Liveaboard and blue water recommendations

[magicol]

Some advice needed, please. My son, well into his thirties and his girlfriend are planning a two or three year sabbatical from their careers. They want to buy a liveaboard yacht providing plenty of comfort but also capable of a transatlantic passage and serious passage making. Both are competent sailors but this is a different level so the plan is to buy the boat in the next 12 months then spend up to a year preparing themselves and it for this adventure. They will have rental income from their flats to cover living expenses and combined capital of around £100,000 to buy the boat and pay for any upgrades and repairs. I alternate between concern and envy.
So…what yacht would you recommend? And what advice, if any, would you suggest I offer them?

 

[john_morris_uk]

Some advice needed, please. My son, well into his thirties and his girlfriend are planning a two or three year sabbatical from their careers. They want to buy a liveaboard yacht providing plenty of comfort but also capable of a transatlantic passage and serious passage making. Both are competent sailors but this is a different level so the plan is to buy the boat in the next 12 months then spend up to a year preparing themselves and it for this adventure. They will have rental income from their flats to cover living expenses and combined capital of around £100,000 to buy the boat and pay for any upgrades and repairs. I alternate between concern and envy.
So…what yacht would you recommend? And what advice, if any, would you suggest I offer them?

Whatever the boat I’d suggest not spending more than about £60k on the boat purchase if it needs fettling. Something about 40’ will suit them but they’ll need to budget for potentially upgrading sails and rig and adding solar/generator/watermaker/ dinghy & outboard/ electronics as necessary etc etc.

I’m biased but a Westerly Oceanlord or a Moody is a much better bet than a lightweight modern design. Their budget doesn’t stretch to a big catamaran or a Swan or Oyster so choose something older in good condition and up grade kit as necessary.

Keep some cash back for repairs on the way as it’s no coincidence that blue water sailing is often called ‘mending your boat in nice places’.

 

[Birdseye]

So…what yacht would you recommend? And what advice, if any, would you suggest I offer them?

a boat that has already done the trip and is fully equipped. Advice to a son - dont waste your breath.

 

[Wansworth]

Just stand aside and help as required…..they are old enough to make any decisions and that is part of the whole thing,you can cross the sea with very basic kit or go totally overboard tech wise……the more complicated the boat the more chance of breakdowns.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

done

next?

 

[john_morris_uk]

done

next?

I don’t like the way those Bavarias sail.
It’ll need a bit of work but how about a cheeky offer on Westerly Sealord for sale UK, Westerly boats for sale, Westerly used boat sales, Westerly Sailing Yachts For Sale 1983 Westerly Sealord 39 - Apollo Duck
(I suspect there’s no interior pictures because it’s a such a mess and it will need all the headlinings replacing!)

 

[john_morris_uk]

If they don’t mind something slightly smaller then this is extremely tidy. Add some solar and a Hydrovane etc and it’ll take you anywhere.

Westerly Oceanquest for sale UK, Westerly boats for sale, Westerly used boat sales, Westerly Sailing Yachts For Sale 1998 Westerly Oceanquest 35 AC - Apollo Duck

 

[E39mad]

Vancouver 36 or 38 if you can find one.
Warrior 38/40 by Trident Marine
Bowman 40 probably out of budget but may get lucky.

All extremely capable boats, generally over rigged with good size tanks (fuel and water) that will not be too affected by adding all that "liveaboard" and long passage making weight.

No doubt there are others but imho avoid mass production boats - whilst they might be capable their remit is generally to charter out with as many berths as possible.

 

[DoubleEnder]

I’d advise them to join this forum.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I don’t like the way those Bavarias sail.
It’ll need a bit of work but how about a cheeky offer on Westerly Sealord for sale UK, Westerly boats for sale, Westerly used boat sales, Westerly Sailing Yachts For Sale 1983 Westerly Sealord 39 - Apollo Duck
(I suspect there’s no interior pictures because it’s a such a mess and it will need all the headlinings replacing!)

Lots of pictures of this one on boat-shed. Bit of a mess but headlining not a problem. Rust spots on the cabin roof and some original systems (1983) could =£££

 

[Buck Turgidson]

If they don’t mind something slightly smaller then this is extremely tidy. Add some solar and a Hydrovane etc and it’ll take you anywhere.

Westerly Oceanquest for sale UK, Westerly boats for sale, Westerly used boat sales, Westerly Sailing Yachts For Sale 1998 Westerly Oceanquest 35 AC - Apollo Duck

Better but lacks the wind vane steering and water maker of my suggestion.

 

[doug748]

I agree with Wandsworth post 4.

Plus one solid gold tip: Get a very good agent to look after the flats, not a cheap one.

.

 

[Kelpie]

The actual boat design doesn't really matter as much as you might think.
For a short term prospect like this, you want something very mainstream that will be easy to sell on again.

Having said that, you want big water tanks, sensible sail handling equipment, and space for a decent amount of solar plus, ideally, a RIB. Although for a 2-3yr trip a good quality soft dinghy will probably last the trip if not abused.

What's the intended itinerary?

 

[Kelpie]

Duplicate post deleted

 

[Tranona]

The actual boat design doesn't really matter as much as you might think.
For a short term prospect like this, you want something very mainstream that will be easy to sell on again.

Having said that, you want big water tanks, sensible sail handling equipment, and space for a decent amount of solar plus, ideally, a RIB. Although for a 2-3yr trip a good quality soft dinghy will probably last the trip if not abused.

What's the intended itinerary?

+1.

As you see many will recommend 30+ year old British boats which were the in thing in those days and are still popular with a minority. It has to be a minority because they were built in penny numbers and the choice available on the market is very limited. It is not necessary to restrict yourself to those sorts of boats as the majority who do this sort of thing choose something different.

The Bavaria in post#5 is a good example. extremely well equipped, seemingly good condition and even at the rather high price would cost less than trying to buy, say an old Westerly or Moody and equip it to the same level. Europeans doing the same thing never really had access to the old British boats, so to them choosing a boat like the Bavaria would be quite normal. You see them (and equivalents from Beneteau, Jeanneau, Dufour etc) all round the world doing exactly the same thing as the Brits in their choice of boats - and of course many Brits like the owner of this one have chosen differently.

Best advice is to keep an open mind about boat choice - success comes more from the crew than the boat, buy as good and well equipped boat as possible - refits and upgrades gobble money. This won't be a lifetime purchase - it is a means to an end, and when the end comes they need to be able to sell it and move on.

Last bit of advice. This is not untrod ground. There is masses of information, blogs, books, magazines, youtubes forums like this to look at for ideas. The overriding message is that there is no "right" way of going about it, just patterns

 

[Wansworth]

There is almost too much information and choice on this subject and the temptation to spend to buy this mythical ocean crosser is great.It’s the crew that will make the cruise a success .Advice from a failed world girdler would be max 12 metres a newish reliable engine ,capacity for fuel and water as mentioned and a boat steady at anchour……and don’t have too many deadlines to meet……..of course it’s not unknown for one of the crew not to like sailing away from their life ashore when it comes to the big step

 

[john_morris_uk]

+1.

As you see many will recommend 30+ year old British boats which were the in thing in those days and are still popular with a minority. It has to be a minority because they were built in penny numbers and the choice available on the market is very limited. It is not necessary to restrict yourself to those sorts of boats as the majority who do this sort of thing choose something different.

The Bavaria in post#5 is a good example. extremely well equipped, seemingly good condition and even at the rather high price would cost less than trying to buy, say an old Westerly or Moody and equip it to the same level. Europeans doing the same thing never really had access to the old British boats, so to them choosing a boat like the Bavaria would be quite normal. You see them (and equivalents from Beneteau, Jeanneau, Dufour etc) all round the world doing exactly the same thing as the Brits in their choice of boats - and of course many Brits like the owner of this one have chosen differently.

Best advice is to keep an open mind about boat choice - success comes more from the crew than the boat, buy as good and well equipped boat as possible - refits and upgrades gobble money. This won't be a lifetime purchase - it is a means to an end, and when the end comes they need to be able to sell it and move on.

Last bit of advice. This is not untrod ground. There is masses of information, blogs, books, magazines, youtubes forums like this to look at for ideas. The overriding message is that there is no "right" way of going about it, just patterns

I think that’s a very fair comment. However, I still wouldn’t want to start sailing ocean passages in that Bavaria. I know that other people have done it and other people will continue to sail them but they are built down to a budget and more importantly the sailing characteristics really don’t fill me with confidence.

As you know, Gillian and I are in the middle of an extended voyage on our boat. We are in the fortunate position of being able to put the boat ashore and fly home for periods but we’ve still got a good idea of what other people are sailing. I’ve also sailed ocean passages and in the Caribbean et cetera for a few years so I speak with some experience. There seems to be a mixture of boats and people doing it. There are some very old and tatty boots. The sea gypsy type who are on a shoestring and are often at anchor for weeks at a time in remote areas, presumably eating their beans and peas and rice. Then there seems to be another class of long-distance sailor. These are the wealthy young or not so young who have large expensive monohulls or catamarans. Lots of these boats seem to be at least 50 or 60 feet long (the catamarans perhaps being slightly smaller lengths overall). We could look on with green eyes but frankly, the view that we have from our old Westerly is exactly the same as theirs and our boat is comfortable and didn’t cost upwards of 1 million.

Whilst what others have said about the crew, it’s perfectly true, somethings like a water-maker and enough electricity to sustain you and your fridge and freezer makes life infinitely more comfortable than the squalid living one might have on a boat without such niceties. After all the OP did say in comfort!

The best advice seems to be to approach this adventure with an open mind.

As for sources of boats, there are all sorts of possibilities. Like picking up a boat in Panama or Gibraltar, or even perhaps the Canaries. Wherever peoples dreams have ended?

For example I noticed in Las Palmas, Gran Canaria, that there is a pontoon near the Marina office that was full of boats that had been impounded and are going to be sold. (We wondered why but didn’t ask. Drug smuggling? Abandoned? Failure to pay Marina fees?) Some of them looked very capable and from such stock perhaps there is a bargain to be hard?

 

[Kelpie]

For example I noticed in Las Palmas, Gran Canaria, that there is a pontoon near the Marina office that was full of boats that had been impounded and are going to be sold. (We wondered why but didn’t ask. Drug smuggling? Abandoned? Failure to pay Marina fees?) Some of them looked very capable and from such stock perhaps there is a bargain to be hard?

As I understand, most of those are impounded awaiting either criminal proceedings or insurance claims. I wouldn't hold my breath.

There's a lot of boats for sale in Martinique which struck me as good value, but of course they could be much more tired than they appear. And it's harder and more expensive to fix up a boat out here than it is in the UK.

I totally agree with you about the range of boats and budgets. We're definitely at the lower end, having spent about a third of the OP's budget. If I was to go again, I would probably add a watermaker, but other than I wouldn't really change anything.

 

[Tranona]

I think that’s a very fair comment. However, I still wouldn’t want to start sailing ocean passages in that Bavaria. I know that other people have done it and other people will continue to sail them but they are built down to a budget and more importantly the sailing characteristics really don’t fill me with confidence.

Despite you not liking them they sold literally in the thousands and while they were low cost they are very robust. (remember I owned a similar 37 for 15 years from new and half of that chartering). It is not you that is making the choice and other people find their sailing ability perfectly satisfactory. Looks like that particular boat has been places and if the photos and description are accurate looks pretty good for over 20 years old. It is not so active now, but the Bavaria forum used to be full of contributors who took boats from that era to just the same sort of places that the few that are able to own older style boats.

For £50k I would take that boat any day over any Westerly or Moody. Just think of the amount of money and time you put into your boat in preparation for your adventure. For a youngish couple taking a few years out a boat is a means to an end and to my mind getting a boat that is near ready to go is the overriding requirement and one like this fills the bill.

 

[Goldie]

Unless they absolutely NEED to have the boat in U.K. for preparation in which case it needs to be U.K. VAT paid, then look abroad too. There are a lot of countries with boats for sale out there and a much bigger market when it’s time to sell.