Marine VHF procedure - why ?

[Gary Fox]

There's an echo in here ;-) #31

To refute your contrived scenario: in real life, another vessel which called the same yacht which the CG was talking to would just use its name, Indigo in your example.

 

[matt1]

Not so "contrived" in the crowded Solent with lots of overtalking/overcalling going on, or even some static then when I hear "Solent Coastguard, Solent Coastguard" "Yacht Indigo" it's not as easily discernible that a station is calling Solent CG and a different station is calling yacht indigo. Adding "This is" just removes any ambiguity to my mind. It's only two words, I'm sure the brevity police won't mind ;-)

 

[bitbaltic]

Awful lot of people must be calling the CG in the Solent. Why is that?

 

[zoidberg]

I have two RT licenses, One Nautical and the other Aeronautical. "This is" only applies to one of them. Brevity is important in busy RT environments.

As in "Mayday59ejecting...."

 

[Dysan]

I operate out of a hugely commercial area and I’m afraid it does make you wonder what the point of the VHF ticket is, nobody really uses it. It’s more normal language, but so far I haven’t anyone crashing into each other, so all is well.

Certainly last time I was on the scene the pilots were still very much by the book.

 

[Gary Fox]

Last time I was in Newhaven (a commercial harbour with cross channel ferries etc) the HM finished every call with 'Love ya!' and the vessels answered the same phrase. I hope it catches on at other ports..

 

[zoidberg]

I always found it a useful aid to navigation. You knew you were in close proximity to the Isle of Wight when the radio picked up all the "Solent Coastguard, Solent Coastguard" radio checks.
I've not sailed there since the reorg so don't know if its still the same or if it is now all "Fareham Coastguard, Fareham Coastguard".

I'm wondering just how far from 'Solent Coastguard' (Fareham subsidiary ) one can get while still able to achieve a ponderous 'Radio Check'.....
Brixham?
Cherbourg?
Isles of Scilly...?

 

[Gary Fox]

I'm wondering just how far from 'Solent Coastguard' (Fareham subsidiary ) one can get while still able to achieve a ponderous 'Radio Check'.....
Brixham?
Cherbourg?
Isles of Scilly...?

I bet the habit accompanies the ARC to Antigua

 

[prv]

This was certainly the reason given during my time in the Royal Signals in late 60s/early 70s. We were still using some valve transmitters and the first part of a transmission would often be lost as there was a delay after pressing the transmit button.

For that reason I was taught to start initial calls with "Hello". As in, "hello golf four three this is hotel seven two" or whatever. If part of the "hello" gets cut off by the transmitter warming up, the listener's brain warming up, or slight miscoordination between pressel finger and mouth, then no actual information is lost.

Pete

 

[bitbaltic]

For that reason I was taught to start initial calls with "Hello". As in, "hello golf four three this is hotel seven two" or whatever. If part of the "hello" gets cut off by the transmitter warming up, the listener's brain warming up, or slight miscoordination between pressel finger and mouth, then no actual information is lost.

Pete

Easy to substitute the ‘hello’ with a moments considered pause to deliver a composed message rather than a ‘hello!’ That absolutely nobody is expecting though?

 

[Giblets]

It makes sense to name a region when calling the CG, although we all know it is now a callcentre in Fareham.

Not so. If NMOC at Fareham are busy your call could be taken by Falmouth, Aberdeen and a couple of others (whose locations escape me at the moment) and you would not know which one your are speaking to. They know which aerial you are being received on and therefore which area you are in.

 

[LadyInBed]

Some have used the word “OVER” this should not be used after each message

Not sure where you got that from!
Without any indication that a station has finished a transmission, how is the receiving station going to know that the transmission has ended?
The final transmission is ended is terminated with the proword Out.
------------
As for Hello and This is, they are prowords used on the initial transmission when establishing a communication.
In subsequent transmissions between two stations, just the station call signs (boat names) are used.

 

[Zing]

Aviation proceedures have developed a frenetic style, where terse brevity is taken to ridiculous extremes, even when the message is simple and there is only one aircraft in the sky.
Presumably this allows Joe Bloggs in his hired Cessna to emulate the speech patterns of a fighter pilots in combat..

It’s done out of necessity, not to play games. The voice frequencies are very limited in bandwidth, so needs to be used sparingly and is fast, with no repetition, no ‘over’ no ‘this is’ no ‘er, er...’ etc,etc.

 

[JumbleDuck]

There's nothing wrong with 'over', and anyone can use it anytime.

I know. All I meant was that lifeboats and theCG, for as long as I can recall, have been remarkably casual about VHF procedure.

 

[Sandy]

It’s done out of necessity, not to play games. The voice frequencies are very limited in bandwidth, so needs to be used sparingly and is fast, with no repetition, no ‘over’ no ‘this is’ no ‘er, er...’ etc,etc.

Yes but, they repeat their call sign at the end of the transmission. It is a safety feature and alerts everybody that they have finished speaking.

The other safety feature of their RT procedure is to repeat everything back to the air traffic controller. Which takes up airtime, as a retired Safety Engineer I think it is a fantastic feature but rather counteracts your point.

 

[Zing]

Yes but, they repeat their call sign at the end of the transmission. It is a safety feature and alerts everybody that they have finished speaking.

The other safety feature of their RT procedure is to repeat everything back to the air traffic controller. Which takes up airtime, as a retired Safety Engineer I think it is a fantastic feature but rather counteracts your point.

The call sign is not repeated, it is given by both sides and it is not to mimic the boating ‘over’. The end of transmission is known from the context and the squelch click, it is to communicate that the intended recipient has got the message, not a mistaken aircraft, or it is to identify the initial caller when dozens may be on frequency. Also it is usually given near the start, not at the end except for in readbacks.

Readbacks are not repetitions in the boating sense.. They are necessary, repetition is not and that was my point. This is repetition:

‘Falmouth Coastguard, Falmouth Coastguard, Falmouth Coastguard this is Yacht Zing, Yacht Zing, Yacht Zing“.

Aviation call is:
’Heathrow Approach, Zing’

 

[Capt Popeye]

Yep well how about

Coastguard coastguard (breath) Yacht Zing, Yacht Zing calling Coast Guard

That scentence combines and confirms, the called Station plus the Yacht calling in to whom all in one scentence

Just a thought from reading all the contributions, so far !

 

[Gary Fox]

It’s done out of necessity, not to play games. The voice frequencies are very limited in bandwidth, so needs to be used sparingly and is fast, with no repetition, no ‘over’ no ‘this is’ no ‘er, er...’ etc,etc.

How can a frequency be limited in bandwidth?

 

[JumbleDuck]

How can a frequency be limited in bandwidth?

They're 50 kHz apart ...

 

[Gary Fox]

They're 50 kHz apart ...

Yes the channels, which are identified by nominal frequencies, are closely spaced; but exactly why does that mean people need to speak incredibly fast, even at a small airfield? Speaking more slowly won't make you more likely to interfere with a neighbouring frequency...