Marine VHF procedure - why ?

[andsarkit]

Once upon a time, before digital, analogue kit could need time to work. So if you spoke the moment you keyed the PTT, the set might not transmit the first few seconds. So 'This is' is a good way of ensuring that the receiver will hear the name, hopefully clearly and distinctly. Also if you hear 'This is' there is clarity about who is transmitting whenthere is a broken transmission. Also with analogue sets if the power was dodgy, messages would break quite easily. I guess digital sets either have enough power or not rather than trying to struggle. So the procedures are all designed to work in a 'worst case situation'.

This was certainly the reason given during my time in the Royal Signals in late 60s/early 70s. We were still using some valve transmitters and the first part of a transmission would often be lost as there was a delay after pressing the transmit button. In poor reception conditions if you knew who was transmitting then you could ask for a repetition if the message was not clear. Marine voice procedure derived from the military but with modern radios it seems an unnecessary complication.

 

[pvb]

This was certainly the reason given during my time in the Royal Signals in late 60s/early 70s. We were still using some valve transmitters and the first part of a transmission would often be lost as there was a delay after pressing the transmit button. In poor reception conditions if you knew who was transmitting then you could ask for a repetition if the message was not clear. Marine voice procedure derived from the military but with modern radios it seems an unnecessary complication.

I don't understand. The "this is" bit comes in the middle of the transmission, so how could it be lost in the first part?

 

[Zing]

Coming to sailing after decades in aviation I find radio procedures ridiculously verbose. Boaters should cut out the repetition and babble.

 

[Alfie168]

What I find fascinating are the people (often ladies, who probably get lumbered with working the radio) who laboriously go through the procedure, even though it's obvious that whoever they're calling knows who they are.

Wonderful Marina, Wonderful Marina, Wonderful Marina, this is Yacht Cut-Glass Accent, Yacht Cut-Glass Accent, Yacht Cut-Glass Accent, we'd like a berth for one night please, over.

Cut-Glass Accent, Wonderful, what is your length and beam, over.

I thought she might have replied "How dare you, how dare you, how dare you!" to that one....

 

[Capt Popeye]

Yes busy environments eh; when on the River i recall we were taught to call - MP MP MP Thames >> Thames >> Thames >>, so no 'this is' etc, thats what got me to ask in the post as I find it strange and time wasting or confusing; but if the Matitime Regs state that we should there is no question about it; I do wonder if the RNLI and Coastguard use the 'this is' though ?

note the use of >> >> >> is where the Patrol Boat identification came in

And yes the Met Police communication systems were busy

The MET used to ask the caller to use a certain channel to give their message, so leaving the main incomming channel open for others to call in on ; which seemed to work very well ; if the Met wanted to it would invite /ask others to use that same channel ; thus the central Met could engage in say a pursuit , robbery , other emergency whilst leaving the main call in channel open for any others to join in or engage in response to emergency;

Might mention, that I suppose the Police, Armed Services, Coast Guard services do not encounter Craft with unpronounciple names which surely must be a bgr

 

[LadyInBed]

Prowords used to be important with HF comms, voice or morse, where the signal faded or there is interference. Radio procedure didn't change using VHF comms where you get through or don't, I think professional communicators still consider 'proceedure' important and amateurs don't.
Like andsarkit, I'm also ex Royal Signals from the late 60s/early 70s ?

 

[st599]

The DE thing seems to be a carry over from hamspeak on SSB

A hangover from Morse on CW.

GZW GZW GZW DE GECV GECV GECV

 

[Pump-Out]

A hangover from Morse on CW.

GZW GZW GZW DE GECV GECV GECV

One could also be relaying a message for a second ship that was, perhaps over the radio horizon:

To; Ship A
From; Ship B
DE; Ship C - (ie the ship in the middle)

 

[Skylark]

Deleted. Comment already covered by others.

 

[savageseadog]

Coming to sailing after decades in aviation I find radio procedures ridiculously verbose. Boaters should cut out the repetition and babble.

An aircraft is normally a much more controlled environment than a small boat and an aircraft's radio installation is much more likely to work properly. The "radio check" nonsense really needs to be taken in hand though.

 

[matt1]

Surely the use of “this is” signifies that it’s the same broadcast from the same station. Calling coastguard and then just stating “yacht indigo” could be confused with another station calling yacht indigo? Just takes any ambiguity away

 

[Zing]

An aircraft is normally a much more controlled environment than a small boat and an aircraft's radio installation is much more likely to work properly. The "radio check" nonsense really needs to be taken in hand though.

Most boats have two radios. A fixed and a handheld and a phone or two. Forget the radio check, there’s enough back up, or do an occasional marina check with your neighbour or marina office or to your own handheld. Radio checks on 16 shouldn’t be done IMHO. In aviation radio checks are always done, but on ground frequencies, where they don’t clutter the frequencies.

 

[newtothis]

The "radio check" nonsense really needs to be taken in hand though.

I always found it a useful aid to navigation. You knew you were in close proximity to the Isle of Wight when the radio picked up all the "Solent Coastguard, Solent Coastguard" radio checks.
I've not sailed there since the reorg so don't know if its still the same or if it is now all "Fareham Coastguard, Fareham Coastguard".

 

[Frank Holden]

The 'repeat three times' nonk is really only for distress working.

I would normally .. on a first call to a station not expecting to be roused from their slumber... repeat their name twice.... just to get their notice.
Followed by 'this is' - gives them a chance to get their pencil out - and my ship's name once.
Nada mas.

 

[capnsensible]

For posters who want to change established procedures, they could contact the International Telecomunications Union and make their views known. The next conference is in, I think, 2023 so that gives plenty of time to present a reasonable argument.

The International Telecommunication Union is a specialized agency of the United Nations responsible for all matters related to information and communication technologies.[1] It was established in 17 May 1865 as the International Telegraph Union, making it among the oldest international organizations still in operation.[2]

 

[capnsensible]

I always found it a useful aid to navigation. You knew you were in close proximity to the Isle of Wight when the radio picked up all the "Solent Coastguard, Solent Coastguard" radio checks.
I've not sailed there since the reorg so don't know if its still the same or if it is now all "Fareham Coastguard, Fareham Coastguard".

In a freaky radio moment, we got the Falmouth Coastguard weather report whilst off Galicia, N Spain.

 

[RobbieW]

In a freaky radio moment, we got the Falmouth Coastguard weather report whilst off Galicia, N Spain.

in other freaky moments, I've sat at anchor in Santa Ponca, Mallorca watching AIS traffic off the Algerian coast
edit: [actually not that freaky, just checked the distance ]

 

[laika]

I've not sailed there since the reorg so don't know if its still the same or if it is now all "Fareham Coastguard, Fareham Coastguard".

"UK Coastguard" although weirdly I don't seem to be able to find a reference to back that up and they still respond to "solent coastguard" (and presumably "portland coastguard" etc.). The MMSI for the Fareham MOC is different from the old solent coastguard one. I haven't called the coastguard since they moved to the new MOC but I wouldn't bet against the old mmsi still working (anyone tried it recently?).

 

[Capt Popeye]

The 'repeat three times' nonk is really only for distress working.

I would normally .. on a first call to a station not expecting to be roused from their slumber... repeat their name twice.... just to get their notice.
Followed by 'this is' - gives them a chance to get their pencil out - and my ship's name once.
Nada mas.

No t sure that the remark - roused from their slumber is fair or accurate

Afer all the Services are monitoring all transmissions all the time; suggest that what the Caller has to do is to CLEARLY IDENTIFY whom they called called, so no misunderstandings can arrise - hence Coast Guard, Coast Guard, Coast Guard, the Coast Guard may be conducting calls on other channels when your call comes in ; so they may need to decided whether to or how to react to your call ; likewise the CG will need reaction organisation time to take or note your Call Sign etc, so by repeating it 3 x times it all helps, as I am sure you would appreciate help, if calling in

After all we are not the only ones afloat are we !

 

[Gary Fox]

It makes sense to name a region when calling the CG, although we all know it is now a callcentre in Fareham.

I would call 'Dover Coastguard' if I was near Dover, so the callcentre knew I was there, and not off Beachy Head or Brightlingsea. Also, other vessels would know roughly where I was, and either prick up their ears, or ignore the call.
The suggestion that people should use the callsign 'UK Coastguard' is ludicrous.


Perhaps I will raise the matter at the next United Nations International Telecommunications Conference in 2023.