Major incident in the North Sea - ships collide

[Daydream believer]

Not entirely, we know there have been fatalities.
If someone can outline a scenario where 2 ships of this size can collide despite both have early warning systems like AIS and radar and the means to communicate with each other then I'd happily change my view.

Just had a chat to a friend who has delivered his boat to the Canaries ready for the ARC, he says that on the way down the Portugese coast he was passed very close, by at least 2 medium sized ships, at night, with their AIS seemingly inoperative. So having electronic aids & using them are 2 different things.

 

[Irish Rover]

Just had a chat to a friend who has delivered his boat to the Canaries ready for the ARC, he says that on the way down the Portugese coast he was passed very close, by at least 2 medium sized ships, at night, with their AIS seemingly inoperative. So having electronic aids & using them are 2 different things.

Serious negligence, wouldn't you say?

 

[penfold]

Just because a yacht isn't receiving AIS transmissions doesn't mean the transmissions aren't there; defective AIS is a good way of attracting the detention fairies.

 

[lustyd]

Was thinking the same thing. If I got above 1 when counting ships not transmitting I’d start fault finding on my boat, not accusing ships of negligence!

 

[dunedin]

Just because a yacht isn't receiving AIS transmissions doesn't mean the transmissions aren't there; defective AIS is a good way of attracting the detention fairies.

Yes, our AIS generally seems very effective, but in the last 6 months a couple of ships which didn’t seem to be showing on the boat AIS were visible on Marine Traffic.

 

[Stemar]

Serious negligence, wouldn't you say?

Or a bit of work that requires discretion, like sanction-busting.

 

[capnsensible]

Serious negligence, wouldn't you say?

Try this site. There is some more on the accident and enough other incidents to Stoke your outrage to near explosive force.

Maritime News from around the world - FleetMon Maritime News

 

[Irish Rover]

Try this site. There is some more on the accident and enough other incidents to Stoke your outrage to near explosive force.

Maritime News from around the world - FleetMon Maritime News

Thanks. Seems I'm not the only one speculating at this early stage
"Looks like VERITY was to give way to POLESIE, but didn’t turn in time to avoid collision. POLESIE responded too late to avoid collision."

 

[Irish Rover]

When I googled about this incident earlier I came across a report about a similar incident in the North Sea in 2012 where a Bahamas ship the Baltic Ace sank after a collision. The other vessel was Cypriot registered and the Cypriot inquiry concluded "the most probable cause of the accident is the failure of the officers on watch to understand each other's intentions". It's not clear if anyone was held to account beyond that, but it seems not. If anything similar happened between 2 vehicles on the road involving fatalities there would be a criminal investigation.

 

[[194224]]

This link has animated AIS tracking leading to the tragic conclusion.
Body recovered and two rescued after British cargo ship sinks - four people are still missing

 

[jaminb]

The tracking is grim. My sympathies to all the poor families involved.

 

[Irish Rover]

The tracking is grim. My sympathies to all the poor families involved.

Grim, indeed, and reinforces my earlier opinion that serious negligence was involved. If individuals were culpable they need to be held legally accountable and a proper criminal investigation is the best way to achieve this. Lives were lost and wishey washey errors of judgment excuses are not enough.

 

[capnsensible]

Shoot them.

 

[Irish Rover]

Shoot them.

Later, maybe, but let's have the criminal investigation first.

 

[PhillM]

My condolences to all involved. Indeed, being in a collision at sea is my worst nightmare, especially as I choose to be there for leisure.

But I do want to put some perspective on this. There are nearly 1700 fatal car crashes each year. About 90 cyclists die and 13 people have run the London marathon.

 

[Irish Rover]

My condolences to all involved. Indeed, being in a collision at sea is my worst nightmare, especially as I choose to be there for leisure.

But I do want to put some perspective on this. There are nearly 1700 fatal car crashes each year. About 90 cyclists die and 13 people have run the London marathon.

Can't see what the marathon has to do with anything but, in all the other fatalities you mention, there's a full police investigation.

 

[finestgreen]

Grim, indeed, and reinforces my earlier opinion that serious negligence was involved. If individuals were culpable they need to be held legally accountable and a proper criminal investigation is the best way to achieve this. Lives were lost and wishey washey errors of judgment excuses are not enough.

That depends what the "this" you're trying to achieve is. If it's saving future lives, then it's unlikely to be a good way.

 

[ylop]

It will be investigated. Probably by the German equivalent of the UK's Marine Accident Investigation Branch of the MCA. In the case of the MAIB their job is to collect all relevant facts in an objective way and draw conclusions/make recommendations to avoid repeats. They are not criminal investigators.

To be pedantic - the MAIB are NOT part of the MCA they are a branch of the Dept of Transport directly. As you say they investigate to learn from accidents not to enable prosecution. Im making the pedantic distinction because MCA inspectors also investigate potential breaches of the Merchant Shipping Act with the specific intention of prosecuting where crimes are identified.

If anything similar happened between 2 vehicles on the road involving fatalities there would be a criminal investigation.

Whilst there would be criminal investigations, there wouldn’t always be a prosecution and even if there is it doesn’t guarantee a conviction.

Grim, indeed, and reinforces my earlier opinion that serious negligence was involved. If individuals were culpable they need to be held legally accountable and a proper criminal investigation is the best way to achieve this. Lives were lost and wishey washey errors of judgment excuses are not enough.

Well there’s a body of thought that to avoid similar accidents it’s better to encourage open and honest disclosure of what went wrong rather than a finger pointing exercise (it’s easy to blame the watch keepers but perhaps not so easy to identify the route cause especially if there’s just enough to cast doubt).

 

[Irish Rover]

Well there’s a body of thought that to avoid similar accidents it’s better to encourage open and honest disclosure of what went wrong rather than a finger pointing exercise (it’s easy to blame the watch keepers but perhaps not so easy to identify the route cause especially if there’s just enough to cast doubt).

while I take your point, would any of us accept that as a reason not to prosecute a bus driver who's lack of care caused an accident which killed a family member. Would we be happy to put it down to a learning experience for bus drivers generally?

 

[capnsensible]

while I take your point, would any of us accept that as a reason not to prosecute a bus driver who's lack of care caused an accident which killed a family member. Would we be happy to put it down to a learning experience for bus drivers generally?

It will take months, even years to investigate if all the other collisions at sea are anything to go by. By due process, the accident will be investigated. The results will be passed from competent investigators to competent government officials in the jurisdiction of the incident. As one vessel was UK flagged, they MAIB, I'm sure will be involved. This will all take time.

It's pointless hopping up and down like a south American Indian on the deck of Spray doing finger pointy and jumping to conclusions.

In my opinion.....