Major incident in the North Sea - ships collide

[Irish Rover]

Several missing after two cargo ships collide off the coast of Germany

 

[LittleSister]

The Guardian reports one person rescued from the sunken British ship, and search for the others hampered by 30mph winds and 10 foot waves. A cruise ship is involved with the search alongside other vessels.

british-cargo-ship-reportedly-sinks-with-several-missing-in-north-sea

 

[nicho]

The Guardian reports one person rescued from the sunken British ship, and search for the others hampered by 30mph winds and 10 foot waves. A cruise ship is involved with the search alongside other vessels.

british-cargo-ship-reportedly-sinks-with-several-missing-in-north-sea

IONA the P&O cruise ship has evidently picked three bodies from the sea sadly.

 

[Irish Rover]

I can't see any way this collision could have occurred without serious negligence on both ships. I sincerely hope there will be a criminal investigation.

 

[Daydream believer]

IONA the P&O cruise ship has evidently picked three bodies from the sea sadly.

I wonder how they do that from a high sided vessel? Do they lower a liferaft ( covered motorised vessel- do not know name) & motor over to collect the MOB then motor back to the host vessel where they get lifted back on.
Or is collection/transfer all done by helicopter?

 

[Devon Boy]

I wonder how they do that from a high sided vessel? Do they lower a liferaft ( covered motorised vessel- do not know name) & motor over to collect the MOB then motor back to the host vessel where they get lifted back on.
Or is collection/transfer all done by helicopter?

Pretty much as you describe. Use the large vessel to create a lee, use a FRC (Fast Rescue Craft) to recover a casualty and then return to mothership.

 

[srm]

I can't see any way this collision could have occurred without serious negligence on both ships. I sincerely hope there will be a criminal investigation.

It will be investigated. Probably by the German equivalent of the UK's Marine Accident Investigation Branch of the MCA. In the case of the MAIB their job is to collect all relevant facts in an objective way and draw conclusions/make recommendations to avoid repeats. They are not criminal investigators.

Calling the incident "serious negligence" at this stage when minimal information and no hard facts other than casualty recovery are available is, at best, a little premature.

If you have read a few MAIB collision reports you will have seen that a collision usually involves faulty judgements by both parties.

 

[johnalison]

It will be investigated. Probably by the German equivalent of the UK's Marine Accident Investigation Branch of the MCA. In the case of the MAIB their job is to collect all relevant facts in an objective way and draw conclusions/make recommendations to avoid repeats. They are not criminal investigators.

Calling the incident "serious negligence" at this stage when minimal information and no hard facts other than casualty recovery are available is, at best, a little premature.

If you have read a few MAIB collision reports you will have seen that a collision usually involves faulty judgements by both parties.

Or even mechanical failure, and I agree that there is no point in speculation. The rotatory area of the Jade-Weser estuary is very busy and carefully policed, with yachts banned. I will, though, speculate that it was in this region that the collision (not collusion!) occurred.

 

[Irish Rover]

It will be investigated. Probably by the German equivalent of the UK's Marine Accident Investigation Branch of the MCA. In the case of the MAIB their job is to collect all relevant facts in an objective way and draw conclusions/make recommendations to avoid repeats. They are not criminal investigators.

Calling the incident "serious negligence" at this stage when minimal information and no hard facts other than casualty recovery are available is, at best, a little premature.

If you have read a few MAIB collision reports you will have seen that a collision usually involves faulty judgements by both parties.

How far removed from serious negligence are faulty judgements with the level of technology available to both ships.

 

[lustyd]

is, at best, a little premature.

Well the report suggests they were colluding so...

The cause of the collusion between the two ships is still unknown.

 

[DFL1010]

It will be investigated. Probably by the German equivalent of the UK's Marine Accident Investigation Branch of the MCA. In the case of the MAIB their job is to collect all relevant facts in an objective way and draw conclusions/make recommendations to avoid repeats. They are not criminal investigators.

Calling the incident "serious negligence" at this stage when minimal information and no hard facts other than casualty recovery are available is, at best, a little premature.

If you have read a few MAIB collision reports you will have seen that a collision usually involves faulty judgements by both parties.

Could well be a joint investigation since the Verity was UK flagged.

But yes I agree that premature speculation is as unhelpful as it it distasteful.

 

[penfold]

A handysize bulker versus a coaster, not a surprise the coaster came off worse.

Could well be a joint investigation since the Verity was UK flagged.

But yes I agree that premature speculation is as unhelpful as it it distasteful.

UK MCA, Bahamas and the germans will be doing it jointly.

 

[veshengro]

I wonder how they do that from a high sided vessel? Do they lower a liferaft ( covered motorised vessel- do not know name) & motor over to collect the MOB then motor back to the host vessel where they get lifted back on.
Or is collection/transfer all done by helicopter?

I've been involved on two occasions when people were taken on board at sea. One, a lady passenger who jumped overboard off Mombasa, Kenya, in a suicide incident which unfortunately was successful. The other occasion was just South of Blyth Northumberland when our own ship's Cook slipped and went over the side. In both ships number 1 lifeboat, first boat starboard side, was a motor boat which we lowered and used for recovery.
Both occasions involved heaving to by the ship to provide a lee while we hauled the person into the boat.
Jumping 50 feet or so full of Vodka in the first incident meant it was a body recovery, while in Mac the Cook's case the moral is, don't try dumping big drums of Gash over the side when she's loaded with Coal and rolling her decks under in a North Sea Gale. He was always called lucky Mac afterwards because the Galley Boy saw him go over and Mac hung onto the empty drum for 40 odd minutes until we got to him.

 

[capnsensible]

I can't see any way this collision could have occurred without serious negligence on both ships. I sincerely hope there will be a criminal investigation.

Easy, tiger. We are currently in a fact free zone....

 

[Irish Rover]

Easy, tiger. We are currently in a fact free zone....

Not entirely, we know there have been fatalities.
If someone can outline a scenario where 2 ships of this size can collide despite both have early warning systems like AIS and radar and the means to communicate with each other then I'd happily change my view.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

How far removed from serious negligence are faulty judgements with the level of technology available to both ships.

Cyber security is an increasing threat. My employer held an exercise where an external agency, took control of drill ship dynamic positioning system. In general the maritime industry at vessel level, has poor controls in this space.

I am just using this as an example, not suggesting that external factors were at play. Technology is pretty poor, with mist systems still hanging on Windows 7 or XP OS on servers.

 

[capnsensible]

Not entirely, we know there have been fatalities.
If someone can outline a scenario where 2 ships of this size can collide despite both have early warning systems like AIS and radar and the means to communicate with each other then I'd happily change my view.

Dream up any scenario you like. Fill yer boots.

Or do what most people do and be patient. The facts will be out in the end, speculation is, frankly, pointless.....

 

[Irish Rover]

speculation is, frankly, pointless.....

Yeah, I guess it's a bit like the YBW forum, but still we do it.

 

[penfold]

Cyber security is an increasing threat. My employer held an exercise where an external agency, took control of drill ship dynamic positioning system. In general the maritime industry at vessel level, has poor controls in this space.

I am just using this as an example, not suggesting that external factors were at play. Technology is pretty poor, with mist systems still hanging on Windows 7 or XP OS on servers.

Pretty unlikely that either vessel has any IOT or similar systems; these are old vessels nearer to the breakers yard than the shipyard, worst case the ECDIS might be corrupted but they still have charts.

 

[LittleSister]

The facts will be out in the end, speculation is, frankly, pointless.....

But it's one of my few pleasures in life.

Come to think of it, life itself is pretty pointless.