MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

[MapisM]

Robin, I'm not either sure it's going to look good with this ledge thing.

I don't dislike the idea as such, but two things make it look as a weird sort of shelf, imho: the fact that it's horizontal, and that it's an extension of the steering pump box.
I'd rather think about a lip covering as much as possible of the dashboard, and with a downward angle towards the bow - something along the lines of the sketch below.
Btw, you shouldn't forget that a convenient way to cover the f/b helm is an absolute must, to protect it from sun and rain, and a straight lip extended over the whole dashboard could in turn be used as a support for the canvas cover.
With apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs...

 

[Divemaster1]

Navigator - Bow & Roller arrangement

Vas,

Hope you don't mind me posting here, but you asked me in another post to take some pictures of the bow, winch & roller arrangement on Navigator, so here you go...

 

[vas]

How about a nice section of tinted Perspex instead of the ply shelf? Would provide the shade needed but also allow you to see the dials from an oblique angle.

nice idea wakeup,

not sure how it's going to end up, I guess it's going to develop on the spot with the jigsaw
The idea of the ledge over the dials was to:
A. cut the sun so you can see what's going on
B. protect from lots of rain and dirt
C. help in creating concealed mounting points for a small, flexible cover for the area

At one point I was sketching some foldable/shiftable bits of ply that would work as shades and then pull and tilt over the dials to cover them completely for storing...
Perpex is going to indeed be functional, but you have to see my son and his crazy friends playing hide and seek on the boat, steping on anything and even jumping over the f/b helm to the ceiling and rolling down the sundeck

One of them broke a piece of the perspex screen on the f/b helm and I'm seriously considering not having one, or having a very short one (original was around 350mm high, maybe a 200mm one or nothing at all!)

Vas,

I think the colours look great. Certainly a satin rather than full gloss finish wouldn't show as many imperfections. As with satin and Matt finishes on cars, either painted or wrapped you can't polish them, just needs a wash off.
You've been quite bold with the colours, I love the look of it and hope u decide on a matt/satin finish. The boat is a really striking design (I'm biased obviously) and think a clean, satin finish will really compliment the decks and alloy hardware. Some purists will scowl of course but I think it's gonna look stunning and can't wait to see the end result.

My boat is obviously the sister ship of yours so its really good to see what can be done with a bit of flare and bravery!

probably we are both biased Pete.
Have to say that looks better on the pics than real life atm, as the lower helm ceiling needs a days at least work filling and sanding. Sundeck probably 3days...
But the combo of
5% black for the sundeck
35% back for the rest of the superstructure
80% black for the dark frames around the windshield and the protrusion of the f/b helm should make an interesting design stressing the original lines.

Looking great Vas. I think a lighter grey will work better on the sundeck. 5% black or something. But you have already figured that one out, from your post.

Fantastic stuff anyway. Much credit to you

I'm not convinced about the shelf over the tachos either, but that's a small point

thanks JFM, as I wrote above, we shall see if/what shelf there will be at the end
If I'm lucky with the weather (meant to be raining for the following 4-5days) I'll place the steering wheel tomorrow morning and sort out the engine controls and mock up the box for the steering wheel and compass.

I don't dislike the idea as such, but two things make it look as a weird sort of shelf, imho: the fact that it's horizontal, and that it's an extension of the steering pump box.
I'd rather think about a lip covering as much as possible of the dashboard, and with a downward angle towards the bow - something along the lines of the sketch below.
Btw, you shouldn't forget that a convenient way to cover the f/b helm is an absolute must, to protect it from sun and rain, and a straight lip extended over the whole dashboard could in turn be used as a support for the canvas cover.
With apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs...

First of all, no need to apologise, I can always learn or get a different perspective out of what's in my mind and that's a v.good thing!
Was in the plans MM, especially an easy to use cover that wont have all these horrible buttons/clips visible all around.
One issue I have to address carefully and which caused most of the damage up there was carefully designing the waterways from the existing shelf down.
Now, the boxy thing in the middle unfortunatelly will mean that I need 4 holes in the main shelf: two on each side at the respective ends. Only not exactly at the ends as I'll have to fit pipes routing the water down (especially at the holes in proximity to the central box) Will investigate over the next few days with the rain pouring down and drill them now. Planning on using 10mm holes so that I can seal them with epoxy properly and later on paint without blocking the actual waterway. May have to go for larger holes though
I wonder if there are readymade hollow sections that I can "bolt" into a hole and connect a 12mm or something hose at the lower end under the shelf...


Alf, thanks for the photos, was wondering how yours dealt with the bow roller and central stanchion for the railing, but what they've done is add another two stanchions (not possible in my case) so I have to do it the original way (after repairing and welding the existing broken stanchion..

Managed to do a couple of hours work today, sanded and epoxied the new fully built shelf, looks good but will need another filling session and another coat before I'll put colour to it. Being a cheapskate you can moreorless figure the final shape by the bits I covered with epoxy :

Now, three issues to report:

A. f/b stanchion bases, nice slanted alloy bits (I recon lathed from solid billet) with a through hole and an M6 screw BENT and ending in a 20odd mm dia woodscrew that was plugged in the f/b deck. Needless to say that ALL 8 bases had worked loose, rain water seeped in, rotted the deck and part of the underlying block of timber-typical...

Now, first of all, I find the detailing plain silly wouldn't believe it at the beginning but seems that it is factory original. Makes for the first foul I can identify from dear Versilcraft.
Since I've removed all linings underneath, plan is to mark and drill 8mm holes (hole on the alloy bit is actually 8.something mm!) and get SS bolts through the whole deck and prepare the wooden block underneath with a proper rightangle to the bolt surface (so slanted around 20degrees) and screw them tightly down. Stanchions are push-in and secured with the allen 4M ss headless bolt (I bet you have a better name for this description but you get the point...)

B. my mechanical engine controls are by Kobalt (Canada) got to their webpage was impressed the model is there with all details (2091-2093) and their marketing blurb trying to persuade us that it's the best manual control ever made... Removed the one to test fit it on of the following days and realised that the cables from the f/b to the lower helm are around half a metre too long and have been placed in a v. convoluted way that wont work now with the minimal under helm box. That's a job that I can do even when raining so should report on that soon. I wonder if I can get cables locally or if it is possible to shorten the existing ones, we shall see.

C. the custom temp foam seal for the two saloon windows don't work too well, and there's water seeping in at the bottom
So had a go at a few shops around Volos trying to find a matching rubber section to replace the original hard/burnt out one. Tested two of them would be v.happy if the second one worked as the first one is too "busy" with two folds and does look cr4p. However although technically BOTH will seal the ss frame allright, none is good enough. So I'm contacting a company in Athens that has a good number of different sections trying to find a better match.

tomorrow I'm ordering the 8X14m 190gr/m2 cover (that's 112m2 and 21kilos of white plastic...) so by wed MiToS should be all covered (aft deck excluded!)

hm, typed too much, back to real work

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

hm, this time I was quick

another update regarding f/b helm.
Took me 3 h to measure, cut holes, disassembe and reassemble the levers in place. Now all look nice and tidy!

cut, note the fit of the 4X6mm plys to the original slanted shelf:

Both engine controls on, test fitting the steering:

Mock up of an old idea, trying to follow the curve of the dark/black slanted section on top of the lower helm roof and getting this slope all the way to the steering. Good idea, even looks okayish from above:

but awful from low down... Was thinking of sticking the gauges/indicators for the engines in here, no way!

Then I cut a few more pieces I found lying around to test the other idea/sketch I've posted last week but with the two sides slanted both in plan and section. This creates a rather large shelf for the compass and even more space in front:

This slope will be halfway between the dark/black section mentioned before and the shelf where the engine controls lie. So will be sloping towards the bow. If it's not raining tomorrow (I doubt it!) I'll do a proper mock and prepare and bolt the 30X30mm supports for it. Will also have to connect the steering so that I can replace the steering pump at the lazarette and see how many turns I'll get with the old pump.

BTW, managed to sort out the cables for the engine controls, the stbrd engine ones were too long and ended up making a 360 smooth turn before exiting, but looks and feels good:

V.

 

[jfm]

Fab stuff. I can't load all the pics so will check back later

Lots of drains available Vas, eg these

Headless bolts = "grub screws"

 

[vas]

thanks jfm,

these drain bits are all a bit too large for my liking the size of the shelf, we shall see.

P155ing down the last two days, so doing some real work instead...
Tried another rubber seal local co, looking for new seals for the windows/windscreen to no avail. However he said that for around 200euro I could have a mold for the exact section I want and get a company (in Athens though) to do the 50odd metres I want. A long shot in case someone knows/works/whatever this is the section I want (size in mm and approx could accomodate a 10% - and up to 20% + on these:

it's a quick draft, will modify it slightly before going for the mold unless I get something that fits. Maybe Mystere group buy in order if Pete and MM want to replace molded seals


cheers

V.

 

[vas]

a few pics of the f/b helm.
It's temp, made of scrap ply, if I decide on it, I'll use the pieces as templates and cut it in new 12mm ply. Good thing with all this rebuilt is that I've got loads of scrap ply that I can make mocks with...

Quite happy tbh, but not over the moon.
I mean, it's reasonably minimal, there's place for the one gauge and 4 warning lights on each side, just level to the engine lever. I may even be able to squeeze the start/stop push buttons there as well.
Compass is also well placed up there, no problems.

HOWEVER, I'm not at all convinced I want to now have the Garmin520 on the stbrd side of the slanted panel...
Also I need a reasonable way of mounting:

• the tab controls (two toggles atm!)
• the windlass and
• the 3pushbuttons and 2 leds for the a/p engage/dissengage and turn

the vhf will be a handset thing so will probably be secured under the shelf on port side.

I was also toying with the idea of going towards this shape bringing the compass towards the wheel and giving a bit more extra space on the slanted panel for switches and stuff (although they are far away and not in immediate reach...)

On the sketch it really resembles a coffin so not too keen

Was also thinking of squeezing the windlass and a/p controls on the small trapezium shaped piece (that's currently missing in the photos...) behind the wheel.
Don't think it will be easy to accidentally hit any one, but will test again with the wheel in place.

Any ideas/comments?

cheers

V.

 

[Divemaster1]

Vas,

you have locked yourself down by placing gearleavers already ... consider both leavers on one side... or, can steering pump be on an angle ??

We have four levers on far Stb, angled panes for full instrumentation and switches etc. towards wheel... on eighter side ... but you could even consider all controls on one side and navigation on other .... Plotter is there for reference when underway (but do not replace your eyes) , and when anchoring echo sounder is more of value ...

 

[vas]

Alf, my levers are rather hard, so using both hands in a balanced way is imho the only reasonable way of moving them. Got used to it, no problems there.
Steering is slanted around 15deg from the already slanted shelf so comes up to a reasonable height.

Today fitted the steering in order to bleed (with little success...) the system and came up with an idea on the ledge over the gauges/ind.bulbs that I really liked!
So seems I'm settling for this:

the ledges come out on the centre of the compass hole vertical to the slanted oposite edge, makes for a smooth detail (to my eyes...) that will also enable me to have a small 10-15mm ledge over the sides of this pod and thus make this cover removable without compromising the space inside with rain water leaking in.
Obviously I'm going to get this ledge to end where the lower shelf makes the turn astern and it should look v.good once done.
Even considering using two 6mm ply sheets for this cover and curving it ever so slightly to follow the top of the slanted piece of ply and make sure no water stays up there

Overally v.happy today!


V.

 

[rbcoomer]

Hi Vas,

I have to say that I was thinking along the same lines as Alf on the throttles. Whilst I like the symmetry of one each side, just how practical is that as it means you'd need both hands on the throttles when maneuvering? Often, one would probably suffice, keeping one free for other tasks (Holding your beer etc )

Perhaps throttles to s'bd and Garmin to port in a sloping 'pod' on the basis that when maneuvering, you're probably close quarters and not in need of the nav etc?

I do like the steering box much 'as is', not so sure about introducing too many angles/shapes by tapering off at the back... Sorry!

Very impressed with the progress however - it's coming together very well and your maiden voyage will be before I get even my floor in at this rate!

Regards,

Robin

 

[rbcoomer]

Ah, understand the throttle reasoning a little better now - posts obviously crossed over!

Yes, I like that better too... Have you decided on position for the Garmin then?

 

[Mr Googler]

Hi vas. Hope you don't mind me chipping in. This is a dash from a 80's chapperal villain IV. When I saw your steering column it reminded me of this dash. I think it looks quite well and the lower panels either side are angled up for gauges etc...

This is not a great picture but there are more online. Just a thought

 

[vas]

f/b helm TAKE 3

thanks Farsco for the photo, didn't know of it... Looks v.interesting!

I wasn't extremely happy with the last version of the f/b helm, so over the w/e I was sketching a possible v3.
Today I spend a couple of hours in the morning and with a few more scrap pieces of ply I knocked this version up. It's basically identical to v.2 but the central pod sort of thing is 30mm wider on the steering wheel end and 10mm higher. And, it has a cover tha once removed and stored under the cabinet it reveals the GPS, A/P controls and possibly windlass, horn, navlights buttons. Other than some constructional issues I have and hopefully solve, I'm happier with this.

chopping and testing using the old pieces:

cutting the new topcover:

the v3 Stealth version now looks like that (the bit of ply coming up to the top by the wheel will be trimmed flush with the side panels:

and testing visibility whilst sitting:

and standing:

Yes I know that I need to lean to access it, but having played with the interface I'm not particularly keen on adding waypoints on this, so most of the work will be done in the PC and I'll be transfering waypoints and routes via SD, so not too bothered.

Considering a lock in the cover so that I can "safely" leave the garmin there. Further by removing the garmin I get access to the internals and through them to the wiring for the indicators/rev.counter for the engines.

V.

 

[rbcoomer]

Hi Vas,

That looks quite practical and probably optimal location for the plotter. Out of interest, will the panel above the steering hinge up or slide out? You will need to do one or the other to check the reservoir I guess?

Am I right in thinking you don't want to go any higher? You seem to be trying to lower the chartplotter rather than raise the compass - probably for good reason... Isn't any water (rain spray etc) going to want to collect in the dip against the plotter?

Regards,

Robin

 

[vas]

Hi Vas,

That looks quite practical and probably optimal location for the plotter. Out of interest, will the panel above the steering hinge up or slide out? You will need to do one or the other to check the reservoir I guess?

yes and yes
not sure if it's going to be sliding or hinge or what. Will decide once I get all the details and exact measurements. May just have two concealed screws at the bottom holding this panel

Am I right in thinking you don't want to go any higher? You seem to be trying to lower the chartplotter rather than raise the compass - probably for good reason... Isn't any water (rain spray etc) going to want to collect in the dip against the plotter?

Regards,

Robin

yep, right again
I'm reaching the top of the whole thing, the angle to the eye when seated cannot go any further imo...
There's going to be a 300mm approx high windscreen and that should be enough. I only managed to get some spray there on a F6-7ish N on the delivery trip and even that wasn't much. Rain, what rain?
Serious, I'll need to get the cover to seal properly with the sides and compass base. I'll probably use thin rubber strip from car windscreens or something like that in a routed groove so that when the cover is in place you wont be able to see the rubber and there wont be a chance of water coming in.
Of course there's going to be drain or two taking an water down to the f/b floor. I need a lot of time to think and get the details right on this lot.
As long as I decide on the overall shape and size and fix the unmoveable bits, I'll be okay for painting and sealing.

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Vas, does your Garmin have a built-in aerial? If yes, will your installation impact on the signal? On mine, it works through the glass screen.

 

[jfm]

V3.0 gets my vote. I like the garmin set down in the Vee slot very much.

 

[vas]

Vas, does your Garmin have a built-in aerial? If yes, will your installation impact on the signal? On mine, it works through the glass screen.

yes built-in aerial.
Installation (when in use that is) should be absolutely fine as there's only the sky on top of it, err and a bit of plastimo compass slightly ahead. Nah, should be fine, I've been testing the garmin in the car and even under the metal roof it's absolutely fine as is my smartphones gps...

V3.0 gets my vote. I like the garmin set down in the Vee slot very much.

thanks v.much jfm, I really appreciate your opinion


now, tried and setup properly the 20x20mm pieces that placehold the whole pod.
Quite happy as it develops, garmin sits in a slope exactly the same as the one the gauges will be secured just 110mm in front.
As robin noticed, I'm trying v.hard to keep the whole construction low.
v.3 was slightly higher (around 20mm) trying to sort out the vee slot part over the steering pump and copper pipes. Since it doesnt quite cut it and I'll need a flat part towards the steering (god it's hard describing a few pics help much more...) I'll lower v3.1 (which is going to be the final hopefully) as much down as it can so that the steering wheel axle is going to be more central to the panel. Note how inbalanced the setup is currently (clear in the third pic...)

At one point today I thought of discarding the bow part of the pod, keeping only the part covering the steering pump and sticking the compass on top of it, putting everything else on the slanted panel where the gauges will go, but decided that ergonomically it would be carp and designwise not that interesting either, so scrapped v.4 immediatelly. Just to get an idea, that's the actual stuff inside the pod:

Cut two holes in the slanted panel and routed the stbrd engine control connector in place convenient for connection and testing. That was a straightforward job EXCEPT that the idiots who setup the wiring used a 14wire thing where ALL the bleeding wires were BLACK ffs. Since the connector is too bulky and I didn't want to drill a massive hole in there, I had to disconnect the 10cables one by one (the 4 were not used go figure...) go up the f/b reconnect, then down again for the next one, etc (as you can imagine I was working alone again!)

Anyway, setup looks good, to an extend sorted (in my mind) the way the movable bits are going to work, how I'm going to waterproof the whole pod etc.
Finished the day with another coat of penetrating epoxy to the whole dash/shelf area and tomorrow I'm cutting the fix bits of ply for the pod, glueing/bolting them down and epoxy coating them.
A few showers expected on Thu then another 5 days of 12-18C and bits of sun, so will have a go at replacing the aft deck before the winter sets in and the aft deck is impossible to work on (facing N and that's the direction of the seriously cold winds bringing low temps from the snowclad Pelion...)

cheers

V.

 

[Divemaster1]

Vas,

Now it starts to look neat .... consider dropping the side panels between the two elements ... so you have a open V shape between the steering pump and the Garmin ... keep the compass above the plotter... open V shape between the two elements will make water drainage a non-issue..

 

[jfm]

Vas
I know it's hard sitting where you're sitting having to filter all the advice, and easy here to chuck in armchair suggestions, so feel free to ignore this one - it's each to their own. But I just wonder about your overall fly dash philosophy. Do you have an iso sketch of the whole thing that you can post, showing especially the seats?

I reckon you need a helmsman's chair and a navigators chair, else it is lonely being the boat owner. You need somewhere for the kids to sit next to you in nice weather, and in carp weather you want to read the screens while someone else looks out for trouble and holds the helm.

Just my personal philosophy of course, but this is why I've always gone to such trouble with my dashboards - both the below follow this thinking - I sit in front of the screens at night/fog/trouble and run the screens, and a less able crew person/child can operate the helm. The other side effect is that this approach makes it easy to bring the screens close to the operator, no leaning forward, which is handy when you are working the screens a lot

So, sorry to rabbit on and not wishing to rain on any parade, but before you go final on this design are you sure you don't want to stretch it out sideways and have 2 chairs, and side-positioned screens?