MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

[rbcoomer]

Vas,

Now it starts to look neat .... consider dropping the side panels between the two elements ... so you have a open V shape between the steering pump and the Garmin ... keep the compass above the plotter... open V shape between the two elements will make water drainage a non-issue..

I thought the same to start with, but then wondered if Vas left the sides in-situ to support a protective 'lid' when not in use (helming below etc)? Whilst a lid could of course incorporate the side sections, it would make it awkward to stow. It's quite a difficult shape to have a sliding lid too...

 

[vas]

Robin, you're once more spot on

Alf, it would be rather complicated tbh and I'm afraid the constructional details in 12mm ply would be cr4p....

JFM, no worries, just fire up all ideas: some of them are picked up, others filtered in and very few ignored

Now, I think I better try to explain my thinking behind operating MiToS with the family.

First, its going to be used a lot in anchorages, v.v.rarely in marinas and I recon for a series of reasons 70-80% of the distance covered will be in flat seas and displacement speeds.
Son is getting v.easily motion sick on anything! even bleeding car lately (wasn't like that when he was up to 7yo, it's a new thing that puzzles me). As a result I want to be v.careful on where/how I travel as I dont want to loose him.
Daughter is the structured/technical minded one (at least I got one of the two kids right ) and I'm not going to discuss the wife on this respect...

So I'll be mostly on the f/b with the two kids.
Haven't got a decent plan of the f/b and the overal layout, it's in some shabby sketches somewhere in a folder. I will do a plan at some point during the winter and would like your views. There will be a reasonably comfy bench that will fit us three from centre to stbrd. This bench/sofa will be turning astern at the stbrd end creating an L shaped sofa (with a twist), with a fixed (maybe?) table in front.
The "twist" is that the backrest of the 3seater facing fwrd, will be reversible so when at anchor it will move to the other side, creating a proper L sofa for socialising/sitting around the table/etc. Haven't seen it anywhere else, but seems v. reasonable thing to do at the size of my f/b.

I think I did mention that I want to work on a fairly tight budget for now and add things later. Considering that your 2X15+ inch screens on your beautifully and ergonomically designed helm cost half the value of MiToS rebuilt (ffs, I paid for MiToS the amount that the grp mold/production f/b helm cost on M1!) I've decided that the Garmin GPSMAP 520 is perfect for the pod, hidden there for the helmsman and the kids could be checking routes, bouys, etc in one of the net/notebooks on board. My decommissioned Asus901 connected with the 20USD USB2NMEA cable can have all the bus data (GPS, AIS, etc) integrated in OpenCPN and they can enjoy the route and fooling around with screens (and all that for 20USD ). Here the wide shelf and my extension will come in v.handy.
There's going to be a VIMAR IP67(I think) socket under the shelf with a custom plug for the USD2NMEA and obviously 220V from the inverter to keep the notebooks running

Further, the longest distance between islands I'll ever have to cross will be 50nm when crossing to Lesvos and Turkey, everywhere else there's an island every 5-10-15max nm. So planning is going to be fairly easy and if the going gets tough the tough find an isle and hide for a week or two ('cause if the tough get going, he'll be going alone the next year if you get my drift

Concluding, the social space in the f/b design as well as the helming is I think covered (at least conceptually) in a slightly unconventional method for typical N.Europe boating. Don't forget that I'll be using MiToS from June/July till Oct at best, so the August meltemi is what I'll be dealing with.

Back in track v3.2 is implemented to almost 50%

12mm ply, v.happy with the fitting, took me 5h though as I first had to chop the v3 to as low as it would go THEN mark the new ply, cut, mate surfaces, etc.
Almost managed to get the steering shaft to the centre of the pod and looks much better now. Garmin is a reasonable fit with enough space for a set of toggles for windlass, a/p and maybe even trim tabs in there.

the two holes I cut in order to have access and be able to connect all the wiring:

sides done:

almost plan view:

George also came and finished the last patch on the f/b deck. The whole width for around 200mm was removed (needed no less than 5patches due to bolts working loose/filling with rainwater/rotting, y'now normal stuff...) One part of the frame was replaced with a new piece of iroko, shaped in place (twin curvature ) and now all done and ready for epoxying.

Also had my first almost proper accident, cut a deep 12mm groove in my right thumb, sheer stupidity/negligence. H&S would be impressed to see me working a small angle grinder without the protective shield and with a 180mm dia inox cutting disk
Anyway, nothing that clear 95% alcohol, a napkin and a bit of insulation tape (white to match the napkin..) wont solve.

Plan is to get cracking on the aft deck (I know I've said that a few times before but more interesting things to do...) replace the lot and then cover up the whole boat with the 8x14m 190gr/sqm tarpaulin and start working inside.

cheers

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Interesting stuff Vas. Getting the right spec for the family is very important, unless you want to be a solo boater. You do have a wonderful cruising area though, so ther will always be something new for your children to see.

F/bridge dash coming on nicely.

 

[BartW]

The "twist" is that the backrest of the 3seater facing fwrd, will be reversible so when at anchor it will move to the other side, creating a proper L sofa for socialising/sitting around the table/etc. Haven't seen it anywhere else, but seems v. reasonable thing to do at the size of my f/b.

On Blue Angel, I have sort of a similar twist on my fb helm seat,
in the left bottom corner of the pic,
might give some inspiration, (sorry its the only pic I have from this)

when the backrest is in its forward position, I can lean on it with my arse, when helming while standing.
Or you can sit on the bench looking to rear.

I have been thinking to move this bench to port, and fix 2 x recaro seats on that position, but actually I'm quite happy with the bench for now. can sit or lie on it in many weird positions ;-)

then another interesting item is the fb table,
in the picture, its in the folded position, (for drinks during normal day use)
when you turn the top 45° clockwise, 4 x support beams appear,(these remain in diagonal fixed position) and you can fold open these triangle segments which are on top of the square middle panel
the triangle segments then rest on the beams
then you have a big table for dinner with 8+ ppl
difficult to explain. need a scetch ?

 

[vas]

Interesting stuff Vas. Getting the right spec for the family is very important, unless you want to be a solo boater. You do have a wonderful cruising area though, so ther will always be something new for your children to see.

F/bridge dash coming on nicely.

thanks raf, I always have this problem of imagining the needs of the family on whatever I design... After 10yrs with the kids, I can work their needs out, but even 23yrs with wife are not enough to understand her, I guess that's normal

On Blue Angel, I have sort of a similar twist on my fb helm seat,
in the left bottom corner of the pic,
might give some inspiration, (sorry its the only pic I have from this)

when the backrest is in its forward position, I can lean on it with my arse, when helming while standing.
Or you can sit on the bench looking to rear.

aha!
I'll buy that! it's simpler than my rather elaborate and difficult to switch from helming to socialising version. Actually it's genius, thanks a lot!

then another interesting item is the fb table,
in the picture, its in the folded position, (for drinks during normal day use)
when you turn the top 45° clockwise, 4 x support beams appear,(these remain in diagonal fixed position) and you can fold open these triangle segments which are on top of the square middle panel
the triangle segments then rest on the beams
then you have a big table for dinner with 8+ ppl
difficult to explain. need a scetch ?

yeah! you completely lost me there Bart!
However, I'm on 43ft and the f/b is 2.5m wide only so no space for dinner table for 8 I'm afraid. Just a corner sofa for 4-5ppl or one lying on each side

Short update,
Following this nasty cut in my finger, I only did a bit of cleaning yesterday and managed to get the aft deck from this ugly mess:

to this:

Today I spend the full day under glorious sunshine and warm weather reaching 20C on the f/b. Half the time was swearing trying to dismantle the fcking f/b railings, using wd40, heat, impact drivers, more heat and eventually a cobalt 3mm drill bit and a plain old 5mm afterwards
Ralings are all alloy, all stanchions are featuring at least 4-5 unwanted holes in them that need welding, filling, sanding and unfortunately anodizing at the end of it all
Main railing is shabby and should be polished and restored somehow... Seriously tempted to replace the lot with ss but it wont be easy, we shall see...
Or if someone has an idea of a good v.sticky paint for alluminium just shout!

Took me 3h with 40 and 60grit on the 150mm orbital sander and a small trianglural 93mm sander to fully prepare the f/b deck and shelf for painting. Weather tomorrow is going to be nice and warm, so I'll do the epoxy with paint tomorrow morning. Pics to come on the colour coding

On a lighter note, I was unpleasanly surprised when I used a few bits of delam ply I brought home from MiToS to light the fireplace a few days ago; they went up in flames in secs
Good for the fireplace though

cheers

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Nice to see the Mitos recycling plan working well. I don't think there will be a paint finish for your alu rails that will look good, unfortunately. I know you have covered this before but is there a chemical dip that will clean and finish the alu?

 

[EME]

I frequently am humbled ..

.. but this is beginning to take shape and doing my head in as to how you 'saw' her.

We have some special aluminium coatings done in Germany . I suspect you will hate them on basis of cost but delighted to give you the references!

 

[vas]

Nice to see the Mitos recycling plan working well. I don't think there will be a paint finish for your alu rails that will look good, unfortunately. I know you have covered this before but is there a chemical dip that will clean and finish the alu?

that's a small scale recycling plan raf, when I did my house I had over a ton of chestnut beams to burn in the fireplace, took me 3yrs!
There is a chemical dip, BUT spend some time today trying to sand a few of them supports and the results are not good.
For some odd reason PO has beaten the hell out of these supports, dunno what he was up to but they have lots of dinks, grooves, you name it.
Now, since they were originally anodised and then he primed them (with the carmin thing) and then brush painted silver again all dinks show once you sand them.
Went ahead with the 150mm dia orbital sander I'm using for all flat surfaces and with a 120grit paper and here's what it looks like after 5mins on each:

I can obviously try a 60grit to "cut" all or anyway most of the marks off and then finish off with a 180 or so, but I need to find what I'm going to do afterwards!
BTW, tomorrow these are going to the machine shop to weld 5-6 holes on each one and fill the base that's badly pitted on a few. Originally the stanchion was supported with 3 6mm hex screws (120degrees apart) When they failed, PO did various tricks in mixed order:

• drilled 3mm holes on the top (two on each) and bolted a ss countersunk on each side
• overdrilled the bottom holes and fitted M10 bolts with massive allen heads (that I cannot remove )
• tightened it down with wires???

So now I have to fill/weld the M10s so that I can redrill and fit M8s all around. Have only managed to do 5 of them already and have them currently on MiToS to support the railings.
Slight catch is that the weld comes proud of the area and I have to file and then sand it down to a smoothish finish. That'll take some time.

Next pic shows a perfect bottom on the left and a badly pitted on the right. Unfortunately the rare one is the one on the left

.. but this is beginning to take shape and doing my head in as to how you 'saw' her.

We have some special aluminium coatings done in Germany . I suspect you will hate them on basis of cost but delighted to give you the references!

EME thanks for the kind words, don't forget I'm a designer and I get to feel and imagine something way before getting it down to paper/drawing and doing it...
However I early on realised that designing is too important to do it for money so turned into teaching
I just need my design fix often and I rarely find someone to do things the way I want them hence I'm diying mostly (that's the typical excuse for the wife, but it's true ton an extent!)

re aluminium coatings, I need to keep my options open, so please do sent any info!

At the moment I have:
plywood deck and teak on top in June
aluminium stanchion supports
secured with M8 SS bolts and bronze nuts
In these supports come 33mm external dia (and 3.2mm thick) aluminium stanchions
secured with now M8 ss headless jobbies (sorry cannot search back right now for the proper term that JFM gave me )

All this has aged reasonably well considering its 37+yo

One solution would be to scrap the lot and do it in ss
not happy as I quite like the original setup!

Another option is to find new pipe and redo bits (mainly the f/b stanchions that are excessively drilled and damaged.

HOWEVER, I need to get a finish to that lot

The stanchion supports are small enough to send them for anodising again with a reasonable cost.
The rest is I think splash painted somehow very thinlly/badly. Got to try with wirewool or polishing compound and see what happens.
The stanchions are 600-700mm high
The actual railing is in 4m long pieces

Concluding, no mater what I do with the small bts of the stanchion supports I need to clean/polish/coat/whatever the railings and stanchions.

So, any ideas welcomed!

cheers

V.

 

[Mr Googler]

Have you considered sanding and polishing them on a buffing wheel. I did quite a few aluminum bits on a few bikes over the years. Obviously they weren't as bad as yours to start with but came up to a mirror finish in minutes.

Would take you a while that's for sure but you certainly have patience

 

[vas]

Have you considered sanding and polishing them on a buffing wheel. I did quite a few aluminum bits on a few bikes over the years. Obviously they weren't as bad as yours to start with but came up to a mirror finish in minutes.

Would take you a while that's for sure but you certainly have patience

yes I have but I understand that whatever buffing, they'll come nice and shinny for a few weeks but by Sept they'll be dull and need extra buffing, no?
I mean you cannot just leave untreated un anodized aluminium like that and expect it to work in this harsh environment?
Did you laquer or do something as a top finish to your bike bits?
and most importantly did you destroy the anodizing by the polishing?

Yes, I can be patient especially if I know it's going to work

BTW, haven't had much luck with 32mm OD aluminium with 3mm walls (only getting 2mm which is going to be too thin) found locally a 33mm with 6mm wall though

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Vas, could you pop the bases into a lathe and see if you can turn a new finish? You could then re anodise with no lumps or bumps?

 

[vas]

Vas, could you pop the bases into a lathe and see if you can turn a new finish? You could then re anodise with no lumps or bumps?

thought of that but it's going to be a pig of a job to align them properly on a lathe as the cone is assymetrical and checking them carefully I *think* there's a port and stbrd side to them as well
Will investigate further once I clean a few more and see, but I think I'd rather do the 60grit to 180 in passes and then anodizing unless EME's suggestion works out better/cheaper.

V.

 

[rafiki_]

thought of that but it's going to be a pig of a job to align them properly on a lathe as the cone is assymetrical and checking them carefully I *think* there's a port and stbrd side to them as well
Will investigate further once I clean a few more and see, but I think I'd rather do the 60grit to 180 in passes and then anodizing unless EME's suggestion works out better/cheaper.

V.

It will be really hard to do this by hand. Good luck

 

[CobraYellowfin]

Powder coat?

Vas
Is it possible to powder coat?
I'm not sure, but would have thought it possible on alloy

That way you can pick whatever color you like for the bases and rails
(Surprisingly the silver powder coat I've seen looks quite good)

Just a thought


Andy

 

[Mr Googler]

yes I have but I understand that whatever buffing, they'll come nice and shinny for a few weeks but by Sept they'll be dull and need extra buffing, no?
I mean you cannot just leave untreated un anodized aluminium like that and expect it to work in this harsh environment?
Did you laquer or do something as a top finish to your bike bits?
and most importantly did you destroy the anodizing by the polishing?

Yes, I can be patient especially if I know it's going to work

BTW, haven't had much luck with 32mm OD aluminium with 3mm walls (only getting 2mm which is going to be too thin) found locally a 33mm with 6mm wall though

V.

Hi Vas

I polished up the pieces, wiped down with acetone and dried, then sprayed with 3 -4 coats Alloy Wheel Clear coat(VHT I think). Stood up well to the abuse especially the heal guards on the rearsets that get rubbed against a lot.

It would be lots of work though

 

[vas]

thanks for the input,

discussed again with the guy that did the chrome plating for my interior light fixtures and I trust his opinion.
He believes (and it does make sense) that unless you go for anodizing, whatever else you do (powder coating, spraying etc) will be OK up to the point it is stressed and the coating flakes off the alloy.
I'm talking about the stanchion supports, so there flaking can happen on the threads where the M8s fit and most importantly on the top rim where the stanchions fit (and occasionally move/rub against it)

Considering the relatively small size of them, I'll most likely anodize them (waiting for EME's option and looking for liquid metal applications for the dinks, grooves, etc).
The rest (i.e. the pipework) will be initially polished and see how they look.
Took the first 5 supports for welding/filling of holes today, will report tomorrow when I get them back and redrill and sand them.


A bit of progress with the annoying weather we had last couple of days. Managed to get the first coat on the f/b helm area:

The option of:
5%black for the light grey,
30%black for the dark grey and
80%black for the "black"

is not quite right as 30 and 80 are surprisingly close
To get an idea, from the f/b deck up to the "shelf" it's 30%black. The slanted part where the gauges fit and the pod with the steering are 80% black.
Er, definitely doesn't look like. Mind the 80%black was still wet when I took the photos, the 30% was two days old. The dark patches on the lower part are simply wet thick epoxy with some 80%black dye on it...
Anyway, not to worry as it's just testing with epoxy colours, did some filling of screw heads/dinks/etc and depending on rain and cold I may manage to sand and get another coat before covering up for the winter.

Excuse the lousy detailing but I only had a small roller and no brush
Mind it does look v.good in the photos, not so in real life, but I've not actually done any proper filling, just the very rough bits, so not complaining.

cheers

V.

 

[rbcoomer]

Wow!

Hi Vas,

That's quite a transformation - amazing what a bit of 'paint' will do!

I'm not actually surprised that 30% & 80% are close as surely the base is neutral - in effect colourless? I think you are increasing the particle density (and thus coverage) but not the tone/colour... Did you try adding white pigment? I'd have though that 5% black + 5% white would be very similar to 40% black + 40% white, but the latter would improve coverage? Thus for the 'black', use 80% black, but for the grey perhaps 60% black & 20% white?

Don't take my word for it however as I'm no resin expert! Perhaps a test somewhere...

Best regards,

Robin

 

[vas]

Hi Vas,

That's quite a transformation - amazing what a bit of 'paint' will do!

I'm not actually surprised that 30% & 80% are close as surely the base is neutral - in effect colourless? I think you are increasing the particle density (and thus coverage) but not the tone/colour... Did you try adding white pigment? I'd have though that 5% black + 5% white would be very similar to 40% black + 40% white, but the latter would improve coverage? Thus for the 'black', use 80% black, but for the grey perhaps 60% black & 20% white?

Don't take my word for it however as I'm no resin expert! Perhaps a test somewhere...

Best regards,

Robin

indeed a great transformation

I realised that the way I described my colour mixings is confusing, so will have another go

Right, I use on these coats 40%pigment 60% epoxy. That's approximate ratio after various tests to get decent coverage. Don't forget these coats are more or less filler coats -either sealing small hairline blemishes or generally showing where filler is needed (cannot do that on clear epoxy!) hence the darker patches on the 30%grey that shows in the pics above (filler using the darker pigment as that was available yesterday )

The pigment is mixed separately and when I'm saying 30% black I mean for every 100mg of WHITE base I mix with 30mg of BLACK and 5% means 100mg white - 5mg black.

tbh I don't dislike the two dark greys it's just I'd really like a bit more of a difference but again that can be done with different types of finish, brilliant vs gloss etc. We shall see, got to see also what the wife thinks of it (always threatens she's going to come and visit but never manages...)

cheers

V.

 

[jfm]

Imho Vas the greys you are mixing are too dark. Seems to me you need to be in the 3-20% black range to get lighter grey and then some areas of darker grey. I'd expect there is quite a differnce between say 3% and 6%

It's not much of an analogy in terms of paint chemistry but I've recently ordered some mosaic tiles in mixed blacks and greys then had to specify a % of bright silver tiles to create a speckled effect. I was expecting a number like 10-15% silver tiles but no way. The sensible choices were 1,2,or 3% and all three of those looked different. I ended up speccing the 1%

Anyway, we're all sitting in our comfy armchairs enjoying your boat building and I gotta say I really can't wait to see her fully painted

Later on, when you get to exterior upholstery, I can help you with silvers and greys if that's what you choose. I have samples here of just about every grey and silver vinyl, movida and sunbrella here and I've made all the selectiosn for Match 2 so I'll happily post the whole lot in a parcel to Volos when you're ready

 

[petem]

It's not much of an analogy in terms of paint chemistry but I've recently ordered some mosaic tiles in mixed blacks and greys then had to specify a % of bright silver tiles to create a speckled effect. I was expecting a number like 10-15% silver tiles but no way. The sensible choices were 1,2,or 3% and all three of those looked different. I ended up speccing the 1%

Crikey that was tough decision I imagine!

Anyway, we're all sitting in our comfy armchairs enjoying your boat building and I gotta say I really can't wait to see her fully painted

You're not going to let me live that one down are you!