Lobster pots: what happens and what do you do?

[alorwin]

I'm only going to post once, as last time I got involved in a slanging match with some berk fisherman who actually said it's quite oK to endanger the lives of sailing families as 'they shouldn't sail among pots' !

My particular beef is with pots in places like Portland Race inshore passage, where the pots are towed underwater by the current.

I was told that a good lookout can see them and anyway it's a good lucrative place to lay these traps for lobsters and boats alike !

I agree the amateurs are among the worst offenders, but as has also been said I notice the French etc use far better marks.

Fishermen show no regard for the sea - ever seen the non-biodegradable junk they throw over the side ? And no regard for other people
Blueglass, I'm with you 100%, now pass me my long pruning shears and let me among the dangerously positioned, unmarked offenders !

You are an uneducated fool

 

[Fascadale]

Oh dear, back to this one again.

In this earlier thread on the subject Mr Haydude wrote the immortal lines,

"Through this discussion, and after thoughtful analysis we realized that fishermen are a category who only take from a system without returning any value back to the system they extract resources from, and therefore on a biological basis they can be classified as parasites." (Page 10, post 97)

I suspect these lines were written before the excellent TV series showing the hard and dangerous lives led by our fishermen.

Is there widespread agreement with Mr Dude? Does the yachting community really realize that fishermen , on a biological basis, can be classed as parasites? What other groups in our society do yachtsmen view like this? And where does this take a society which thinks of minority groups as "parasites"?

 

[Sybarite]

Ocean racers use them up the masts.

 

[capnsensible]

I have a great respect for fishermen. Somewhat more so than to those who, in pursuit of happiness, deem them parasites.

As the Dragons say, I'm out.

 

[fisherman]

Can I play?

 

[Seajet]

Please do, I've known you talk sense !

 

[Tranona]

I rest my case your honor - I'm surrounded by F**kng idiots!

Have ever tried to ask the local fishermen then? Most will be happy to help to avoid damage to their gear - its their livelihood not yours. Try going down the dock one morning before they set off or when they land, not every morning but if you approach with the right attitude you get the infoyou want. Not specific marks, but at leas the area they are working. What els do you need?

Most of you have pre-conceived ideas about fishermen and are pre-occupied with fisherman hatred that you can't/won't see the simple way out.

I'm out of here now as I'm wasting my time.

Thats an idealistic view. If you sailed in our area - say Solent to Portland then you will know where the pots are. Avoiding them is just not possible as they are there all the time in locations that are part of well known coastal passages. Difficult to do, say Yarmouth to Poole, then Poole to Weymouth without going through locations with strong tidal flows that are littered with badly marked pots often lying just under the water, dragged down by the tide. Come out with me one day off Old Harry for an instant demonstration. Same with Needles Channel, Christchurch Ledge, Portland Bill - in fact anywhere with shallow uneven bottoms where crabs and lobsters live.

I have a map that is the result of surveys of the most heavily potted areas around our coasts. A quick check in nearby boatyards at layup time will show a high proportion of boats fitted with rope cutters. Lymington typically 70%+ are fitted wiith them. I wonder why?

 

[blueglass]

Why are the pro fishermen posters so intent on polarising the discussion. Most of us don't hate fishermen or consider them parasites, I love a crab sandwich although rarely can afford lobster and accept that catching the aforesaid is a worthy and laudable occupation.
we just want them to mark their pots clearly - why is that so completely unreasonable?
As for those who say they have never run over their own gear - I should hope not - you put them there and so, presumably know exactly where they are!
Maybe the fishermen on here DO mark clearly, I wouldn't know. Perhaps one of them can give their reasoned argument as to why it is a great idea to not do so.
Its not rocket science, its not expensive, its not particularly time consuming, so come on, why not? I just don't understand. But then I am just an uneducated fool.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Is there widespread agreement with Mr Dude? Does the yachting community really realize that fishermen , on a biological basis, can be classed as parasites?

I agree. Fishermen on the whole simply exploit naturally occurring resources and then when the inevitable occurs, and fish stocks collapse, come whining to the taxpayer for decommissioning handouts. The danger and discomfort don't change that.

 

[sighmoon]

Oh dear, back to this one again.

In this earlier thread on the subject Mr Haydude wrote the immortal lines,

"Through this discussion, and after thoughtful analysis we realized that fishermen are a category who only take from a system without returning any value back to the system they extract resources from, and therefore on a biological basis they can be classified as parasites." (Page 10, post 97)

Hunters, surely? And what are they expected to give back?

 

[BelleSerene]

By law fishing gear must carry the name of an identification of the vessel who owns them.

I'd love that to be the case, and I suspect it is. Can anyone point to the law? (Inside UK waters, that is?)

 

[BelleSerene]

Anyone suggest whether a ropecutter helps when you catch a line while sailing along, which is the huge majority of the time, rather than motoring? I guess with any luck the prop's jammed stationary in reverse so you hook the line and drag it; but then when you unjam the prop before starting the engine it's likely to rotate - and by that stage will the ropecutter do the job? And if the prop was unfortunately slowly rotating freely as you sailed into the line, wouldn't you be equally stuffed?

I have a Spurs cutter fitted since the last time I had to dive the boat - a spooky experience on five lungfuls of air armed with a mask, waterproof torch and the ship's breadknife - but I've always wondered whether any cutter would help if you catch the line while not under power.

 

[Tranona]

Anyone suggest whether a ropecutter helps when you catch a line while sailing along, which is the huge majority of the time, rather than motoring? I guess with any luck the prop's jammed stationary in reverse so you hook the line and drag it; but then when you unjam the prop before starting the engine it's likely to rotate - and by that stage will the ropecutter do the job? And if the prop was unfortunately slowly rotating freely as you sailed into the line, wouldn't you be equally stuffed?

I have a Spurs cutter fitted since the last time I had to dive the boat - a spooky experience on five lungfuls of air armed with a mask, waterproof torch and the ship's breadknife - but I've always wondered whether any cutter would help if you catch the line while not under power.

Not sure whether it would work with a Spurs cutter, but with my Stripper (serrated teeth) you just put it into gear, both forward and reverse and it just chews its way through. Pot lines are less of a problem as the single rope cuts easily - bits of net and plastic take a bit longer.

 

[blueglass]

I'd love that to be the case, and I suspect it is. Can anyone point to the law? (Inside UK waters, that is?)

this is a 2006 proposal by Northern Ireland Fisheries, not sure if passed yet?

The site of pots must be marked with a floating marker buoy that is clearly and indelibly marked with the name of the owner of the pots (or permit number)
In order to aid enforcement the name of the owner of the pots (or a permit number) is required on the marker buoy and marker buoys that are unmarked or gear with no marker buoy attached would be assumed to be fishing illegally and could be seized.


This one is from Northumberland Fisheries and IS on the books.
11. Marking of Fishing Gear and Keep Boxes

(1) The site of all pots, traps, keep pots and boxes, nets or long or set lines shall be clearly identified by a marker buoy or dahn fixed to both ends of the fishing gear. The marker buoys or dahns shall be clearly visible on the surface of the water. Strings of pots or traps consisting of five pots or traps per string or less shall require only one end of the string to be buoyed.

(2) Each marker buoy or dahn shall have clearly displayed upon it:

* the identification of the boat that set the gear, or

* the owner of the gear if set from an unregistered fishing vessel, or

* in the case where the gear has been set and does not fall into the two preceding categories the identification may be either:

(i) the port letters and number of any fishing vessel registered in accordance with the Merchant Shipping Act 1995; or

* the owner’s name and contact telephone number in the case of any unregistered fishing vessels or of gear not set from a boat.

 

[haydude]

I agree. Fishermen on the whole simply exploit naturally occurring resources and then when the inevitable occurs, and fish stocks collapse, come whining to the taxpayer for decommissioning handouts. The danger and discomfort don't change that.

I agree and although I respect the fisherman as a person who some times has a hard life, I do not respect the damage that fishermen as whole do to the environment. I do not respect the damage they do with their thrawlers but most of all I condemn and I regard as criminals those who through their poor practice of leaving behind poorly marked fishing gear, especially in well known corridors used for coastal passages, cause loss of vessels and people's death!

As with regard to decommissioning handouts, the government should instead put an extra tax on fishermen to fund the repopulation of the sea species they have decimated.

 

[haydude]

To summarize once again:

Unattended fishing gear must be marked with the owner's details. This will help also in the investigation around responsibilities in case of a serious accident.

UNMARKED FISHING GEAR IS TO BE REGARDED AS ABANDONED AND AS SUCH NOT ONLY CAN, BUT MUST BE REMOVED

 

[Robin]

I have very strong feelings about Black & Blue Can Men, who I suspect are cowboy semi-pros. I have strong views about the deliberate use offshore by professionals of long floating pickup lines between large support buoy and small pickup buoy. I am also not in favour of methods such as scallop dredging that destroys the sea bed. I also believe all gear should be properly marked for identification.

That all said, I am certainly not in favour of some of the vitriolic bollox being posted on here about fishermen in general.

This post started as a debate on pot lines and the problems they can cause. It has deteriorated into a slagging match in my view that is as distasteful as it is inaccurate and I for one wish not to be associated with it.

 

[ChrisE]

This post started as a debate on pot lines and the problems they can cause. It has deteriorated into a slagging match in my view that is as distasteful as it is inaccurate and I for one wish not to be associated with it.

As ever, Robin, you and I agree.

 

[LadyInBed]

Sorry about the bitty way of doing this, but have lost longer posts before!!

Type it up off line then copy and paste

 

[fisherman]

to summarize once again:

Unattended fishing gear must be marked with the owner's details. This will help also in the investigation around responsibilities in case of a serious accident.

Unmarked fishing gear is to be regarded as abandoned and as such not only can, but must be removed

did you get that from a harbour authority edict?