MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

[MattM]

Vas,

A fantastic thread, thank you for sharing with us.

As the scope of your project is so complex, i wondered whether there is any sort of legal requirement to have the work inspected and certified? In the UK domestic electrical work (in some cases) requires certification as does structural building work - is there a similar requirement for pleasure boats?

 

[petem]

That's one hell of a labour of love. Respect to you Vas. Keep up the good work!

 

[rafiki_]

Vas,

A fantastic thread, thank you for sharing with us.

As the scope of your project is so complex, i wondered whether there is any sort of legal requirement to have the work inspected and certified? In the UK domestic electrical work (in some cases) requires certification as does structural building work - is there a similar requirement for pleasure boats?

Good point, but not required in the UK, and don't know about Greece. Boats, once in service, are only inspected to the Boat Safety Scheme for the inland waterways, not coastal. While I'd salute Vas for bringing his boat to the R Severn, I feel it unlikely. The inspection would cover the visible harnesses/fuel system/gas system.

 

[wakeup]

Yup, teak. 6mm is fine; you don't need 8. Or synthetic teak as in Ellesar's current thread. Then make the seat base boxes in ply or GRP

+1 for teak, she'll look a classy classic .

 

[MapisM]

in a fully wooden boat ?
I apreciate and accept the quality of modern synthetic teak, but I wouldn't in this case

At risk of appearing sacrilegious, I'm not so sure, B.
I perfectly see what you mean with regard to the teak "feeling" of course, but since the biggest enemy of wooden boats is the rain water, I must admit that when time will come to rebuild my boat deck (and it's just a matter of "when", not of "if"), I will give non-teak materials a serious thought.
And I'm talking of "non-teak" rather than "synthetic", because cork would definitely be one of the alternatives I would consider more carefully.

 

[BartW]

At risk of appearing sacrilegious, I'm not so sure, B.
I perfectly see what you mean with regard to the teak "feeling" of course, but since the biggest enemy of wooden boats is the rain water, I must admit that when time will come to rebuild my boat deck (and it's just a matter of "when", not of "if"), I will give non-teak materials a serious thought.
And I'm talking of "non-teak" rather than "synthetic", because cork would definitely be one of the alternatives I would consider more carefully.

No experience with cork myself, but indeed this is a natural product that could be allowed on a wooden boat
are you sure that this is more water proof then teak ?

we both have a better solution imho, and that is a cover over the boat (at least over the FB)
coincidently I have placed my custom made cover on BA last sunday.
will post pics when I find some time, also from a few other maintenance works we did last week.

 

[MapisM]

will post pics when I find some time, also from a few other maintenance works we did last week.

Please do, I for one am interested to have a look!
Re. cork vs. teak, have you ever seen teak used to seal a bottle of champagne...?
That aside, another important advantage of cork is that it can be laid in large panels, with just a very few junctions.
You must compromise on aesthetic, though.
As I mentioned in the thread on this specific subject, it looks even more "fake" than some fully synthetic stuff.

 

[BartW]

Re. cork vs. teak, have you ever seen teak used to seal a bottle of champagne...?

but a good bottle of wine has to "breath" iirc

That aside, another important advantage of cork is that it can be laid in large panels, with just a very few junctions.
You must compromise on aesthetic, though.
As I mentioned in the thread on this specific subject, it looks even more "fake" than some fully synthetic stuff.

yes and therefor I wouldn't want it,
If you have a wooden boat, you have to accept that there is much more maintenance work then with plastic,
At least that is how i see it after owning a 50% wooden boat for two seasons,
might change my mind in a few years though

 

[MapisM]

might change my mind in a few years though

LOL, you bet!
Been there, done that, and got the tee shirt...

 

[vas]

thanks for the comments guys,

MattM, as rafiki says no need for anything fancy. Craft is tested every two years once at sea, once out. That's typical practice down here for the necessary certificates. BTW, it's not coded or anything, just plain private vessel.
What they want to see is all the safety equipment, fire extinguishers, check the hull around, ruders, anchor/backup, etc. That will obviously be covered. Noone will ever bother to check the pipework for the hob, or has a plan of the existing layout or other such things. TBH, hadn't had the pleasure to have the inspectors around yet, will do in spring, so I can report then.
Also consider that I'm not altering structurally the craft, only removed a non loadbearing bulkhead between the two bathrooms on strbrd and will be adding two to create the two bathrooms on the port side...

Re teak vs cork vs faketeak, I'd go with Bart and wont consider the faketeak (although it would be less hurting on my back to do it )
As I've said before, many ppl here recommend cork for lightness, ease and cool surface to walk under the sun. However as MM points, it looks awfully fake and tbh the caulking is pointless on a reprosessed/cast/whatever material. There's no grain, no form that makes sense to preserve... So looks like it's going to be 6mm teak.
Regarding Bart's suggestion to lay teak everywhere and fit the furniture on top, I do have a slight problem that although structurally the f/b deck is sound, all beams are solid, no rot whatsoever, there is an amount of flexing as you walk on the f/b. Also with the awful helm seating I've removed I realised that the curvature of the deck has been altered on the area of the seating (it's flatter now and becomes more curved as you move towards the stern -where the saloon sliding doors are). So I was thinking of fitting a couple of "leaders" if you wish athwartship with the right curvature (traced from 1m aft) and hence "helping" the deck take the right curvature again. I'll bolt the ply seating construction on these two beams.
Not sure we shall see. For sure if I go for full length teak, I'll need to glue and bolt it down else it will be a mess...

Anyway, today was a very destructively productive (or productively destructive ) day. Sun was shining (excessively I may add for Nov...) temp was 27C and was quite windy that's keeping you cool but can lead to a nice sunstroke or sunburn.

Took me four hours to remove all f/b helm and a couple of hours sanding/preparing/sealing/sorting out cabling.

Started like this:

Checked and documented the colour coding for all the wiring:

Easy to remove the panels:

as well as the old Detroit dash:

Measured and cut the part of the original helm "pod" that I'm going to reuse. At this point it did look very messy...

And later on, cleared, sanded and halfway through epoxy sealing:

George worked on the aft of the f/b deck sorting a couple of patches but soon decided to remove a 150mm strip of ply from port to stbrd and reconstruct the whole lip and ending of the f/b deck. Was too messy with a couple of nasty patches (one was glued with polyurethene foam!!!)

The U shaped (in plan) panel that will be reused will be trimmed and measured and will be test fitted on Thursday (rain predicted for tomorrow but tbh couldn't see a single cloud so I'm not so sure about it)
This shape will help formulate the extension to the original bit of slanted ply coming out towards the helm seating.
Following pic shows original design for the f/b helm, have a dozen new sketches but no time to scan and upload atm

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

update,

fb reconstruction in progress, cut and test fitted the new underdash drawer thing, didn't like it as it was too large, sliced another 80mm out of it bringing it further forward and sliced 140mm on it's width making it really nice and tiny The idea is that I can bring the helm bench/seating further forward and be able to helm for a bit standing with no issues.

no comments on the test seating arrangement plz

Next pic is with the further reduced in size drawer. Have a feeling it's going to be a pig to get the two engine controls on it and manage to bend the cabling properly, will know for sure tomorrow:

The following is today with test fitting the extension to the helm "shelf" as the the design on the pic after:

Now, next one is what I'm finally planning to go for, an uber sleek and minimal design with the dial, indicators and start stop buttons all mounted straight on the slanted panel. This leeds to a central boxy thing to cover the steering pump and further forward house the compass. All bits above the "shelf" will be painted black
Garmin 520 will be placed on the same slanted panel to the stbrd side of the dash
The "cover" of the steering pump will create a nice ledge over the dials shading them during the day but most likely making them invisible when helming standing (which I'll probably never do unless on v.dodgy conditions when I wont bother with the rev meter tbh).

Biggest challenge is to fit all bits straight on the curved ply without butchering the lower part to gain access. Need to draw a section to get the idea but currently there's no access to the "inside" of the slanted panel where the dials would go. Probably drill a decent sized hole in the middle where the compass box will cover it and get my hand through there for final pluggin and setting. We shall see...

Another issue to report on is colours...

Had a go at testing the final coat of epoxy with special epoxy pigments so that
A. blemishes show up
B. see how she'll look on the colour scheme I'm thinking and I'm not bothered to do on pshop

Turns out that you need 50% of the volume of epoxy for the pigment to cover the wood colour/grain and the following pics are just two tests. Lower helm roof was too little pigment to register (just shown on the side and around the end where I did two coats). Sunpad was ok but not too different to the helm roof, so need to do a not so slightly darker version for the sunpad to get the right contrast. For the record, the further slanted part above the helm roof leading to the f/b helmstation will be a v.dark shade almost black as will be the helm window surroundings (that was an original feature btw):

More on both colouring and f/b helm layout tomorrow eve (was so knackered during the week that yesterday I clocked a full 12h sleep and I'm now feeling OK )

cheers

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Vas, I like your sketch, and this should look quite neat when complete. Also like your sprocket and chain. Is this for the dumb waiter

 

[rbcoomer]

Vas, I like your sketch, and this should look quite neat when complete. Also like your sprocket and chain. Is this for the dumb waiter

+1 I also think the layout looks good - I like the uber-sleek concept, but was the a bit confused by:

The "cover" of the steering pump will create a nice ledge over the dials shading them during the day but most likely making them invisible when helming standing (which I'll probably never do unless on v.dodgy conditions when I wont bother with the rev meter tbh).

Are you saying there will be a 'shelf' over the minimalist steering box, and if so, won't this obstruct the Garmin too when standing? Or are you referring to the earlier drawing with dials on the 'pod' behind the helm? (I'm taking it that the shelf only applied to the larger pod with dials therein)

I have to say that with the coloured finish, it seems to be turning a corner and once that finish is applied she'll start to look the part once more!

 

[vas]

okay, maybe it wasn't clear enough, the following pic shows the layout as I'm currently considering. The central boxy thing covers the steering wheel pump and goes towards the dash extending to cover the engine gauges, indicators and start/stop buttons:

In the meantime, 4X6mm plys were layered to take the proper curvature and cover the new minimal underdash drawer thingy. First clamped together:

and how it looks now:

I'll try and clear up the trim inside the lower helm making space to re-route the engine cables to the f/b helm and find a way of fitting them. I have a feeling that I'll have to chop a bit of this panel to get the cable to work
George decided that the finish on the rest of this "shelf" was bad (it really is rather tired...) and he stripped a 6mm ply down to 2mm so that he's going to glue it on top of the old ply and make a decent finish.
Spent over an hour sanding this bit of the dash both the shelf and the slanted dash but still not happy...

In the meantime I did a few more colour tests.
Initial plan was to have two tones of grey and a black. Light grey on the sides and lower helm roof, darker grey on the sundeck and sides of it up to the engine vents and blackish on the helm windows surrounds and the top protrusion forming the upper helm.
Now, did a slight cockup and ended up with two very similar greys
Anyway, ended up on two coats == decent coverage on lower helm roof that was meant to be the light being rather dark.
So today tried a much lighter grey for the sundeck.
No photos as it took me ages to do the final sanding of the deck, proper cleaning it and painted and turned quite dark by the time I finished...
The following is a pic from yesterday showing the light grey and a square patch of the darker grey. Being all rather glossy the lower helm roof's darker grey and the upper helm almost black are indestinguishabe. You can also see the black on a test on the stbrd side of the windscreen frame:

I wonder what ppl think of non gloss finish on a boat. They look v.nice on fixed cabinets at home, but I guess salty water and all sorts of deposits will be a pain to keep reasonably clean!
Anyone?

Unfortunately (or fortunately) winter is here, turned on CH today, rain is forecasted for the following 5-6days so I'm happy to having reach the point of more or less sealing the superstructure. However temps were up to 22 today, go figure...
Tomorrow morning George and I should finish the upper helm shelf and epoxy it before the rain comes (easy to cover it as well)

My main concern is to manage to get hold of a large enough cover for the f/b covering from the lower helm roof all the way aft to the davits so that I can work and replace the aft deck without being wet and freezing as the aft deck is looking at the sea and open to N and NW winds (ie the cold stuff down here...).

Following and when some decent and dry days come, i'll continue with filler, sanding and preparing the exterior bits. Plan is to do 80% of the preparation and only need a couple of weeks for final sanding/priming (if necessary) and two pack polyurethene paint.

Knackered, probably an update tomorrow eve

cheers

V.

 

[rbcoomer]

okay, maybe it wasn't clear enough, the following pic shows the layout as I'm currently considering. The central boxy thing covers the steering wheel pump and goes towards the dash extending to cover the engine gauges, indicators and start/stop buttons:

Hi Vas,

Ah yes, understand what you mean now! Not sure on the end result however and think I prefer without the 'shelf'! Although it doesn't extend far enough to obstruct the Garmin, to me it seems neither one thing or the other... I do prefer the dials etc on the slope however and can see that being more practical. What was the objective of the shelf?

I do like the contrasting greys and from the picture it appears almost silver/black. I think I prefer the lighter grey on the bow section, but can see the issue getting enough pigment to cover - I guess more coats or a mix of grey/white pigment perhaps to increase opacity?

Very much looking forward to the next update/fix as not much happening with mine (sorting car for MoT currently between work & work)

Keep up the good work - it's an inspiration.

Best regards,

Robin

 

[rafiki_]

Vas, I'm not convinced about a non gloss finish. I love to see Rafiki polished up and shining. How would a on gloss finish look after a could of years.

 

[vas]

Robin, I'm not either sure it's going to look good with this ledge thing. certainly the sketch doesn't do justice but working with ply/wood means you can easily test/mod/scrap all without much trouble and no stinking glassfibre...
I'm toying with the idea of slightly slanted sides to the this boxy cover to the steering pump but too busy with real work to bother modeling it in acad, so will do on the spot once the weather is kind to me (raining for the last couple of days)

rafiki, not at all sure the brilliant or silk or whatever this finish is called is going to work. It does reduce the amount of work that has to be done to get the sundeck smooth though the more shiny the paint the more work filling and sanding

Took a couple of pics today after all the rain washed down all the woodchips and dust. Does look like the sundeck should be lighter even (this is a 10% black compared to a 32% black for the lower helm roof and a 60% black for the upper helm strip)

going to be quiet for a few days as I finish some uni work and wait for the weather.

A good thing is that I managed to trace a reasonable rubber seal for the ss window frames at around 4euro/m that hopefully will look good (it's black at least!) and last another dozen years or so


l8r

V.

 

[wakeup]

How about a nice section of tinted Perspex instead of the ply shelf? Would provide the shade needed but also allow you to see the dials from an oblique angle.

 

[pete1987]

Robin, I'm not either sure it's going to look good with this ledge thing. certainly the sketch doesn't do justice but working with ply/wood means you can easily test/mod/scrap all without much trouble and no stinking glassfibre...
I'm toying with the idea of slightly slanted sides to the this boxy cover to the steering pump but too busy with real work to bother modeling it in acad, so will do on the spot once the weather is kind to me (raining for the last couple of days)

rafiki, not at all sure the brilliant or silk or whatever this finish is called is going to work. It does reduce the amount of work that has to be done to get the sundeck smooth though the more shiny the paint the more work filling and sanding

Took a couple of pics today after all the rain washed down all the woodchips and dust. Does look like the sundeck should be lighter even (this is a 10% black compared to a 32% black for the lower helm roof and a 60% black for the upper helm strip)

going to be quiet for a few days as I finish some uni work and wait for the weather.

A good thing is that I managed to trace a reasonable rubber seal for the ss window frames at around 4euro/m that hopefully will look good (it's black at least!) and last another dozen years or so


l8r

V.

Vas,

I think the colours look great. Certainly a satin rather than full gloss finish wouldn't show as many imperfections. As with satin and Matt finishes on cars, either painted or wrapped you can't polish them, just needs a wash off.
You've been quite bold with the colours, I love the look of it and hope u decide on a matt/satin finish. The boat is a really striking design (I'm biased obviously) and think a clean, satin finish will really compliment the decks and alloy hardware. Some purists will scowl of course but I think it's gonna look stunning and can't wait to see the end result.

My boat is obviously the sister ship of yours so its really good to see what can be done with a bit of flare and bravery!

 

[jfm]

Looking great Vas. I think a lighter grey will work better on the sundeck. 5% black or something. But you have already figured that one out, from your post.

Fantastic stuff anyway. Much credit to you

I'm not convinced about the shelf over the tachos either, but that's a small point