
yep looking forward to his opinion.
Hull inside was indeed painted originally with a very weak coat of bilge gray paint. Like a watered down coat.
mind I cannot believe that originally all wooden hulls are left raw/untreated inside!
So, yes, Epoxy outside plus antifoul, but what inside? Bilge paint diluted? nothing? CPES?
Curious to hear opinions.
cheers
V.
vas
Well-known member
yet another update and some construction at last! A great change to 14months of deconstruction...
Since weather is too cold over the last few days, spent time in the bow cabin, scraping/sanding/cleaning/hoovering (slightly pointless as there seems to be more and more dust coming...)
Pilion mountain or top of the city managed 1.5m snow since the w/e
Anyway, condition now is not far from fully prepared (as in stripped from paint, extra screws/timber/straps securing cabling etc) and I believe that its going to be ready by the w/e
Even managed to remove the two seacocks on the bow: anchor drain, crew "cabin" (should be mousetrap...) toilet!
Sanded all up to the anchor locker, need a final touchup with the 90mm triangular sander for the corners and small bits and bobs.
So, with plans at hand, had a go at moving the ex bow cabin cupboard one frame towards the bow, so effectively from 600mm wide becomes 900mm wide and is now going to be the main heads. Theoretically straight forward as new position was smaller (slightly) in most dimensions due to moving towards the bow, ended up with 8 or 9 test fittings, carefully marking bit by bit and cutting the 12mm ply. Got there at the end, but took the two of us 3h and most of that was climbing (literally) on frames, chines, whathaveyou marking shifting, cutting. Ah, great fun. If I was 30yrs younger i'd consider that excellent training for ballet or at least parkour. BTW, it's amazing how tiring and uncomfortable is to move about the hull with obstructions nicely placed at 300mm intervals! I felt knackered after 4h there, whereas I feel fine after 8+h paint/antifoul stripping...
New bulkhead in place, tommorow it's measuring/preparing/mocking supports for the next part of the bulkhead which is slanted in plan (i.e. not along the frames as the first one) and sits on a sloping support carefully aligned and bolted on 3frames and reaches the smaller beams of the sundeck above also secured in an interesting way up there.
Ah, to make things even worse, the guys in the yard 15m ago when MiToS came out DIDN'T level the craft accurately (leaning 1deg or so to stbrd iirc) making the use of a spirit level at least interesting.
Anyway, excited with that part of the work, hopefully heads will be formulated before the end of the month (work permitting)
Also decided on using small pebble tiles (you call these 25X25mm tiles that come ready spaced in a net mosaics, right?) for the shower walls with proper elastic grout and glue so no other preparation is needed for these areas. I'll up an updated design plan where it's clear that the way I'm "nerving" these ply bulkheads there wont be practically any flexing that would cause problems to the tiles.
The alternative of measuring/test fitting all the pieces, THEN taking them somewhere to press a formica or other skin laminate doesn't enthuse me as it will be March and the bow cabin area will still an awful mess...
cheers
V.
Since weather is too cold over the last few days, spent time in the bow cabin, scraping/sanding/cleaning/hoovering (slightly pointless as there seems to be more and more dust coming...)
Pilion mountain or top of the city managed 1.5m snow since the w/e
Anyway, condition now is not far from fully prepared (as in stripped from paint, extra screws/timber/straps securing cabling etc) and I believe that its going to be ready by the w/e
Even managed to remove the two seacocks on the bow: anchor drain, crew "cabin" (should be mousetrap...) toilet!
Sanded all up to the anchor locker, need a final touchup with the 90mm triangular sander for the corners and small bits and bobs.
So, with plans at hand, had a go at moving the ex bow cabin cupboard one frame towards the bow, so effectively from 600mm wide becomes 900mm wide and is now going to be the main heads. Theoretically straight forward as new position was smaller (slightly) in most dimensions due to moving towards the bow, ended up with 8 or 9 test fittings, carefully marking bit by bit and cutting the 12mm ply. Got there at the end, but took the two of us 3h and most of that was climbing (literally) on frames, chines, whathaveyou marking shifting, cutting. Ah, great fun. If I was 30yrs younger i'd consider that excellent training for ballet or at least parkour
. BTW, it's amazing how tiring and uncomfortable is to move about the hull with obstructions nicely placed at 300mm intervals! I felt knackered after 4h there, whereas I feel fine after 8+h paint/antifoul stripping...
New bulkhead in place, tommorow it's measuring/preparing/mocking supports for the next part of the bulkhead which is slanted in plan (i.e. not along the frames as the first one) and sits on a sloping support carefully aligned and bolted on 3frames and reaches the smaller beams of the sundeck above also secured in an interesting way up there.
Ah, to make things even worse, the guys in the yard 15m ago when MiToS came out DIDN'T level the craft accurately (leaning 1deg or so to stbrd iirc) making the use of a spirit level at least interesting.
Anyway, excited with that part of the work, hopefully heads will be formulated before the end of the month (work permitting)
Also decided on using small pebble tiles (you call these 25X25mm tiles that come ready spaced in a net mosaics, right?) for the shower walls with proper elastic grout and glue so no other preparation is needed for these areas. I'll up an updated design plan where it's clear that the way I'm "nerving" these ply bulkheads there wont be practically any flexing that would cause problems to the tiles.
The alternative of measuring/test fitting all the pieces, THEN taking them somewhere to press a formica or other skin laminate doesn't enthuse me as it will be March and the bow cabin area will still an awful mess...
cheers
V.
rafiki_
Well-known member
Nice progress Vas, and I guess really satisfying for you to see some tangible construction, not just patching, and preparing.
vas
Well-known member
more progress inside
still stripping paint out of frames (lots of small surfaces, different obscure angles, tools don't fit, you get the idea) sanding them to finish all the dust production for the next stages of work.
Since none of the other bulkheads actually fit on the existing frames, decided to built the footprint on them on 55X70mm iroko beams with a 12mm groove 10mm deep and level them properly at 18mm below final floor level. This way I get to secure them in place properly making sure I get decent access to all underlying hull areas, AND easily mark and cut the 12mm ply floor panels (which will later on be strengthened wtih softwood frames, veneered with 6mm iroko and sanded)
Also worked a bit on the stbrd cabin removing the formica from the bulkheads and preparing for cutting out the old bathroom door in order to move it along the corridor for the new bathroom one... Still a fair amount of stripping and sanding to do in this cabin and a bit of water damage (from leaking shower) in one spot but not enough to be worth replacing large panels (keel to chine)
and a bit on the outside...
trimmed the patches on the hull that overhang the chine. Just need a bit of careful finishing and touching up with epoxy (on some small gaps)
George had a go at finding how the ply is secured on the keel and the chine on top. Remember we're about to replace 2.2m high (ie. keel to chine) and possibly 3m long part of the ply hull on port side.
Looks like ply was on both sides first in with a part of the keel clamping it on top as well as the upper part of the hull construction and chine end clamping on top.
Obviously impossible to recreate, so simple decision wedge it in on keel first and then flush cut and fit on top. Still around 60mm matting surface to iroko beams on both sides, so no problems.
a few skin fittings removed (old manual toilet discharge), massive 2+ inch? and a genius reduction for when they converted to electric. Note the small bottle cut halfway and stuck in the old large rubbery pipe, brilliant engineering!
On the tools front:
]
Weather is meant to be lovely and dry over the next week, so plan is for George to strip hull outside, and me making dust and cutting the doors/panels to be shifted about inside. Should have the new bulkhead positions in place very soon and do the first large scale hull replacement operation by mid week.
And still waiting for opinions on my previous post on the 17th re the process of treating the hull and frames. Any takers?
cheers
V.
still stripping paint out of frames (lots of small surfaces, different obscure angles, tools don't fit, you get the idea) sanding them to finish all the dust production for the next stages of work.
Since none of the other bulkheads actually fit on the existing frames, decided to built the footprint on them on 55X70mm iroko beams with a 12mm groove 10mm deep and level them properly at 18mm below final floor level. This way I get to secure them in place properly making sure I get decent access to all underlying hull areas, AND easily mark and cut the 12mm ply floor panels (which will later on be strengthened wtih softwood frames, veneered with 6mm iroko and sanded)
Also worked a bit on the stbrd cabin removing the formica from the bulkheads and preparing for cutting out the old bathroom door in order to move it along the corridor for the new bathroom one... Still a fair amount of stripping and sanding to do in this cabin and a bit of water damage (from leaking shower) in one spot but not enough to be worth replacing large panels (keel to chine)
and a bit on the outside...
trimmed the patches on the hull that overhang the chine. Just need a bit of careful finishing and touching up with epoxy (on some small gaps)
George had a go at finding how the ply is secured on the keel and the chine on top. Remember we're about to replace 2.2m high (ie. keel to chine) and possibly 3m long part of the ply hull on port side.
Looks like ply was on both sides first in with a part of the keel clamping it on top as well as the upper part of the hull construction and chine end clamping on top.
Obviously impossible to recreate, so simple decision wedge it in on keel first and then flush cut and fit on top. Still around 60mm matting surface to iroko beams on both sides, so no problems.
a few skin fittings removed (old manual toilet discharge), massive 2+ inch? and a genius reduction for when they converted to electric. Note the small bottle cut halfway and stuck in the old large rubbery pipe, brilliant engineering!
On the tools front:
- the 125mm orbital sander by Bosch (second one after the first Einhel one died too soon!) had it's scratch pad thingy wotsit fcked up (picked up more than a few ss screw tips and nails over the last week) so ended up epoxy glueing a new scratch pad (sand paper disks wouldn't hold for more than a few secs on the original one...) and I guess another one will be needed soon
- the second heat gun still is in good shape (Einhel first heatgun died before I finished the supperstructure stripping) and looks like it's going to last the whole rebuilt.
- reciprocal saw power switch (smart safety design by kress) clogged up badly and now wont stay on for more than 10sec, so need to constantly hold it with your second hand making use of the machine impossible. Brought it home to open and clean. Kress is almost 15yo and has worked very hard with no problems whatsoever.
- bleeding Einhel lithium powered powerdril is playing up lasting too short a time and clutch slipping and making funny noises
]Weather is meant to be lovely and dry over the next week, so plan is for George to strip hull outside, and me making dust and cutting the doors/panels to be shifted about inside. Should have the new bulkhead positions in place very soon and do the first large scale hull replacement operation by mid week.
And still waiting for opinions on my previous post on the 17th re the process of treating the hull and frames. Any takers?
cheers
V.
rafiki_
Well-known member
Sorry Vas, can't help on the wood treatment. You know far more than me on this. One of the previous owners was a great Plummer! Good diameter conversion mod with the bottle
tomcourtney
Member
Hi Vas
Your efforts are bordering on legendary, deserves at least an ebook on completion. Makes me relieved though I didn't buy a wooden boat I fell for.
In the end I bought an '86 Dutch Steel Cruiser with twin engines and plenty of airflow built in. A design which has been commercially rated 60 miles from port, not the usual river and coastal, so it should get us to Crete, slowly, maybe via Volos
Not sure about the tiles in the heads though, not everything from the good old days was good, personal opinion - tiles are a house thing, not for boats.... but then what do I know.
Your efforts are bordering on legendary, deserves at least an ebook on completion. Makes me relieved though I didn't buy a wooden boat I fell for.
In the end I bought an '86 Dutch Steel Cruiser with twin engines and plenty of airflow built in. A design which has been commercially rated 60 miles from port, not the usual river and coastal, so it should get us to Crete, slowly, maybe via Volos
Not sure about the tiles in the heads though, not everything from the good old days was good, personal opinion - tiles are a house thing, not for boats.... but then what do I know.
Divemaster1
Well-known member
Hat off for you V... think I would have schrunk into a corner crying facing the challenges you are.... She'll be good as (if not better than) new when you're finished....
Got to love the innovative plumbing though!!
That through hull fittings looks pretty solid from what I can see in the picture .. if it is the original one from 40 years ago, that is pretty impressive.
... off to the boat for some minor tinkering... going to finish off that aft deck removal...
Got to love the innovative plumbing though!!
That through hull fittings looks pretty solid from what I can see in the picture .. if it is the original one from 40 years ago, that is pretty impressive.
... off to the boat for some minor tinkering... going to finish off that aft deck removal...
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rustybarge
Active member
Divemaster1
Well-known member
V... as promised....
Bottom of keel to top of deck @ bulkhead = 75 Cm ...
From top of keel stringer to top of deck @ bulkhead = 60 Cm
..... and this is the aft deck canopy arrangement ... basically a SS tube sliding inside another with a locking bolt. Canvas buttons in at the back of a teak list underneath the flybridge and rolls out as the inner tubes slides backwards. Use tie-backs to aft cleats. Single rope fastened at centre of canvass that is tied to railing on flybridge to form the peak (A) that ensures water running backwards & out to the sides.... simple and effective as I do not wish to have a full aft canopy, but every now & then it is useful to have that lillte bit of extra cover..... got a reversable 1/2 single side as well, in case I need to provide additional wind shelter ...