Is sailing an exclusive sport?

[AlistairM]

Beware gripe approaching!

I am a gent of reasonable means and comfortable lifestyle. There has been much said of sailing as a sport being available to everyone recently, so I thought I would put my case forward to gauge peoples opinons.

I could quite happily afford to buy a 20 - 25 ft yacht of choice, admittedly 2nd hand but never the less the point being that this is possible. My problem comes in keeping it somewhere.

It seems to me (I am on the South Wales coast, cardiff specifically) that it would cost more, a lot more just to put the thing in the water for any length of time. There is no where along my immediate bit of coast line that would allow me to justify keeping the boat due to the cost involved.

I have a small 12ft dinghy which I sail on a reservoir and pay £100 pa for the privelage, which given the current climate is essentially dead money.

So where in all this is the boat ownership fable as pressed by the yachtie journo's available to average Joe?

Ok rant over what do people think.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Not exclusive, because so many people do it. But expensive, yes. And assuming you don't have bottomless pockets, something other people consider as usual (like long-haul holidays) might have to be sacrificed to keep the boat afloat.

 

[Ludd]

Beware gripe approaching!

I am a gent of reasonable means and comfortable lifestyle. There has been much said of sailing as a sport being available to everyone recently, so I thought I would put my case forward to gauge peoples opinons.

I could quite happily afford to buy a 20 - 25 ft yacht of choice, admittedly 2nd hand but never the less the point being that this is possible. My problem comes in keeping it somewhere.

It seems to me (I am on the South Wales coast, cardiff specifically) that it would cost more, a lot more just to put the thing in the water for any length of time. There is no where along my immediate bit of coast line that would allow me to justify keeping the boat due to the cost involved.

I have a small 12ft dinghy which I sail on a reservoir and pay £100 pa for the privelage, which given the current climate is essentially dead money.

So where in all this is the boat ownership fable as pressed by the yachtie journo's available to average Joe?

Ok rant over what do people think.

Yachty journos sail other people's yachts usually,live in a rarified atmosphere where everyone is on London wages and keeps their boat on the Solent at £5000pa. Please don't bring reality onto this subject!

 

[Poignard]

Sailing, like the Ritz, is open to all.

 

[AlistairM]

Hmm I take all your points, I spose people just have different priorities, some have holidays others have boats.

Thanks for clearing the mists

 

[Appleyard]

Beware gripe approaching!

I am a gent of reasonable means and comfortable lifestyle. There has been much said of sailing as a sport being available to everyone recently, so I thought I would put my case forward to gauge peoples opinons.

I could quite happily afford to buy a 20 - 25 ft yacht of choice, admittedly 2nd hand but never the less the point being that this is possible. My problem comes in keeping it somewhere.

It seems to me (I am on the South Wales coast, cardiff specifically) that it would cost more, a lot more just to put the thing in the water for any length of time. There is no where along my immediate bit of coast line that would allow me to justify keeping the boat due to the cost involved.

I have a small 12ft dinghy which I sail on a reservoir and pay £100 pa for the privelage, which given the current climate is essentially dead money.

So where in all this is the boat ownership fable as pressed by the yachtie journo's available to average Joe?

Ok rant over what do people think.

Listen....you only live once....if you want a boat and can afford it...do it.

You say that you have reasonable means & comfortable lifestyle....which implies that you have disposable income...what do you do with it? What is it earning in the bank/investments?

You're a lang time deid.Enjoy what you have .

 

[sky7liner]

Cost of sailing

Surely the mistake being made is that you need to own a boat to go sailing? So far as I can see there are always people around who own boats and need crew. Even if you pay for your sailing, it's not as expensive as keeping a boat. The decision that I made a couple of years ago was that I could go sailing one weekend a month from April to October with a couple of weeks somewhere at less cost than keeping a boat in the water.

Admittedly this won't do anything at all for the people who enjoy working on their boats, want to sail more often than I do or for longer periods. As ever, it's all a question of what you want.

 

[Malabar]

I cannot afford a new flat screen TV; I have had the same car for 6 years. But I have just paid a total of £370 being my annual sailing club subscription plus mooring and harbour dues on the Solent for a 6 m. boat, walk-ashore pontoon berth with water and electricity. It's all a question of priorities.

 

[webcraft]

It seems to me (I am on the South Wales coast, cardiff specifically) that it would cost more, a lot more just to put the thing in the water for any length of time. There is no where along my immediate bit of coast line that would allow me to justify keeping the boat due to the cost involved.

So where in all this is the boat ownership fable as pressed by the yachtie journo's available to average Joe?

Ok rant over what do people think.

Lots of people don't keep their boat near where they live for precisely that reason. Many sailors don't live near the sea anyway.

We have our own mooring leased from the Crown through our local moorings association. Cost is £54 per annum. The bay is sheltered enough to leave the boat in all year if necessary, and annual inspection and maintenance costs over the six-year life of the mooring so far have averaged out at about £120 a year. It might take you a year's looking to find a decent swinging mooring or somewhere you could put one down, but if you tried hard enough you might well succeed.

OTOH I see that Cardiff Bay marina is £225.00/metre length over all annually if paid by direct debit. This would come to £1850 annually for our boat (8.23m LOA) and this gives you security and the benefits of walk-on walk-off access. That's less than £40 a week, or a decent restaurant meal for two. (All prices plus VAT of course). Penarth Quays is slightly more expensive at £246 per metre per annum, but still under £40 per week. The Upper Basin at Neyland is only £186 per metre per annum - but I don't know what the downside of that is.

I don't see what your gripe is Alastair. If you wanted to keep your boat on the Solent that would be a different matter, but you are in a relatively good position. If it is too expensive for you then perhaps you don't want to do it badly enough to make sacrifices in other areas of your life. (We run bangers instead of buying newer cars, for example).

I think you need a little inspiration. I suggest you read Moitessier and Slocum to see what can be done on a budget. I am sure others will have suggestions for suitable reading.

- W

 

[Slow_boat]

For a start, I don't see sailing as a sport. maybe a pastime, or way of life but unless you've got to prove something, so you race, it ain't a sport.

Secondly, reported mooring/marina fees put me off owning a boat for a long time, until I started to look into it properly. I pay £120 pa mooring fees. Total boat expences, including club, mooring, maintainance and a few hundre quid contingency fund is about £1,000. Which is less than a fortnights holiday for two or depreciation on a decent car.

I downsized the house to buy the boat we wanted and will be doing it again soon, if swmbo gets her way. My car is ten years old, swmbos nearer twenty and we don't spend money on things we don't need to. It's a question of priorities.

Look around, there must be some cheap half tide moorings in your area.

 

[fergie_mac66]

Sw wales coast I believe you could find a cheap swinging mooring if you looked

I think I saw a thread somewhere about laying your own moorings over at milford way .You gets what you pay for tho .,a swinging mooring means no easy access .

 

[Tommyrot]

If you want marina facilities, it's expensive. Same goes for buying a ready-to-use boat or having someone work on it for you.
You pay for convenience.

It doesn't have to be like that, my mooring costs £30 a year, I hope to be moving to a more pleasant spot soon, more expensive at around £100 a year.

The boat I got for next to nothing, refitted it myself, built a good outboard out of 2 dead ones.
Picked up other folk's cast-off bits to use and generally went through the skips to get things together.

If you want it bad enough it can be done.

 

[Tommyrot]

Look around, there must be some cheap half tide moorings in your area.

Here for a start!

If it was a bit closer to home I might be tempted.....

 

[richgiddens]

Owning might be expensive, sailing needn't be. I chartered an Oceanis 37 in The Solent for five days over New Year for 500 quid between four of us.
OK, winter sailing has it's drawbacks but we had a great time.
If you can get a small group together, a w/ends or even a weeks sailing can be had for not much more per head than the cost of a decent B&B.

 

[photodog]

Of course its a exclusive sport!

1) Cost; If you live near the coast, and are good at DIY. then it can be done cheaply.
If not... then its gonna be expensive. so, you have to have a good amount of disposable income... or live near the sea and be good at DIY.... both of the above on their own rule out the majority of the population.
2) Participant Profile; I see almost no minority groups on the water.. the profile of the average sailor is white and middle/upper class..... And I see no real effort to add more people from these groups to our ranks. There may be no physical barriers to them taking part... but the fact that the culture of sailing is pretty white... is a barrier of its own.
3) Skills; There are skills that must be obtained to take part.. and aquiring these skills requires time which precludes most people from a deprived background... who are too busy trying to make enough money to pay the council tax.
4) Reputation; Yachting has a reputation and outward vision as being a expensive and exlusive activity for the rich and idle... We make almost no effort to change this outward reputation in the media... it is consistently shown as a elite activity, in both editorial and advertising.


So, I think it is pretty silly and disengenuous to suggest that somehow this is not a exclusive sport/leisure activity. I suspect that the only sport MORE exclusive is Polo.

Now... the real question.... CAN ANYONE HERE HONESTLY SAY THEY WOULD LIKE IT ANY OTHER WAY?

hmmm... not I. I love the exclusive nature of sailing. If I wanted to do something inclusive... I would go down to the high street on a saturday and shop at TKMax... why would I want EVEN MORE of the hoi poloi polluting my favorite anchorage, or running up and down my pontoon.

When people ask what I do for fun... i am proud of the fact that I have some skills that most people consider pretty impressive and scary...

When that little gate on the marina Swishes shut behind me... I am getting away from the scrotes and the crowds and shouty and dirty and common oiks.

So, Exclusive??? YES! and THANK GOD!

 

[longjohnsilver]

Of course its a exclusive sport!

1) Cost; If you live near the coast, and are good at DIY. then it can be done cheaply.
If not... then its gonna be expensive. so, you have to have a good amount of disposable income... or live near the sea and be good at DIY.... both of the above on their own rule out the majority of the population.
2) Participant Profile; I see almost no minority groups on the water.. the profile of the average sailor is white and middle/upper class..... And I see no real effort to add more people from these groups to our ranks. There may be no physical barriers to them taking part... but the fact that the culture of sailing is pretty white... is a barrier of its own.
3) Skills; There are skills that must be obtained to take part.. and aquiring these skills requires time which precludes most people from a deprived background... who are too busy trying to make enough money to pay the council tax.
4) Reputation; Yachting has a reputation and outward vision as being a expensive and exlusive activity for the rich and idle... We make almost no effort to change this outward reputation in the media... it is consistently shown as a elite activity, in both editorial and advertising.


So, I think it is pretty silly and disengenuous to suggest that somehow this is not a exclusive sport/leisure activity. I suspect that the only sport MORE exclusive is Polo.

Now... the real question.... CAN ANYONE HERE HONESTLY SAY THEY WOULD LIKE IT ANY OTHER WAY?

hmmm... not I. I love the exclusive nature of sailing. If I wanted to do something inclusive... I would go down to the high street on a saturday and shop at TKMax... why would I want EVEN MORE of the hoi poloi polluting my favorite anchorage, or running up and down my pontoon.

When people ask what I do for fun... i am proud of the fact that I have some skills that most people consider pretty impressive and scary...

When that little gate on the marina Swishes shut behind me... I am getting away from the scrotes and the crowds and shouty and dirty and common oiks.

So, Exclusive??? YES! and THANK GOD!

Bloody hell, next you'll want to ban dogs from marinas! ;-))

 

[Stork_III]

Longjohnsilver posted "Bloody hell, next you'll want to ban dogs from marinas!"

Its been done already. Ramsgate.

 

[timbartlett]

Yachty journos sail other people's yachts usually,live in a rarified atmosphere where everyone is on London wages and keeps their boat on the Solent at £5000pa. Please don't bring reality onto this subject!

Please do bring some reality onto this subject

I live in a house which is worth almost exactly the UK average house price.

My other half and I share one six year old car and we have a motorbike each (mine is H registration)

I don't get any wages at all: I am freelance (ie self-employed) which means I get paid for what I produce, not just for turning up.

It's true that until recently, I kept my boat in the Solent, on a pile mooring in the Hamble, and before that on an RNSA swinging mooring in Portsmouth -- both of which cost hundreds, rather than thousands.

Yes, I sail and motorboat on other people's boats. Magazines simply do not pay enough for anyone (without another major source of income) to keep the kind of boats they require us to write about.

Do you think everyone who writes for "Luxury Mansions Monthly" lives in one? Or that everyone who writes for "Military Jets" owns their own Tornado?

 

[mcframe]

Sailing isn't a sport for the rich.

You only need one previously-rich person per boat ;->

 

[Cerddinen]

I'm with Photodog on this one. Once away from chartering centres there are barriers to getting out on the water. These have the advantage of keeping out all but the committed which ensures everyone you meet has a commonality of purpose. Long may these barriers exist to keep out the day trippers and casual oiks.

For the converse just look at how the "prawn sandwich brigade" have destroyed the true values of football (violence, obscenity, and blind tribal loyalty).