Major incident in the North Sea - ships collide

[Hermit]

Don't ships have a bridge alarm that goes off every few minutes to prevent this?

Bridge navigational watch alarm system - Wikipedia

 

[srm]

Don't ships have a bridge alarm that goes off every few minutes to prevent this?

The grounding in Norway was in the 80's. so pre dates the alarms.
Some UK fishing vessels had to have alarms, probably introduced in the 90's. An initial alarm buzzer in the wheelhouse. If this was not cancelled another loud alarm in the accommodation. All well and good, but the reset was usually mounted within reach of the watch keeper's chair.
As one fisherman told me "its amazing how, after a while, you can press the reset without waking up".

 

[wonkywinch]

On night flights across the Atlantic we used cheap kitchen timers to set 20-40 min periods of "controlled rest".

Flight Crew In-Seat Rest | SKYbrary Aviation Safety

 

[RogerJolly]

On night flights across the Atlantic we used cheap kitchen timers to set 20-40 min periods of "controlled rest".

Flight Crew In-Seat Rest | SKYbrary Aviation Safety

That's weird. I use millions of pounds worth of avionics to time my pizzas!

 

[Roberto]

As one fisherman told me "its amazing how, after a while, you can press the reset without waking up".

I realized that after the first few nights as singlehander, then I placed the kitchen timer at a few meter distance so I was obliged to rise and move myself to silence the alarm.

 

[wonkywinch]

That's weird. I use millions of pounds worth of avionics to time my pizzas!

So did I in my latter years but earlier flights in clockwork planes.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

The quote below is made in the comments section of the YouTube commentary on the vessel manoeuvres. The comment describes the complexities of sailing in that area.

I am Chief Mate on an almost identical ship to the Verity that sails under the German flag and know the conditions in the German Bight very well.
It is one of the busiest sea areas in the world. The collision occurred in a traffic separation area called "German Bight VTS" or as we Germans jokingly call it "North Sea Autobahn". The Veriry came from the Jade / Weser river system and headed north. To do this, she has to drive on a specified one-way path that crosses the VTS German Bight at a right angle. This crossing is north of the island of Spiekeroog.
This crossing of the one-way path is usually very difficult... as there is usually a lot of east-west traffic. For a coaster like the Verity, which actually only sails in these waters and not intercontinental. Is it normal to hold an extremely small CPA for a long time and to sail very close behind the stern of a west or east going ship? Otherwise you sometimes have no other option to cross the one-way path at this intersection.
This is usually very strange for watch officers on large ships; I have often had almost panicked radio calls because my colleagues are told that a CPA less than 0.8 nautical miles must not be allowed. Even if I pass her completely safely at her stern for her ship.
The next point that could be a reason why radio communication could not be made possible is that ships from Hamburg have to change the radio channel 4 to 5 times before reaching the VTS German Bight. Ships from Bremen almost a dozen times. In addition, the ship-to-ship radio channel on the Weser is not channel 16 but channel 6.
For example, if the Verity only had two VHF radios, one with channel 6 on and the other with 82 for German Bight Traffic... it would not have heard calls on channel 16. Many ships that only occasionally sail through German waters are also not familiar with the fact that call radio traffic is usually handled on the traffic channel so that the traffic center can listen in on agreements. The German Bight is an extremely demanding body of water that requires a lot of attention.

 

[capnsensible]

Very interesting, thanks.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

You're right and this is just terminology but it's worth saying that "no blame" isn't the aim - the people who think about these things call it a "just culture".

It starts from the point of view that accidents are usually the result of multiple causes across the overall system rather than one villain doing a bad thing. If you want to improve safety you need to understand those causes, and the legal approach of finding out who is culpable does not do a good job of that.

But it's not "no blame" - once you've looked at all the causes if you're left with people that really should have done better - wilful violation or gross negligence - *then* they need to be held accountable with suitable consequences.

My employer (a government agency) had an accident, incident, and near-miss reporting system in place. Initially, it stated that reports there would be on a "no blame" basis. After a year or so it was realized that incidents that led to harm and where there was negligence or malice involved could never be legally "no blame", and the wording was amended to point out that there were exceptions.

As a minister of religion, I'm in a similar position with regard to information given to me in confidence - if I see evidence of breaches of the law (for example, a safeguarding issue) I am obliged to report it to the relevant authorities, and if I was in a position where such things might be disclosed, I'd have to make it clear that there were things I couldn't keep quiet about. That applies in all circumstances, and I think that doctors and nurses have a similar obligation, though the circumstances of their work make it less likely that they can record such things. This is a VERY condensed version of a much more nuanced position. But forget the "inviolancy of the confession"; a) it isn't CofE doctrine any way and b) a minister who maintained it and was subsequently found to have concealed criminal acts would be liable to criminal proceedings. This puts Catholic priests (inviolance of the confession is a Catholic doctrine) in a very difficult position sometimes!

 

[wonkywinch]

The same in the aviation industry, an open reporting system with no blame except where deliberate negligence is shown.

Most countries have an obligation on doctors to report patients to the authorities if they believe harm may be done except in Germany where patient confidentiality is guaranteed.

Unfortunately, this led to this - Germanwings Flight 9525 - Wikipedia

 

[Roberto]

The same in the aviation industry, an open reporting system with no blame except where deliberate negligence is shown.

Most countries have an obligation on doctors to report patients to the authorities if they believe harm may be done except in Germany where patient confidentiality is guaranteed.

Unfortunately, this led to this - Germanwings Flight 9525 - Wikipedia

I remember during the ceremony with all the victims relatives, most people hugged the pilot parents too, " they have lost a son too".

 

[PhillM]

Sorry, pal. No offence was meant. I just don't see the relevance in the context of the current discussion. My wife's mother and sister both had breast cancer so my wife is at high risk and it's always a major concern for us.

Apologies, I was making the point that accidents and deaths can happen anywhere, and it’s all tragic.