Marine VHF procedure - why ?

st599

Well-known member
Joined
9 Jan 2006
Messages
7,571
Visit site
For posters who want to change established procedures, they could contact the International Telecomunications Union and make their views known. The next conference is in, I think, 2023 so that gives plenty of time to present a reasonable argument.

Technically only a member organisation can send a contribution to the ITU, so you'd better start lobbying Ofcom.
 

laika

Well-known member
Joined
6 Apr 2011
Messages
8,209
Location
London / Gosport
Visit site
I would call 'Dover Coastguard' if I was near Dover, so the callcentre knew I was there, and not off Beachy Head or Brightlingsea. Also, other vessels would know roughly where I was, and either prick up their ears, or ignore the call.
The suggestion that people should use the callsign 'UK Coastguard' is ludicrous.

"Dover Coastguard" is still A Thing (ie didn't get closed with the opening of the NMOC). I suspect the coastguard can tell roughly where you are from the receiver they pick up your signal on. I did find something on the RYA site laying out the "new" (ie new 5 years ago) procedure for calling which confirms that they'd still respond to the old names:
The MCA has told us that boaters can still contact the Coastguard on VHF Channel 16, VHF/MF DSC and for that matter 999, but more importantly they will still respond whether you use the call sign of closed MRCC, one of the new Coastguard Operations Centres or simply 'UK Coastguard'.
Calling the Coastguard
 

TernVI

Well-known member
Joined
8 Jul 2020
Messages
5,070
Visit site
The 'repeat three times' nonk is really only for distress working.

I would normally .. on a first call to a station not expecting to be roused from their slumber... repeat their name twice.... just to get their notice.
Followed by 'this is' - gives them a chance to get their pencil out - and my ship's name once.
Nada mas.
I certainly wouldn't call a busy station like QHM by repeating stuff 3 times.
Brevity is much appreciated sometimes!
'This is' can remove ambiguity, so for the 1 second it takes, I'll stick to the habit of using it.

Some years ago, a newly VHF-qualified crew member decided to call QHM using our actual callsign, not the boat's name.
The response was something like 'Mike Bravo Tango...., is that the blue yacht over there?'
 

Sandy

Well-known member
Joined
31 Aug 2011
Messages
21,911
Location
On the Celtic Fringe
duckduckgo.com
Coming to sailing after decades in aviation I find radio procedures ridiculously verbose. Boaters should cut out the repetition and babble.
Why? The language is structured in order to give non-native speakers time to work out what is being said. Like aviation English is the working language of the sea. While as native speakers we are at a huge advantage, saying that I struggle understanding both Peterhead and Penzance fishermen, I want whoever I am calling on a dark and stormy night to understand me.
 

Gary Fox

N/A
Joined
31 Oct 2020
Messages
2,027
Visit site
I certainly wouldn't call a busy station like QHM by repeating stuff 3 times.
Brevity is much appreciated sometimes!
'This is' can remove ambiguity, so for the 1 second it takes, I'll stick to the habit of using it.

Some years ago, a newly VHF-qualified crew member decided to call QHM using our actual callsign, not the boat's name.
The response was something like 'Mike Bravo Tango...., is that the blue yacht over there?'
What 'ambiguity' could be removed by saying 'this is'?
 

Sandy

Well-known member
Joined
31 Aug 2011
Messages
21,911
Location
On the Celtic Fringe
duckduckgo.com
Some have used the word “OVER” this should not be used after each message
Over at the end of a sentence means I have finished talking and expect a reply. Out means I've finished speaking and don't expect a reply. If we did not use these key words a radio message would sound like an interview on the Today programme (BBC Radio 4) where the interviewer continually interrupts the interviewee.
 

Gary Fox

N/A
Joined
31 Oct 2020
Messages
2,027
Visit site
Coming to sailing after decades in aviation I find radio procedures ridiculously verbose. Boaters should cut out the repetition and babble.

Aviation proceedures have developed a frenetic style, where terse brevity is taken to ridiculous extremes, even when the message is simple and there is only one aircraft in the sky.
Presumably this allows Joe Bloggs in his hired Cessna to emulate the speech patterns of a fighter pilots in combat..
 

TernVI

Well-known member
Joined
8 Jul 2020
Messages
5,070
Visit site
What 'ambiguity' could be removed by saying 'this is'?
It means the next phrase is the identity of the calling station, not some random phrase.
If you are calling more than one station, e.g. 'safety two, race control , this is safety one' it's clear who's calling.
If a third party needs to follow the exchange it's clearer.


After the first exchange, do sometimes leave it out for brevity, e.g. QHM, Tern, copied that, out.
 

JumbleDuck

Well-known member
Joined
8 Aug 2013
Messages
24,167
Location
SW Scotland
Visit site
Over at the end of a sentence means I have finished talking and expect a reply. Out means I've finished speaking and don't expect a reply. If we did not use these key words a radio message would sound like an interview on the Today programme (BBC Radio 4) where the interviewer continually interrupts the interviewee.
Amongst people I have never heard use the word "over": RNLI lifeboats, the coastguard.
 

bitbaltic

Well-known member
Joined
21 Nov 2011
Messages
2,681
Location
Boat in Milford Haven
sailingkarisma.wordpress.com
This is

[hang on]

this is quite an interesting thread. I suspect that boaters on the S Coast mostly using radios for radio checks before sailing out and returning to their berth are sticklers for form.

In the Bristol Channel all marinas are locked so we do a lot of calling. I can’t recall any local boats in Milford Haven bothering with ‘this is’, and it would sound absurd for a land station to call us back with ‘this is’ (this is Pierhead, this is pierhead!!). As I’m probably going to follow up with ‘afternoon Dave…’ it would be terribly pretentious.

I might use ‘this is’ with the coastguard if I was in trouble, and they weren’t expecting my call. With the local marina it would be terribly pretentious.

delays. Good form is to listen for a gap in the traffic, press the PTT and take a breath before talking. Makes talking easy and helps clarity.

the word ‘yacht’. I always preface the boat name with Yacht. Again it helps the receiving station catch up with your speech, but in Cardiff Bay it was useful. Low air draft MOBOs could use the locks without barrage control needing to lift the bascule bridges, so it was essential to let them know you had air draft or they would call you back to check.
 

Gary Fox

N/A
Joined
31 Oct 2020
Messages
2,027
Visit site
It means the next phrase is the identity of the calling station, not some random phrase.
If you are calling more than one station, e.g. 'safety two, race control , this is safety one' it's clear who's calling.
If a third party needs to follow the exchange it's clearer.


After the first exchange, do sometimes leave it out for brevity, e.g. QHM, Tern, copied that, out.
I do the same, but using 'yacht' instead of 'this is'.
 

Gary Fox

N/A
Joined
31 Oct 2020
Messages
2,027
Visit site
Amongst people I have never heard use the word "over": RNLI lifeboats, the coastguard.
There's nothing wrong with 'over', and anyone can use it anytime. Why not? Foreigners all have their own versions as well.

'Your message received and understood, loud and clear, wilco, bandits at seven o'clock, over and out', is going a bit far.

Anyway, to sum it up: anyone whose radio proceedure is more correct than mine is an anally-retentive pedantic nerd; while anyone whose radio proceedure is less formal than mine is a recklessly dangerous ignoramus :D
 

Sandy

Well-known member
Joined
31 Aug 2011
Messages
21,911
Location
On the Celtic Fringe
duckduckgo.com
'Your message received and understood, loud and clear, wilco, bandits at seven o'clock, over and out', is going a bit far.
When I was in Mountain Rescue we had casualty codes, Blue 1 - 5 for hypothermia, Red 1 - 5 for trauma injuries. Black (only one level). All networks have jargon a quick code to get the job done.
 

Buck Turgidson

Well-known member
Joined
10 Apr 2012
Messages
3,464
Location
Zürich
Visit site
There's nothing wrong with 'over', and anyone can use it anytime. Why not? Foreigners all have their own versions as well.

'Your message received and understood, loud and clear, wilco, bandits at seven o'clock, over and out', is going a bit far.

Anyway, to sum it up: anyone whose radio proceedure is more correct than mine is an anally-retentive pedantic nerd; while anyone whose radio proceedure is less formal than mine is a recklessly dangerous ignoramus :D
During a long night flying in circles over some war zone or other in a tanker the captain and I were discussing how disciplined the forward air controllers coms had been all night. So we rewarded him with a " Roger, wilco, over and out" as we checked out off task. He cracked up.
 
Top