masterofnone
Active member
Looking at buying a raft. Normally cruise with 1+1. Boat has7 berths. Is a 6 man raft too big for 2?
Liferafts .too big?
- Thread starter masterofnone
- Start date
Sea Change
Active member
Seems to depend who you ask.
On my sea survival courses, it was stressed that you didn't want to underload a liferaft for stability reasons.
However when I spoke to Viking about this, they said if in any doubt it was best to go up a size, and that stability wasn't a concern.
On my sea survival courses, it was stressed that you didn't want to underload a liferaft for stability reasons.
However when I spoke to Viking about this, they said if in any doubt it was best to go up a size, and that stability wasn't a concern.
masterofnone
Active member
Thanks
Laser310
Well-known member
i would say you pretty much always want to go up a size if possible.
They are incredibly cramped and claustrophobic when loaded to the limit; e.g. 6 in a 6-man life raft. 12 in a 12 is almost unbearable, especially if it is warm - everyone is in wet foul weather gear.., and it's just really awful in there.
I would go 4-man for two, probably 6-man for 4, and so on.., or maybe bigger, depending.
If you haven't done so, it's worth doing one of the safety classes in which you can experience climbing up into one from the water, and get a feel for how crowded they are when full. You generally can't even straighten your legs. I think I've done the class four times now.
While a greatly under-loaded life raft may have stability problems, it's worth noting that most cases of abandoning to life rafts aren't in storms. It's fire, hitting a floating object, losing a rudder etc.
Sure, you may experience rough conditions while you wait, but probably not to the limit of stability. They do have water-filled compartments on the bottom for stability - at least the offshore models do.
also, in the safety classes you can learn how to right an overturned life raft.
Last edited:
Sandy
Well-known member
I've always understood that smaller is better.
On my RYA Sea Survival course we played sardines and had eight in a four person raft. Four in an eight person raft gives you a lot of space keep warm.
P.S. Rent never purchase.
On my RYA Sea Survival course we played sardines and had eight in a four person raft. Four in an eight person raft gives you a lot of space keep warm.
P.S. Rent never purchase.
Neeves
Well-known member
I agree with Sandy. You will need to service the LR, most of the time, inshore sailing, you will never need it but when (or in the very unlikely chance you do need it you want to be sure it has been serviced.
Rent
Rent
geem
Well-known member
We used to have a 6 man ocean canister liferaft. It was seriously heavy. Just two of us onboard normally. Very happy to drop to a 4 man when it came time to replace. We have seen ours inflated when it was serviced. The 4 man is about right for two people, space wise. Deploying a 6 man lifersft in a storm at night would be physically hard to do unless it's in mount that will auto deploy
Refueler
Well-known member
Yes - simple answer.
Having used various rafts and experienced what they are like in a seway - NOT a swimming pool !! Believe me - they are sickening .... and if not loaded well - are bl***y awful to be in.
For your use - a 2 man is good enough - but because of the possibility of more people - then maybe a 4 man is advised. But honest answer - 6 man is serious kit and for you too big.
Slowboat35
Well-known member
I'd suggest that comfort is hardly top of the list on requirements for a liferaft.
No 1 is deployability. Liferafts are seriously heavy, trying to launch a 6 man with one or two is likely to be a struggle - a 4 man is far easier, though still a huge weight to manhandle solo. Rail/transom mountings make a lot of sense.
No 2 is surely safety on the water. Not only stability - clearly more weight must = better stability so 2 in a 4 man must be more stable than 2 in a 6, but also the ability to right the thing if it flips. I agree that if you anticipate spending days in it (eg ocean crossings) then space is going to help a lot, but even then it is a last-ditch survival aid that must simply work, not a luxury item...
Re p.o.b. If you don't sail with more than 4 on board it seems daft to have a 6 man liferaft - but if you occasionally do go offshore with that many then maybe. If only ever 4 offshore but occasionally 6 on shorter or coastal sails (where rescue is likely to be much quicker) maybe that's another matter.
It's very much down to one's personal judgement and assessment of risk.
No 1 is deployability. Liferafts are seriously heavy, trying to launch a 6 man with one or two is likely to be a struggle - a 4 man is far easier, though still a huge weight to manhandle solo. Rail/transom mountings make a lot of sense.
No 2 is surely safety on the water. Not only stability - clearly more weight must = better stability so 2 in a 4 man must be more stable than 2 in a 6, but also the ability to right the thing if it flips. I agree that if you anticipate spending days in it (eg ocean crossings) then space is going to help a lot, but even then it is a last-ditch survival aid that must simply work, not a luxury item...
Re p.o.b. If you don't sail with more than 4 on board it seems daft to have a 6 man liferaft - but if you occasionally do go offshore with that many then maybe. If only ever 4 offshore but occasionally 6 on shorter or coastal sails (where rescue is likely to be much quicker) maybe that's another matter.
It's very much down to one's personal judgement and assessment of risk.
Refueler
Well-known member
Correct ...
There are two things to take in mind with rafts :
Stability
Keeping warm.
BOTH are covered by NOT going up in size ...
Ask yourself a question ... ships carry not only Lifeboats - but also Liferafts ... WHY do they carry lots of small rafts ? Instead of just a few large jobs ? For those two factors.
Having actually used rafts at sea - not in a swimming pool .. believe me - you never forget !
ashtead
Well-known member
If just going cross channel a 4 person in a valise by say Seago but do think where you will keep it on deck when sailing if not in canister. As said look at weights -even a4 person valise is a lump to manoverve etc so how strong is weakest crew and could they launch if you were injured say
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
Modern life rafts are designed to be stable when empty, so I would not worry too much about oversizing a life raft if you buy an ISO 9650 design.
johnalison
Well-known member
For me it would depend on whether I was doing offshore or ocean sailing. You would be unlucky not to be picked up within a day in home waters but might have to live in the raft for weeks in the ocean.
srm
Well-known member
Its a long time ago so hopefully raft design has improved. Yacht with two man crew and 8 person raft sank during delivery trip across Biscay. One man drowned - in the raft. Survivor described raft as rolling like an empty oil drum on the surface.
Shetland fishing boat changed mode of working and reduced crew size. Had to change liferafts for smaller capacity ones.
When I was running STCW sea survival courses the crew weight was required as part of the rafts stability. Yes they are crowded, but they are designed to help your survival.
Shetland fishing boat changed mode of working and reduced crew size. Had to change liferafts for smaller capacity ones.
When I was running STCW sea survival courses the crew weight was required as part of the rafts stability. Yes they are crowded, but they are designed to help your survival.
geem
Well-known member
Very unlikely you would be in a raft for weeks if you have PLBs, EPIRB, Inreach, etc. Hwve a look at marine traffic in thr oceans. Covered in ships these days
bedouin
Well-known member
If there are only ever 2 of you go for a 2 man - if you regularly have 3+ then go for a 4 man. I wouldn't think of a 6 unless you intend regularly to go offshore with 6. I think in an emergency (and it will be) you can fit 6 in a 4 man.
But it isn't a big deal - if you are a typical leisure sailor you aren't going be encountering the conditions in which it makes any difference. You can talk about the relative pluses and minuses of bigger or smaller if you are caught in F11 or likely to be adrift for 117 days but the chances of either happening is vanishingly small (do buy a PLB if you don't have one).
There may be a lot to be said for "rent not buy" - or buying small and being prepared to rent larger for the odd time you need it.
But it isn't a big deal - if you are a typical leisure sailor you aren't going be encountering the conditions in which it makes any difference. You can talk about the relative pluses and minuses of bigger or smaller if you are caught in F11 or likely to be adrift for 117 days but the chances of either happening is vanishingly small (do buy a PLB if you don't have one).
There may be a lot to be said for "rent not buy" - or buying small and being prepared to rent larger for the odd time you need it.
Supertramp
Well-known member
I have a four person Seago and usually sail with 1-3 on board. But my biggest concern would be deploying. OK if sinking in a calm! But in real conditions I would struggle to manouver it to a place to inflate free from rigging. Alone I would probably choose the inflated dinghy in davits! But I am sailing UK coastal waters so the liferaft is more a reassurance than a used piece of kit.
srm
Well-known member
Southern Ireland to Terceira, Azores. Once clear of coastal traffic turned on dual channel radar target enhancer audio alarm. Not one beep until within sight of Terceira. Also, nothing seen on AIS during the passage.
Only encounters were some "heavy breathing" one night, assumed to be a whale close by, and a pod of dolphins near the Azores.
Last edited:
geem
Well-known member
Laser310
Well-known member
sure - but hose screenshots make it look a lot more crowded than it actually is.
those ship icons are probably a couple of miles long.
anyway - for those worried about being cold; there is no reason four people in a 6 man life raft can't huddle together if they are cold. But six in a 6-man can't get farther apart if they are too warm - which I found to be terrible in the class. Of course, being cold is more likely than being too warm.
but, especially if you are in cold waters, select one with an insulated floor. Often these are a double floor, and I think they also incorporate some of the reflective and other technology used for inflatable camping sleeping pads. Some of hose pads have quite good R values for something that's inflatable. Also, pack lightweight reflective "space blanket" bags in your ditch kit. The bags are better than the sheets, at least I think.
of course, in a fully packed life raft, you won't be able to get into one of those bags...
If I was sailing in cold water I would also consider a few of those chemical heating packs in the ditch bag.
