MAIB Report Achieve - Talis

[chrishscorp]

FYI

MAIB Report into collision between Achieve a fishing vessel and Talis a general cargo ship resulting in the sinking of Achieve

https://assets.publishing.service.g...7f05522e2e81/2021-14-Achieve-Talis-Report.pdf

 

[LittleSister]

What a tale of woe!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

A good reminder of the need to keep a good lookout by all means possible!

 

[Wing Mark]

A good reminder that fishing boats a re often on autopilot with no lookout, no AIS and nobody at the helm.

Keeping a good lookout by any one of the available means would have done the trick.

 

[doug748]

Not much sympathy for the fishing bloke, author of his own misfortune.

 

[jdc]

A good reminder that fishing boats a re often on autopilot with no lookout, no AIS and nobody at the helm.

That may or may not be true, but it's not respectable statistics to generalise from this sort of report as, of course, the tens of thousands of safe passages by fishermen don't get reported. It is, after all, an accident report. This is termed sampling bias, and is why what we read in newspapers gives an inaccurate impression of our society.

For a counter example, where the fisherman was spot on and keeping an excellent watch, see this recent MAIB report.

 

[srm]

Not much sympathy for the fishing bloke, author of his own misfortune.

Sadly, this is the reality of trying to make a living from commercial fishing. It is unlikely that the fishery would support one person full time in the wheelhouse and adequate crew on deck.

Its easy enough for leisure boaters to be critical, but then we have nothing more to do at sea than manage our vessels. Funds to maintain the vessel and ourselves come from a different source.

I have been in near miss situations with both fishing and merchant vessels. I am also well aware of the commercial pressures on their officers and crews that often lead to fatigue and poor watch keeping after fishing or loading/unloading cargo. Society wants cheap food and cheap goods, the result is people pressured into taking risks to keep their jobs and provide for their families.

 

[Wing Mark]

That may or may not be true, but it's not respectable statistics to generalise from this sort of report as, of course, the tens of thousands of safe passages by fishermen don't get reported. It is, after all, an accident report. This is termed sampling bias, and is why what we read in newspapers gives an inaccurate impression of our society.

For a counter example, where the fisherman was spot on and keeping an excellent watch, see this recent MAIB report.

I wasn't suggesting that one incident tells us anything about the stats of unmanned wheelhouses on fishing boats.
I can get a good idea of that by looking at their manning levels as the come in and out of our river and by seeing their behaviour at sea over the last 30+ years.

I was just intending to point out that yachts are often more at risk from small craft like fishing boats than better manned, more predictable craft like ferries.

How many of those tens of thousands of trips where noting went wrong are down to luck?
Or are there a majority of fishermen who are fairly safe and a minority of chancers?

 

[srm]

Or are there a majority of fishermen who are fairly safe and a minority of chancers?

I would suggest that the vast majority of fishermen are competent, and are not going to deliberately risk their boat/livelihood/lives. However, as I mentioned above, they will often be fatigued after a long day, or week, fishing and mistakes may be made.
I also knew of one fishing skipper who admitted to going on steaming watch with fishing lights on and his pillow, so yes there are some chancers.

When sailing my policy has always been to assume that fishing vessels and coasters etc. are unaware of my existence and act accordingly.

 

[CM74]

I don't know much about the fishing industry, but small coasters often have crazy schedules, surprisingly small crews, and lots of admin stuff - so there is a big problem in the industry with watchkeepers being excessively fatigued, or even asleep.
It's not always ideal on bigger ships either but their larger crews mean it's less of a problem overall.

 

[[70521]]

That may or may not be true, but it's not respectable statistics to generalise from this sort of report as, of course, the tens of thousands of safe passages by fishermen don't get reported. It is, after all, an accident report. This is termed sampling bias, and is why what we read in newspapers gives an inaccurate impression of our society.

For a counter example, where the fisherman was spot on and keeping an excellent watch, see this recent MAIB report.

True, but an accident report is the investigation and reporting of accident. It is not concerned with the thousands of voyages that happen without incident.

Now step back and consider the number of occasions when you have passed a fishing vessel in fog with nobody to be seen in the wheelhouse. Then take another step back and consider how familiarity breeds contempt. Then take a look at the report of the guy who skippered a yacht round to the London Boat Show in a storm after doing a tour in Afghanistan and consider the 'risk confort' of that skipper.

The MAIB, AAIB and others are there to investigate and report on accidents. They do a really good job, I have been involved in writing such reports in the 'and others' category. They are written to remind people that if you don't follow the safety procedures bad things can happen, that may or may not kill people, and you may be held responsible or accountable. You might find yourself under investigation to appear in a criminal or civil court.

 

[PilotWolf]

True, but an accident report is the investigation and reporting of accident. It is not concerned with the thousands of voyages that happen without incident.

Now step back and consider the number of occasions when you have passed a fishing vessel in fog with nobody to be seen in the wheelhouse. Then take another step back and consider how familiarity breeds contempt. Then take a look at the report of the guy who skippered a yacht round to the London Boat Show in a storm after doing a tour in Afghanistan and consider the 'risk confort' of that skipper.

The MAIB, AAIB and others are there to investigate and report on accidents. They do a really good job, I have been involved in writing such reports in the 'and others' category. They are written to remind people that if you don't follow the safety procedures bad things can happen, that may or may not kill people, and you may be held responsible or accountable. You might find yourself under investigation to appear in a criminal or civil court.

I'm kind of concerned that anyone is close enough in fog to be able to see inside a fishing boats wheelhouse.

I witnessed an incident recently in fog, ship sound appropriate fog signals, increased bridge watch, 'low level' radars in operation. Had to come to a dead stop in the water as it was impossible to ascertain what a small target was doing, no response to VHF calls.

A 30 - 40 ft yacht under power, no sails up, passes port to starboard across the bow less than 1/4 mile away (that was right on the edge of the visibility range - Furuno radome on mast - either not switched or or incompetently used as 90000 ton would probably have caused a few viewing problems that close!

W.

 

[LittleSister]

I'm kind of concerned that anyone is close enough in fog to be able to see inside a fishing boats wheelhouse.

Indeed, and the C/O of the cargo ship was (effectively) criticised for failing to slow or adjust his course while he was trying to figure out what, if anything, he was seeing ahead on the radar.

 

[PilotWolf]

Indeed, and the C/O of the cargo ship was (effectively) criticised for failing to slow or adjust his course while he was trying to figure out what, if anything, he was seeing ahead on the radar.

I agree but my comment was more toward Sandy’s post.

W.

 

[srm]

Now step back and consider the number of occasions when you have passed a fishing vessel in fog with nobody to be seen in the wheelhouse.

In nearly 50 years of cruising, including as a charter skipper; and much of that time in northern waters - NEVER.
I have heard fishing vessels working close by in fog but never got close enough to do a head count of their crew.

Do tell, how often have you gone close enough to a fishing boat in fog and observed an empty wheelhouse ?

 

[Skylark]

The report says that the fishing boat had a portable radar reflector but that it was not fitted to the mast. I don’t know what the radar signature of this 9m wooden vessel was but a reflector may have made a key difference.

 

[Stemar]

a reflector may have made a key difference.

Only if someone's looking at the radar on the cargo ship. And even if they are, at what point do they decide "that silly bugger's going to ram us"? And, what do they do to get out of his way? In this case, a swift left hand down a bit (a lot) would seem sensible, but that's a no-no under colregs.

 

[Wing Mark]

The fishing boat just drove into the side of the freighter.
The freighter was stand on,.
Small manoeuvrable boats often pass close behind ships

The freighter did not have long to realise the wheelhouse was unmanned and that the fishing boat was not going to turn away.
By that time the freighter can't do much, it has a much bigger turning circle and is not well placed to take evasive action.
If it had gone hard astern, the result would perhaps have been running over the fishing boat.

A radar reflector might have helped. The watch on the freighter might have realised there was a small craft with no AIS approaching and turned to starboard a little so the situation never arose.
Might even have assume it was some WAFI under sail and given way?
Or anything that gave the freighter an earlier decision to sound the whistle might have got the fisherman to the helm in time.
Just an extra 15 seconds may have changed things.
It's interesting that the radar only picked up the FB at 1NM, it's not exactly a stealth bomber.

There was a bit of a delay before anyone called the coastguard, as if both skippers might have shrugged it off like a couple of Toppers bumping at the leeward mark, had the fishing boat not started taking on too much water?

 

[DFL1010]

The freighter was stand on,.

No it wasn't. R19 applied, and there is no stand on vessel under that rule. R19(d): "A vessel which detects by radar alone the presence of another vessel shall determine if a closequarters situation is developing and/or risk of collision exists. If so, she shall take avoiding action in ample time ..."

Might even have assume it was some WAFI under sail and given way?

Assumptions based on scanty information and all that.

 

[jdc]

There is no stand-on in fog! That's an absolutely fundamental point which, sadly, few seem to grasp.

Edit - beaten to it