Liveaboard and blue water recommendations

[E39mad]

As someone who was in a crew who hand steered a boat across the Atlantic in the list of attributes above I would add a yacht that tracks easily and requires little input to keep it in a straight line. It uses less power for an autopilot and less wear on the steering system or wind vane if have one. Especially important if just the two of them.

 

[Frank Holden]

Another vote for Westerlys but I would say that wouldn't I.
Maybe a bit pricey https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/1995-westerly-oceanlord-8484610/
but if one is willing to travel https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/1989-westerly-oceanlord-8638301/

Both have 'features' I would remove on day 1, starting with those davits on the Southampton one. Oh, and also the MD17D .
Worth looking at any that appear for sale near where you live.

Couple of points re what you need.
If you plan to cross oceans you would want a windvane.
Watermaker? I have found no need and have done several 44 day passages on my Sealord with 400 litres of FW. Just don't have any long haired young ladies in your crew.

Several reasons the later Westerlies were produced in quite small numbers. They fell into hole in public perception between the alleged higher quality of the Scandinavian boats and the cheapness of the French product.
They also suffered from the strong UKP. In their last year Westerly only managed to sell one yacht into continental Europe.

They have their issues over and above Westerly Droop. List available on request.

 

[Slowtack]

US prices worth a look..

 

[Sybarite]

Amel Sharki...

 

[bitbaltic]

I think that’s a very fair comment. However, I still wouldn’t want to start sailing ocean passages in that Bavaria. I know that other people have done it and other people will continue to sail them but they are built down to a budget and more importantly the sailing characteristics really don’t fill me with confidence.

As you know, Gillian and I are in the middle of an extended voyage on our boat. We are in the fortunate position of being able to put the boat ashore and fly home for periods but we’ve still got a good idea of what other people are sailing. I’ve also sailed ocean passages and in the Caribbean et cetera for a few years so I speak with some experience. There seems to be a mixture of boats and people doing it. There are some very old and tatty boots. The sea gypsy type who are on a shoestring and are often at anchor for weeks at a time in remote areas, presumably eating their beans and peas and rice. Then there seems to be another class of long-distance sailor. These are the wealthy young or not so young who have large expensive monohulls or catamarans. Lots of these boats seem to be at least 50 or 60 feet long (the catamarans perhaps being slightly smaller lengths overall). We could look on with green eyes but frankly, the view that we have from our old Westerly is exactly the same as theirs and our boat is comfortable and didn’t cost upwards of 1 million.

Whilst what others have said about the crew, it’s perfectly true, somethings like a water-maker and enough electricity to sustain you and your fridge and freezer makes life infinitely more comfortable than the squalid living one might have on a boat without such niceties. After all the OP did say in comfort!

The best advice seems to be to approach this adventure with an open mind.

As for sources of boats, there are all sorts of possibilities. Like picking up a boat in Panama or Gibraltar, or even perhaps the Canaries. Wherever peoples dreams have ended?

For example I noticed in Las Palmas, Gran Canaria, that there is a pontoon near the Marina office that was full of boats that had been impounded and are going to be sold. (We wondered why but didn’t ask. Drug smuggling? Abandoned? Failure to pay Marina fees?) Some of them looked very capable and from such stock perhaps there is a bargain to be hard?

Seems curious advice. Buy a westerly, or a boat of no known provenance which may have been impounded, abandoned, or both, for considerable time; but whatever you do don’t buy a well-found Bavaria.

Forum advice in a nutshell really.

 

[capnsensible]

I do wonder sometimes if us salty sea dgs over think things.

A couple, in their 3o's, 100k and a year to sort the boat out. Buy cheap, spend not a lot and get out there and enjoy it! Don't need loadsa hotel conveniences......

It's kinda what we did on our old Moody 33 and it worked so well that we stayed on her for over 22 years.

Definitely for windvane steering. Our first Carib and back we hand steered a lot. Just the 2 of us for lots of it.

I've delivered a lot of yachts long distance. Never had a watermaker or a problem with a broken watermaker. Just take stacks of bottles and a couple of jerrycans. KISS.

Nor much in the way of must have latest electronics. Plotter? Great. Couple of handheld as back up? Great.

Charts and pilots yeah. Imray answer most needs at good cost. Up to the navigator but works for me.

And ah, Bavarias. I'm happy with all the ones I've delivered. Bigger ones right enough but simple and robust.

Whatever your couple decide, good luck to them and happy voyaging. Beats the arris off sitting about talking!

 

[john_morris_uk]

Seems curious advice. Buy a westerly, or a boat of no known provenance which may have been impounded, abandoned, or both, for considerable time; but whatever you do don’t buy a well-found Bavaria.

Forum advice in a nutshell really.

I didn’t say only a Westerly. I’ll support Tradewind, Sigma 36, Moody and almost any number of boats within budget.

I’ve done a fair bit of examining and sailing on Bavarias of the age and model referred to. It’s one one of the few ‘cruising’ yachts I know that can broach in a gust when going upwind. It’s possible to sail them but there are so many boats with far better sailing manners. The kit on board might be good but other well equipment boats are around.

Don’t dismiss the impounded boat idea. I knew someone who picked up an absolute bargain through those channels.

 

[laika]

even at the rather high price would cost less than trying to buy, say an old Westerly or Moody and equip it to the same level.

The advice that buying a boat that’s equipped to a good standard will be cheaper than buying a wreck and bringing it up to spec is obviously sound, but 40+ year old boats are unlikely to have all-original kit and I don’t think you can generalise about what they do or do not have. The engine, rig, sails and most of the electronics on my westerly are a lot newer than the 2002 vintage of the bavaria referenced in post #5

 

[Wansworth]

I do wonder sometimes if us salty sea dgs over think things.

A couple, in their 3o's, 100k and a year to sort the boat out. Buy cheap, spend not a lot and get out there and enjoy it! Don't need loadsa hotel conveniences......

It's kinda what we did on our old Moody 33 and it worked so well that we stayed on her for over 22 years.

Definitely for windvane steering. Our first Carib and back we hand steered a lot. Just the 2 of us for lots of it.

I've delivered a lot of yachts long distance. Never had a watermaker or a problem with a broken watermaker. Just take stacks of bottles and a couple of jerrycans. KISS.

Nor much in the way of must have latest electronics. Plotter? Great. Couple of handheld as back up? Great.

Charts and pilots yeah. Imray answer most needs at good cost. Up to the navigator but works for me.

And ah, Bavarias. I'm happy with all the ones I've delivered. Bigger ones right enough but simple and robust.

Whatever your couple decide, good luck to them and happy voyaging. Beats the arris off sitting about talking!

So speaks the oracle……..forums just generate talking instead of doing

 

[Wansworth]

I assume there must be some people who dare to set off without the benedication of the forum

 

[Kelpie]

Watermaker? I have found no need and have done several 44 day passages on my Sealord with 400 litres of FW. Just don't have any long haired young ladies in your crew.

My desire for a watermaker is nothing to do with passage making. I don't think it's wise to be relying on a watermaker for a long passage, you should carry enough water in your tanks plus a very healthy reserve in bottles/jerry cans.

But once you're out here living in the tropics, you're going to be in and out of the sea several times a day to stay cool and sane.
With effectively unlimited water, you can have a quick rinse off after every dip. When you have to ration the water, you end up having one shower at the end of the day. And salty skin, clothes, and everything else.
A watermaker is far from essential, but for long term life aboard it would definitely be very nice to have.

 

[Kelpie]

Oh the other thing I would look for, or more likely add, is canvas work for shade. Not just a bimini but full covers for the deck, and side panels that block the light at lower angles too. I've seen some really smart setups which zip on to the side of the boom, or which use the spinny pole as a ridge for a foredeck tent.

It's one of those things where you can improvise using tarps and beach towels, but after the twentieth time you've rigged it up, or the fiftieth time it's flapped in the middle of the night and woken you up, you start to get a bit jealous of everybody else with their smart well fitted bespoke canvas.

 

[Wansworth]

in Slocums book it shows Spray with a total full cover ……..but whilst on the subject what is the attraction of the Carebeaan……as a sort of destination along way away I have to admit in the pictures it doesn’t seem that attractive

 

[Kelpie]

in Slocums book it shows Spray with a total full cover ……..but whilst on the subject what is the attraction of the Carebeaan……as a sort of destination along way away I have to admit in the pictures it doesn’t seem that attractive

The sailing is sublime. Beam reaching in 15-20kt everywhere. Decent anchorages all over the place. Clear water with lots to see. Minimal hassle and crime if you avoid the known hot spots.
It's not perfect. Provisioning can be expensive and limited in some places. The heat gets to you after a while. And we miss the history and culture of Europe a bit.

 

[Wansworth]

The sailing is sublime. Beam reaching in 15-20kt everywhere. Decent anchorages all over the place. Clear water with lots to see. Minimal hassle and crime if you avoid the known hot spots.
It's not perfect. Provisioning can be expensive and limited in some places. The heat gets to you after a while. And we miss the history and culture of Europe a bit.

Thanks……..we have beam reaching in the Galician rias

 

[Tranona]

The advice that buying a boat that’s equipped to a good standard will be cheaper than buying a wreck and bringing it up to spec is obviously sound, but 40+ year old boats are unlikely to have all-original kit and I don’t think you can generalise about what they do or do not have. The engine, rig, sails and most of the electronics on my westerly are a lot newer than the 2002 vintage of the bavaria referenced in post #5

That may well be true of the ones that people like you own - but not necessarily the ones that are for sale. Most boats come up for sale because the owners can't face the cost of upgrading, replacing etc. They have had their use out of the boat and pass it on to the next person. Probably just what this couple will do after their trip. Rare to see a boat for sale that has just finished its refit and not been used.

The Bavaria had its refit in 2018/9 and several updates since then. It may well be in the category of not actually having gone very far since given the restrictions since then. Certainly looks good in the photos. The asking price is about £10k above the norm for that model - but you could not buy an average boat and bring it up to that ready to go standard for £10k.

if they want to use more of their £100k to get something bigger and more like the Weaterly type then this is worth looking at
yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2001-bavaria-40-ocean-8923344/

Different from the simpler Cruiser Bavarias but the same simple and robust construction.

I suppose the point I am really making is that there is a much wider choice of boats than the old favourites that get pushed here and some of those that get dismissed out of hand by some seem to do fine in the type of use envisaged.

 

[Kelpie]

Thanks……..we have beam reaching in the Galician rias

I enjoyed my brief time in the rias. Wish I'd had longer.
Not so many orcas over this side...

 

[Frank Holden]

My desire for a watermaker is nothing to do with passage making. I don't think it's wise to be relying on a watermaker for a long passage, you should carry enough water in your tanks plus a very healthy reserve in bottles/jerry cans.

But once you're out here living in the tropics, you're going to be in and out of the sea several times a day to stay cool and sane.
With effectively unlimited water, you can have a quick rinse off after every dip. When you have to ration the water, you end up having one shower at the end of the day. And salty skin, clothes, and everything else.
A watermaker is far from essential, but for long term life aboard it would definitely be very nice to have.

Tropical top end of my homeland has salt water crocs, bottom half has great whites. Chile has the chilly Humbolt. I'm not a great one for swimming in the sea.

 

[lustyd]

in Slocums book it shows Spray with a total full cover ……..but whilst on the subject what is the attraction of the Carebeaan……as a sort of destination along way away I have to admit in the pictures it doesn’t seem that attractive

I’ve always assumed it’s at least in part easier for visas. The Med has the Schengen issue for anyone not in the EU and that’s a lot of coastline to cover in 90 days with Africa being the only other option. The Caribbean seems to offer enough variety that you can get by on a tourist visa then move on.

 

[john_morris_uk]

That may well be true of the ones that people like you own - but not necessarily the ones that are for sale. Most boats come up for sale because the owners can't face the cost of upgrading, replacing etc. They have had their use out of the boat and pass it on to the next person. Probably just what this couple will do after their trip. Rare to see a boat for sale that has just finished its refit and not been used.

The Bavaria had its refit in 2018/9 and several updates since then. It may well be in the category of not actually having gone very far since given the restrictions since then. Certainly looks good in the photos. The asking price is about £10k above the norm for that model - but you could not buy an average boat and bring it up to that ready to go standard for £10k.

if they want to use more of their £100k to get something bigger and more like the Weaterly type then this is worth looking at
yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2001-bavaria-40-ocean-8923344/

Different from the simpler Cruiser Bavarias but the same simple and robust construction.

I suppose the point I am really making is that there is a much wider choice of boats than the old favourites that get pushed here and some of those that get dismissed out of hand by some seem to do fine in the type of use envisaged.

I agree with much of that although boats come up for sale for lots of reasons. (Bereavement, family breakdown etc annd not just ‘worn out’) The Bavaria you’ve referenced is not one of the ill mannered ones. Nice spec and if I’d were them I’d be looking at it closely and perhaps making an offer if all seemed ok.