Lobster pots: what happens and what do you do?

[Robin]

The trouble in deep water, and anywhere else in rough water or a tideway, is that only a danbuoy will show up visually. If I am going to come across a buoy at all, I generally feel happier if it is marked with a danbuoy, and that means there is a line attaching it to the marker-buoy. Generally, these lines are not long but I can understand the difficulty described. On one occasion when leaving New Grimsby Sound early in the morning I passed a marker buoy in rough water only to see the danbuoy passing by on the other side of my boat. We seemed to get through without catching anything.

The deepwater ones in The Channel & south of Guernsey are very large fluorescent pink buoys and mostly do just stay visible albeit 95% submerged at times but the pickups are not proper danbuoys, just regular small pickup buoys with handles a la yottie moorings. I guess the long floating line is what they use to pickup rather than the buoy, maybe with a grapnel line? What you describe would apparently have a non-floating line and a very visible long pole danbuoy, much less dangerous.

Sound of Iona, 4+ knots of tide against wind, over the side with a diving knife.
I wasn't able to avoid the fouling, but ensuring the boat was tethered gave an element of control.

Sounds like exactly the kind of situation where the Sadler 29 owner lost his life. I must admit I was more blase about situations like this in the past but now I think my life and health are more important to me than my street cred!

 

[RobBrown]

I carry a cycle crash helmet on board for head protection if I ever needed to go over the side to cut a line free. Not an absolute protection & never had to use it as yet but better than nothing!

 

[xyachtdave]

This reminds me of a (first visit) bank holiday trip to the river Blackwater. Loads of wind on the way up (SW) turning into a headwind on entering the river. Wife and 8 year old daughter on board, weather about to get worse, heavy rain to go with the 25 knot breeze......

I decide to drop sail, stick the engine on and motor the last 3 or 4 miles to get some hot water and charge the batteries up, we can see our destination, the Marconi Sailing Club (very nice bunch of chaps) ahead.

Loads of racing boats about and being on port and threading our way through seemed foolish. My wife now on the helm whilst I tidy up and go below to check our tiddles when urgent call from SWMBO to come up.

An 18 year old 'fisherman' who appeared to have strung a net between 2 pot markers about 200m apart was shouting and swearing about running over his gear. We are in a narrow buoyed part of the river and have now collected a large chunk of his net around our prop.

I honestly thought he was a safety boat bombing about at high speed for the various racing fleets, his plan however was to shoo people away from his poorly marked gear.

After half an hour of trying to free the net it became obvious we had to cut it all free. I felt bad about this as the net represents this guys living.

Apparently 'not many people fish like this anymore,' so in short if you see what look like a couple of pot markers a long way apart, try to avoid going between them!

 

[Ubergeekian]

Apparently 'not many people fish like this anymore,' so in short if you see what look like a couple of pot markers a long way apart, try to avoid going between them!

My standard rule on the West Coast of Scotland is "When you see one tiny, half-submerged buoy, look carefully for the other one and don't go between them."

 

[Boathook]

the ........ to follow the 20 foot contour - Dylan

20 foot - thats deep water for me!!! I try to keep to 10 foot or less when bashing the tide and trying to ignore the pots ......

 

[Tranona]

Sounds like exactly the kind of situation where the Sadler 29 owner lost his life. I must admit I was more blase about situations like this in the past but now I think my life and health are more important to me than my street cred!

My sentiments exactly! As you get older you realise there is a fine dividing line between being gung-ho self-reliant and - stupid. Trouble is some people never know where it is, but their loved ones find out too late.

 

[Babylon]

I carry a [bi]cycle crash helmet on board for head protection if I ever needed to go over the side to cut a line free. Not an absolute protection & never had to use it as yet but better than nothing!

What a good idea! Embarrasingly we got our own trot-mooring pickup line around our own prop three years ago. Once we had got spare lines to the fore and aft buoys and severed the fouled pickup line from the cockpit with a knife lashed to a boathook, I went into the river, via the inflatable, with half-body wetsuit, goggles, safety line and the breadknife.

My worry was that, with lots of craft charging up and down-river at bang on the 6 knot limit, there was a lot of wash lifting and bringing the counter down quite hard. As I couldn't succeed in staying under long enough each go to remove all the tightly-wound line from the prop (plus a shackle which proved in the event to have damaged the stern-tube!), in the end I called it a day - just too risky a job under the conditions. I phoned a local diver: wearing a dry-suit, with an old aqualung as a counter-weight to his buoyancy, and wielding an 8" knife, he cleared the debris within a minute.

If it was going to be brain-damage and/or death, or a hundred quid for a pro, I'm glad I chose the latter.

 

[James_Calvert]

I know the ones you mean

Another place BTW to find the large pink buoys plus long floating pickup lines held across your course by strong tides is south of Guernsey.

I caught one of these with our Sadler 32 sailing from St Peter Port towards Treguier. Foolishly passed it too close up tide - about two boat lengths maybe? Caught the main buoy between the keel and the rudder skeg. Not wrapped round anything fortunately. After a few minutes anchored by the rudder with the buoy banging away under the quarter, I managed to clear it by pushing the buoy underwater with a stout boathook. Once it went under, the tide pulled it away under the boat and I was clear.

Very lucky in retrospect.

 

[fisherman]

And how do you do that (haul in and tie off) when there is 4 knots of tide running against the wind as in the case Robin and I were recalling above?
QUOTE]

Length of rope with a piece of chain in the middle. Drop the chain over the stern across the potrope, jangle it down a good way. Walk one end round the boat twice, to wind the chain round the potrope. Take both ends for'd and haul in, make the potrope fast. Now you should have slack potrope streaming astern, you can at least get free, maybe cut and haul one end through, or use the pruning shears I've often suggested.

 

[DannyB]

I've never been in the situation, but I've often wondered if you could take the anchor from the bow and carry it to the stern, drop it to one side of the fouled rope, and then use the windlass to pull it up again. I would think that would result in the boat turning, and make it easy to access the fouled line. Once the fouled line is on board and secure, you still have the problem of cutting it free.

On the subject of going over the side. I have an old Musto hat which has a hard top (sheet of cork I think) not as effective as a crash helmet, but better than nothing.

 

[haydude]

Lobster Pots are a danger

Lobester Pots and poorly marked fishing gear are a danger to recreational crafts, but also can cause expensive damage to large vessels.

By law fishing gear must carry the name of an identification of the vessel who owns them. Most fishermen do not mark their gear. Some for ignorance, most because they know that if their gear is cause of damage to other vessels, and the gear wasn't appropriate and visible, they are liable to pay damage.

Unmarked fishing gear can be regarded as "abandoned fishing gear".

Abandoned fishing gear can and should be removed. I encourage everyone to cut the lines and remove any found abandoned gear.

 

[blueglass]

Lobester Pots and poorly marked fishing gear are a danger to recreational crafts, but also can cause expensive damage to large vessels.

By law fishing gear must carry the name of an identification of the vessel who owns them. Most fishermen do not mark their gear. Some for ignorance, most because they know that if their gear is cause of damage to other vessels, and the gear wasn't appropriate and visible, they are liable to pay damage.

Unmarked fishing gear can be regarded as "abandoned fishing gear".

Abandoned fishing gear can and should be removed. I encourage everyone to cut the lines and remove any found abandoned gear.

I partially agree and I posted a similar plea on here some years ago and was shot down in flames from several sources, some with valid points.e.g
#1 from conservationists - they say that the pot lies on the seabed and claims the lives of crabs and lobsters for years afterwards that get trapped inside and die there. (fair point)
#2 from fishermen - they complain about the high cost of the gear which is lost and they are only trying to make a living like everybody else.(no sympathy here from me)
#3 from fellow boaters - they worry about the personal safety of any boater who was found out cutting lines who would have a local fisherman's reception committee waiting on their pontoon to mete out revenge!!!

 

[haydude]

I partially agree and I posted a similar plea on here some years ago and was shot down in flames from several sources, some with valid points.e.g
#1 from conservationists - they say that the pot lies on the seabed and claims the lives of crabs and lobsters for years afterwards that get trapped inside and die there. (fair point)
#2 from fishermen - they complain about the high cost of the gear which is lost and they are only trying to make a living like everybody else.(no sympathy here from me)
#3 from fellow boaters - they worry about the personal safety of any boater who was found out cutting lines who would have a local fisherman's reception committee waiting on their pontoon to mete out revenge!!!

I heard those too before and I care more about my boat and my principles than conservationists and irresponsible fishermen (please note that I do not regard every fisherman as irresponsible, but black and blue can men are criminals and deserve their lines to be cut).

 

[Kelpie]

I wonder what the increase in operating costs would be if fishermen were required to e.g. affix lights and danbuoys to all their gear. Quite a lot, I imagine. So in their defence, I would point out that most of them are working their ars*s off for very little return, they are not coining it in hand over fist. Secondly, they are out in boats every single day running basically the same risk as we do- at least the guys in the really small boats. Nearly all of these smaller boats are single handed so getting fouled is a major danger for them yet clearly they consider it feasible to keep a good enough lookout to avoid the danger, rather than improving the marking systems.

 

[haydude]

I wonder what the increase in operating costs would be if fishermen were required to e.g. affix lights and danbuoys to all their gear. Quite a lot, I imagine. So in their defence [...]

Blah, blah, blah ... less than it costs to us to replace a broken shaft or worse a lost life!!!

One lost life whilst trying to cut a jammed line is not worth saving on a billion lights and danbuoys!

Nobody asks fishermen to do the job they do, in addition the really dangerous ones are little amateurs.

And yes it was said before that fishermen are a category that only take from the sea without putting anything back. Therefore in general no respect for "costs" comments.
If fishing practiced in respect of the environment and "thai neighbour" is not cost effective, then don't do it!

 

[capnsensible]

Rrecommend that if you feel so strongly about lobster pots, that you avoid the coastal waters of the following countries where the intensity of pots is far greater than UK:

France, Portugal, Spain, Morocco, Azores, all the West Indian Islands.

Many people in poorer places have no other choice in providing for their families and will probably have the same disdain for you that you have for them. Such is life.

 

[blueglass]

I wonder what the increase in operating costs would be if fishermen were required to e.g. affix lights and danbuoys to all their gear. Quite a lot, I imagine. So in their defence, I would point out that most of them are working their ars*s off for very little return, they are not coining it in hand over fist. Secondly, they are out in boats every single day running basically the same risk as we do- at least the guys in the really small boats. Nearly all of these smaller boats are single handed so getting fouled is a major danger for them yet clearly they consider it feasible to keep a good enough lookout to avoid the danger, rather than improving the marking systems.

safety first, second, third and fourth. an individual fisherman's costs can surely not be accepted as a factor. When so many of them refuse even to employ the very cheapest of safety devices, never mind lights etc. Not using floating line would be little cost as would a decent high visibilty marker bouy. It would cost nothing to do their tide calculations so that markers are not held invisibly just below the surface at high water. They might even find it cost EFFECTIVE as less gear would be lost.

 

[blueglass]

Rrecommend that if you feel so strongly about lobster pots, that you avoid the coastal waters of the following countries where the intensity of pots is far greater than UK:

France, Portugal, Spain, Morocco, Azores, all the West Indian Islands.

Many people in poorer places have no other choice in providing for their families and will probably have the same disdain for you that you have for them. Such is life.

Nobody, no matter how poor they are has the right, morally or legally to put another person's life in danger. Nobody has said lobster pots should be banned - just clearly marked.
I suspect you would be less blase if you had been hooked up yourself in dangerous circumstances at any time.
Incidentally in the south of France, Italy and Greece they are in my experience far better marked than in the UK, and with no tide issue they are always on the surface

 

[capnsensible]

I suspect that the fishermen you dismiss will probably think you are the reckless one for sailing in waters where pots have been laid for generations before liesure yachting was ever thought of.

 

[capnsensible]

OK, so here is a salty tale.

Was delivering a brand new Jennneau 42 from Les Sables, where we commissioned it, to Lanzarotte.

Off the North coast of Spain, in about 150 odd meters of water, the chap on watch was unfortunate to get us hooked up. We didnt know at the time quite how much junk was caught round the keel and prop, but I managed to cut us free leaning over the stern with good old kitchen knife, tide possibly 2 knots.