Knife ban

[Bouba]

It doesn’t impact French people like you anyway. But even if it did, i is hardly a material loss of liberty not carrying a knife compared to the loss of of life of the murdered son.

No, the law on multi tools is pretty much the same here...in fact even having one in the car can be illegal

 

[Bouba]

It doesn’t impact French people like you anyway. But even if it did, i is hardly a material loss of liberty not carrying a knife compared to the loss of of life of the murdered son.

Me having a multi tool would neither have prevented this murder....nor bring him back. Introducing an emotional element doesn’t change the argument...except to try and make us feel bad

 

[ylop]

I agree….but to make matters worse it is the manner in which they are enforced….far easier for police to catch law abiding citizens than go after the thankless task of chasing bad guys

The point of this legislation is that possession of zombie knives in your own home now becomes illegal. They no longer have to catch you in the act to catch the bad guys. If you know someone owns such a knife - much easier to lift them for it before they decide to take it on the streets - as madabouts video shows…

I don't think plod are bothered about the current rules, let alone any new ones. See this plod saying "sod this' and walking away in Southend on Sea recently.

Really - you think they should have thrown themselves into the middle of that? Their immediate responsibility was to keep the public away until firearms officers were there.

Not my job guv. Point is, we already have laws and they are clearly being flouted.

They made 8 arrests - does flouted not imply they were ignored?

I am sure the police involved in the clip I posted had tasers.

Not all cops carry tasers, and they are not ideal for a psychopath running with a big knife. If you are close enough to hit them but miss / it hits thick enough clothing to insulate them you are way too close for comfort.

What's the point if they are going to stand by and watch serious laws being broken.

A dead cop is a pretty useless cop, so waiting for enough officers, with the right equipment seems a sensible first step.

 

[Sailfree]

In posting this I am aware that some years ago the CEO of the Institution of Civil Engineers (an ex army brigader IIRC) was prosecuted for carrying a leather man multitool in his briefcase prior to boarding the Channel Tunnel.train.

He fought the charge and was found not guilty.

I would be happy with many laws if applied sensibly but so many end up not catching those intended but other innocent people by some jobsworth.

By coincidence I am currently spending 2 days in Toledo, Spain and it appears every other tourist shop is selling swords of various types plus 1000s of knives that won't meet UK legislation.


Once again I am a loss to explain why this is a problem in UK like binge drinking yet not in other EU countries.

Problems are unique to the UK.

Currently there is a large influx of US citizens to Portugal. Typically they say their reason for moving is Guns, Crime, Trump, Abortion, Cost of living, and climate.


At 10 pin bowling last week 2 US citizens were discussing guns. One a ex US prison officer nurse stated that even in safe Portugal he would be happier if he could legally carry a gun. Another US citizen said she liked him, he was a Liberal democrat yet in wanting to always carry a gun he epitomised all that was wrong with US liking of guns.

I wondered if is the equivalent argument in UK that people feel safer needing to carry large knives.

I am guilty in that I have leathermen multitools in all my cars and in my sailing bag and a very large diving knife on the companion'way steps for emergency cutting of ropes plus a cheap dagger like diving knife with a long serrated back edge in my diving kit. I say cheap as I lost an expensive one cutting fishing net from the propellor.

As an aside the French Pharmacutical company that I worked for gave every employee (including UK) an Xmas box with French food, French wine, French cheese but also a French Opinal knife wiih a 4.5" Blade. An Opinal knife can be locked so every UK employee went home with an illegal weapon that night. The directors did not consider for one moment why the Xmas boxes could be illegal in the UK.


Again I wonder why are these things only a problem in the UK.

 

[ylop]

Once again I am a loss to explain why this is a problem in UK like binge drinking yet not in other EU countries.

It’s not a problem in the whole of the U.K. many years ago knives were a problem in Glasgow, when they stopped trying to treat it as a judicial issue and started seeing it as a healthcare one they massively reduced the problem.

Interestingly the latest generation are much less “binge drinker” than their forebears…

I wondered if it was the equivalent argument in UK that people felt safer needing to carry large knives.

No I think you are misrepresenting the problem even in the worst parts of England. Ordinary law abiding people are not carrying knives to feel safer. Young people involved in gangs and drugs are carrying knives, possibly under the “justification” that they feel safer. I’ve never met an adult in the U.K. who claimed a knife made them feel safer in case they were attacked. I’ve met and worked with numerous Americans who believe carrying a gun is essential to their everyday safety. These are adults, with jobs, not involved in crime. It varies state to state.

As an aside the French Pharmacutical company that I worked for gave every Uzk employee a Xmas box with French food, French wine, French cheese but also a French Opinal knife wiih a 4.5" Blade. An zopinal knife can be locked so every employee went home with an illegal weapon (in the UK) that night. The directors did not consider for one moment why the Xmas boxes could be illegal in the UK.

They didn’t - owning a 4.5” Opinal knife is not illegal in the U.K. possessing it in public can be illegal, but there are circumstances where it is not - that would include having just been gifted it by your French employer along with other French items.

Again I wonder why are these things only a problem in the UK.

They aren’t. 40% of all European homicides are stabbings. The U.K. (or more accurately inner city English) headlines are because it is very young people who are getting stabbed and killed - adults dying is not good headline; kids dying is tabloid heaven!

To put it in perspective there’s about 7x as many people killed on our roads as by stabbing and those stories barely make the news.

 

[Bristolfashion]

It doesn’t impact French people like you anyway. But even if it did, i is hardly a material loss of liberty not carrying a knife compared to the loss of of life of the murdered son.

Well, I think that in that and your previous post, you are being a little over critical. If you read the posts carefully, you will see that the general mood is sad that society has come to this.

Whilst whether I or any others here carry any particular form of knife will make zero impact on knife crime, as we are never involved in these situations, I'm actually slightly impressed that there's pretty much no "blow it, I'm going to carry that knife anyway", rather people discuss how they've changed their habits to confirm exactly to the letter of the law - ie, is this knife legal or do I have a real reason to carry this knife.

The fact that we've involved a bit of cost and inconvenience and grumbled a bit is irrelevant - we accepted the law and got on with complying.

 

[Bristolfashion]

PS. A neighbour’s son was recently murdered in a public park in daytime by a random killer carrying a knife. Old guys on here moaning about losing the ability to carry a knife are losing a heck of a lot less than him and his family.

Whilst that is a tragic tale, me carrying any form of blade will never result in any death or injury under any circumstances. Even so, I have accepted the law and taken pains to avoid carrying any blade in circumstances where it would be illegal and buying a new, legal "daily carry" knife.

 

[Bristolfashion]

No it hasn’t - many / most of us have never felt any need to carry a knife for whatever reason.

Whilst, of course, each to his own, I cannot imagine not carrying a small "swiss army" knife or multi tool.

The ability to do minor running repairs or prepare food whilst out and about seems invaluable.

 

[Stemar]

It's "Something Must be Done" legislation, which is invariably bad legislation. There's no need for it, any more than there was for the law that made multitools illegal. The old offensive weapons law was entirely fit for purpose - an offensive weapon is anything that is made, adapted or intended for use as an offensive weapon, and having one in public without lawful authority (Plod's truncheon) or reasonable excuse will get you arrested. Having a sword in your car "I'm a collector and I just bought it, here's the receipt" - reasonable excuse. OTOH, waiting outside a club with a bunch of other yobs, "Nice try. You're nicked"

 

[benjenbav]

Whilst, of course, each to his own, I cannot imagine not carrying a small "swiss army" knife or multi tool.

The ability to do minor running repairs or prepare food whilst out and about seems invaluable.

I don’t find the current law on bladed items nor the new law too onerous.

I’m happy not to own what are defined as zombie knives - which seem to me, horrific items designed to cause harm.

As for leatherman types of knife that are useful onboard, I’m also happy that neither one’s boat nor one’s home is a public space where the carrying of such items without ‘good reason’ is punishable as an offence.

I can honestly say that I have never regretted not having a knife on my person as I’ve walked down the street. I’ve never wanted to fix a part of the public realm and I’ve never wanted to prepare a meal outside my home or boat.

Personal views, of course.

 

[benjenbav]

It's "Something Must be Done" legislation, which is invariably bad legislation. There's no need for it, any more than there was for the law that made multitools illegal. The old offensive weapons law was entirely fit for purpose - an offensive weapon is anything that is made, adapted or intended for use as an offensive weapon, and having one in public without lawful authority (Plod's truncheon) or reasonable excuse will get you arrested. Having a sword in your car "I'm a collector and I just bought it, here's the receipt" - reasonable excuse. OTOH, waiting outside a club with a bunch of other yobs, "Nice try. You're nicked"

Voice of reason, Stemar. That’ll never do.

 

[Stemar]

I’ve never wanted to fix a part of the public realm and I’ve never wanted to prepare a meal outside my home or boat.

I'd agree with that but, a few weeks ago, we were on the boat, and needed some shopping. I forgot to remove my multitool from my belt, so I'm not obliged to say anything... Anyway, I went into a charity shop and a couple of staff members were doing something that needed a screwdriver, but didn't have one. They were most grateful when I got out my lethal weapon.

 

[Ammonite]

It's "Something Must be Done" legislation, which is invariably bad legislation. There's no need for it, any more than there was for the law that made multitools illegal. The old offensive weapons law was entirely fit for purpose - an offensive weapon is anything that is made, adapted or intended for use as an offensive weapon, and having one in public without lawful authority (Plod's truncheon) or reasonable excuse will get you arrested. Having a sword in your car "I'm a collector and I just bought it, here's the receipt" - reasonable excuse. OTOH, waiting outside a club with a bunch of other yobs, "Nice try. You're nicked"

While I agree with you in many ways there's a "my knife is bigger, better than yours" culture that has grown up around these that encourages people to buy and carry them.

 

[Bouba]

Many decades ago...I got a house where I was responsible for cutting the grass....after growing up in the South Seas, I only knew of one way to trim a lawn....with a machete. But try as I might I couldn’t find one anywhere in London

 

[Bristolfashion]

I'd agree with that but, a few weeks ago, we were on the boat, and needed some shopping. I forgot to remove my multitool from my belt, so I'm not obliged to say anything... Anyway, I went into a charity shop and a couple of staff members were doing something that needed a screwdriver, but didn't have one. They were most grateful when I got out my lethal weapon.

We travel a lot by public transport/ bike/ hiking and often knock up a quick sandwich or cook somewhere else.

And, of course, who would be without an emergency corkscrew / bottle opener / can opener!

Tweezers for annoying splinters

Tiny screwdriver for tightening glasses

And, as you say, I can't count the number of incidental little fixes I've carried out at various locations using a multi tool. Elderly relatives & friends always seem to have at least one quick , multi tool job which avoids a silly call out fee for them.

Elderly relatives seem to have a horror of any knife sharp enough to actually cut anything, so if I need to chop an onion at mum's place, out comes the pocket knife.

I've had the habit of whittling since I was a lad and carrying a pocket knife / saw is a pleasure.

 

[colind3782]

Many decades ago...I got a house where I was responsible for cutting the grass....after growing up in the South Seas, I only knew of one way to trim a lawn....with a machete. But try as I might I couldn’t find one anywhere in London

Fairly ubiquitous in Wolverhampton!

 

[Stemar]

Many decades ago, IIRC, Lawrence Corner (remember them?) had them, presumably left over from army activities in Malaysia or similar.

 

[Stemar]

While I agree with you in many ways there's a "my knife is bigger, better than yours" culture that has grown up around these that encourages people to buy and carry them.

All that means in relation to the offensive weapons law is that my fine or prison sentence is bigger than yours.

 

[ylop]

The old offensive weapons law was entirely fit for purpose - an offensive weapon is anything that is made, adapted or intended for use as an offensive weapon, and having one in public without lawful authority (Plod's truncheon) or reasonable excuse will get you arrested.

the reason it has been introduced (other than media pressure) is today the police can search someone’s home for drugs, stolen goods etc and find a zombie knife - and there is no offence, but they know that it’s not being kept as a collectors item! It’s only an offence to have it in public - the rules change in a few weeks time that owning one at all is an offense.

 

[capnsensible]

Wasn’t what you said though or what the “news” were implying. That figure includes everything involving a knife.

Google it. If you want the stats that is a huge amount of injuries. And an average of 244 deaths a year, plus or minus
Hardly surprising action is being taken. Too many kids dying young....