Lithium battery installation after rash purchase???

[Pete7]

The Superpack batteries have Bluetooth. Internal BMS with cell balancing

Victron aren't the only ones to supply some models like this. Many of the cheaper brands have no external communication. Also some of the better long standing manufacturers like Battleborn, also supply batteries without communications. The problem then is users can't modify the BMS settings, which I want to do. Secondly you can't really tell if the cells are nicely balanced or completely out of sinc with each other. For these reasons I won't buy a battery that I can't see cell data or change the batteries settings.

I will ignore the nonsense about flying rules as I just can't see me flying somewhere with a couple of 100Ah batteries in my luggage

Pete

 

[Pete7]

I'm certainly tempted but nah.....

Thank you, lets get back to the real subject in hand and those that wish to continue using lead acid, well that's fine by me.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Victron aren't the only ones to supply some models like this. Many of the cheaper brands have no external communication. Also some of the better long standing manufacturers like Battleborn, also supply batteries without communications. The problem then is users can't modify the BMS settings, which I want to do. Secondly you can't really tell if the cells are nicely balanced or completely out of sinc with each other. For these reasons I won't buy a battery that I can't see cell data or change the batteries settings.

I will ignore the nonsense about flying rules as I just can't see me flying somewhere with a couple of 100Ah batteries in my luggage

Pete

One man's nonsense .........
I see that the victron warranty is the same for either type with caveat of proper installation which I guess is easier to prove with a drop in. Is cell imbalance a thing with these packs with built in BMS? I note victron say it balances the cells automatically. As I'm only just coming around to the possibility of fitting Lithium and the only real benefit for me is replacing a 60kg monster with a 15kg battery I haven't been keeping up with real world lithium use as house power. I can't find much feedback about these batteries online which would tend to indicate people have nothing to complain about them apart from the price!

 

[Pete7]

One man's nonsense .........

Suit yourself. Did you mean to insult?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Suit yourself. Did you mean to insult?

did you?

 

[Chris_Robb]

did you?

Come on boys, shake hands! an continue what is a pretty rational thread in comparison to other media. I have learnt something from this having been 100% against "Lithium". What I take away so far is that Its capable of being pretty safe - I nearly had a major LA conflagration by leaving 1 of a pair of 80watt solar panel's up, controlled by a Victron MMPT controller. I now would not leave anything connected over a 6 months winter storage - and arrange with the yard to charge once every 2 months..... if needed - but that another issue! When I did this, I came back and found they had left them on for 2 months....... they were throughly over charged and totally buggered. (technical term)

I dont have a yacht anymore sop it academic for me, but I am interested in open minds but I am also not interested in shutting down contrary discussion... lets no go the road of denial of science as in certain other unmentionable subjects......

 

[lustyd]

shutting down contrary discussion

There's contrary discussion, and then there's something akin to flat earther nonsense. It's not unreasonable to tell the flat earthers to shut their cake holes and go elsewhere. I imagine the rebuttals will only get more robust as time goes on. There's no reason for anyone to be spreading FUD about LiFePo4 and fires in 2024, and there's even less reason to post more than once when corrected.

 

[geem]

...---...

did you?

There are people who have been running ithium successfully on this forum for some time. They may be described as lithium anoraks. I will include myself in that description. If you want to learn something, listen to those that are doing it successfully and have advice to offer. It's a way easier approach than wading in, all guns blazing shooting anything that moves

 

[Buck Turgidson]

...---...
There are people who have been running ithium successfully on this forum for some time. They may be described as lithium anoraks. I will include myself in that description. If you want to learn something, listen to those that are doing it successfully and have advice to offer. It's a way easier approach than wading in, all guns blazing shooting anything that moves

Well I came with a question but stayed for the banter as no one could offer any insight.
And I don't need a lecture on how to learn something from someone who thinks LFP are not a type of Lithium ion battery!

But cheers anyway.

 

[geem]

Well I came with a question but stayed for the banter as no one could offer any insight.
And I don't need a lecture on how to learn something from someone who thinks LFP are not a type of Lithium ion battery!

But cheers anyway.

Really?

 

[Pete7]

One man's nonsense .........
I see that the victron warranty is the same for either type with caveat of proper installation which I guess is easier to prove with a drop in. Is cell imbalance a thing with these packs with built in BMS? I note victron say it balances the cells automatically. As I'm only just coming around to the possibility of fitting Lithium and the only real benefit for me is replacing a 60kg monster with a 15kg battery I haven't been keeping up with real world lithium use as house power. I can't find much feedback about these batteries online which would tend to indicate people have nothing to complain about them apart from the price!

I will try one more time.

The problem is if you don't have any external comms, the BMS may be balancing well but without seeing the cell voltages and the delta between the cells, there is no way of being sure. Victron have a good reputation and suspect they ensure that whoever builds their batteries has a quality regime in place. So cell imbalance shouldn't be a problem.

However, regardless of manufacturer if the cells are not well matched what happens is during charging as the cell voltages approach 3.4v, one cell will run away quickly charging to 3.65v, leaving the other cells behind. This means the battery doesn't achieve full capacity and won't spend long enough above 3.4v per cell to balance properly, before the BMS disconnects to protect the one run away cell at 3.65v. Trying to balance at a lower voltages doesn't work, been there and it didn't help. Those who build their own batteries can charge the cells in parallel to start with. Once the cells are nearly full then the battery is assembled in series and the charged fully. If one cell runs away an active balancer in addition to the BMS can be used to bring the pack back into balance. With a "drop in" battery this is clearly more difficult to detect if the warranty is to be retained by not opening up the battery. This is were the external communications are useful to see cell voltages and what the BMS is doing. Therefore I think the ability to see what is going on very important for us.

We did have a problem with one battery from Sterling, who promptly exchanged it without quibble under the 5 year warranty. The current 3 Sterling batteries don't have a problem. However, if someone bought raw cells or a drop in battery directly from China, well good luck with that. There are plenty of cells on FB Marketplace which makes you wonder why are they for sale?

The difference in weight is a real bonus, our 120Ah is noticeably lighter than the 85Ah flooded lead acid. The house bank could take every charging source on board, solar, alternator and shore power together without a problem all the way up to nearly full. What this means in use is that power generated by our solar panels is all absorbed by the batteries rather than previously were the increasingly higher internal battery resistance meant much slower charging. Add the ability to withstand heavy discharge loads repeatedly makes even a small bank eminently suitable for electric cooking in our case, along with a bit of a science project this summer powering a cheap trolling motor in place of the small petrol outboard. Charging LifePO4 by generator is also much quicker which is a real bonus for those who need to do this.

Pete