Is sailing an exclusive sport?

[alexrunic]

I started on a very low budget, I borrowed money to buy a cheap 18 ft bilge keeler and kept it on a £125 per year mooring. The key is spreading out any expenses for improvements and prioritising jobs. I moved up to a 22ft a few years ago and its took me 3 years to be able to afford to do all the jobs.

I don't have other than sailing holidays and run an old bagger car. But I do get sailing every time the tides are ok on springs every other weekend for 6 or 7 months a year.

 

[fergie_mac66]

norfolk broads

The norfolk broads can be a nice introduction and the weather can be good

They still have sailing boats but also cruisers.There are often offers for long weekends

http://www.huntersyard.co.uk/

The hunters boat yard have some really good trad sailing gaff sloops are pretty much know all over the world Probably need some experience for hunters fleet but a search on the net should produce some results

http://www.totaltravel.co.uk/travel/East-Anglia/norfolk-broads/broads/directory/boating

http://www.norfolkbroads.com/boating/sailing-hire

The broads flat water Can be a good intro on a cruiser possibly easier with young children and never far from land .. or a pub!!The crowds have lessened now

 

[timbartlett]

A Sport?? Does that mean I can enter 2012

Sailing is an olympic sport, and has been for many years.
Of course that doesn't mean we are all olympic standard, any more than the gaggle of overweight grannies who go "jogging" (in more senses than one!) past my house every day will ever compete in an olympic 100metres.
But I presume they enjoy doing it -- just as I presume we enjoy sailing.

 

[ditchcrawler]

It is interesting that sailing and boating is percieved as being for the rich.I sail to Holland and they seem not to have the same attitude as many people have some form of boat.Perhaps it is the fact that the water is an almost constant companion in that country.

 

[nathanlee]

So where in all this is the boat ownership fable as pressed by the yachtie journo's available to average Joe?

Ok rant over what do people think.

My bank balance is currently £400. I'll be dipping into the overdraft tomorrow to pay for the new boat to be transported up here. The new boat cost me £850. My current boat is up for sale for £3,650 (a genuine bargain, I might add) in order to pay off the outstanding three thousand I have on my credit card. Debt I collected because of kitting out the first boat.

The boat costs me £100 per month to moor (it used to cost nearly four times that in London.)

I'm currently earning £300 per week (although I only work 2 days in fairness).

It all depends on how much you want to do it. I want to do it enough to change my lifestyle to allow me to own a boat. In my case, it means I have to live on it too.

Cut your cloth accordingly. If you want a nice car, a nice house AND a nice boat, then no, it's not accessible unless you're loaded.

 

[NormanS]

I have a boat. Therefore I don't smoke, I don't drink, and I don't p... it up against a wall. It's all a question of priorities.

Also, remember that enjoyment is not related to overall length (of boat anyway).

 

[Quandary]

There is a problem. There is a Boat Club in our shore side village, cheap boatyard, cheap moorings and very little activity, only a couple of the boats go anywhere and many of the others are worked on now and again but never launched. Few years ago a junior dinghy section was suggested for the village kids and they said OK we will think about it but prevaricated for a couple of years. When it was clear they did not want to do it a few people got together and started a new Dinghy Club. Got some grants raised some money and recruited a load of kids, all keen to get on the water. Started off with two Picos, now there are five plus a few others. In the first season we used a commercial slipway that did not have all tide access, we were allowed to use the Club slipway but a load of the old guys in the yard started whinging about it. After the second season they decided that they could not take the risk of having 'children' use their slipway or enter the yard so we had to build our own slipway elsewhere for launching, which we managed with help from all the village. These 'sailors' quoted health and safety, liability, and insurance to justify their prejudice but it was just snobbery. When the kids were there, they were for ever bullying them, I think they just could not face the jollity. Perhaps snobbery not based on class or wealth but on maintaining exclusiveness and ageism. However having rejected beginners and youth they will have no one to continue when they all pop their clogs.

 

[timbartlett]

...aren't the loud, offensive hoorays just as bad?

...And get your kids an Oppy to sail.

Of course sailing is exclusive, in that there are some people who simply cannot afford no matter what other economies they make, some who are physically or mentally incapable of it, and some who have other commitments (call them "priorities" if you like that) make it impractical.
The question is not whether it "is" or "isn't" but where it fits on a scale of exclusivity. And I have a nasty feeling that "yachting" is becoming more exclusive as time passes.
There's not much doubt that nineteenth century Yottin' was pretty exclusive, butthere was a time --probably peaking in the sixties -- when almost any family that had at least one wage coming in could afford a boat. It was the era of the plywood dinghy -- just think of all those Enterprises, Herons, GP14s, and Mirrors.

And of course the Optimist -- specifically designed to be knocked up in a garden shed from two sheets of marine ply. The plans even showed you how to make your own wooden spars.

I built a wooden Oppie for my daughter for her 7th birthday, about 17 years ago. Even then, measurer commented on how unusual it was to come across a home-built Oppie -- and how mine was absolutely typical in that it failed its measurement certificate because it is almost impossible to build a wooden boat according to the plans and get it within the tolerances required. Now, a new factory-built Optimist costs over £1500 -- and a posh one is knocking on for £3000.

I think that kind of thing is driving newcomers away.

And its not just dinghies. The Hooray Henries are not just loud and offensive: they are also seducing the boatbuilders into building bigger and bigger boats.

Most of us, on this thread, seem to be sailing relatively modest second-hand boats -- typically, it seems, in the 24-30ft bracket. But how many boatbuilders are still making 26ft cruisers? I don't mean overgrown dinghies for the Hoorays to crash around the cans for a couple of hours before they go and spill their alcopops in the club bar -- I mean proper little cruisers.

Because if they aren't being built now, that means there won't be any reasonably-priced ten-year old boats in ten years time -- and in twenty years time there will be no 20-year old boats either. It probably won't affect me -- but it will affect the little girl who learnt to sail the Oppie her dad built in a garage, 17 years ago, and countless others like her and following on behind.

 

[fergie_mac66]

The question is not whether it "is" or "isn't" but where it fits on a scale of exclusivity. And I have a nasty feeling that "yachting" is becoming more exclusive as time passes.
Tprobably peaking in the sixties -- when almost any family that had at least one wage coming in could afford a boat. It was the era of the plywood dinghy -- just think of all those Enterprises, Herons, GP14s, and Mirrors.


I think that kind of thing is driving newcomers away.

And its not just dinghies. The Hooray Henries are not just loud and offensive: they are also seducing the boatbuilders into building bigger and bigger boats.

Most of us, on this thread, seem to be sailing relatively modest second-hand boats -- typically, it seems, in the 24-30ft bracket. But how many boatbuilders are still making 26ft cruisers? I don't mean overgrown dinghies for the Hoorays to crash around the cans for a couple of hours before they go and spill their alcopops in the club bar -- I mean proper little cruisers.

Well the thing is aspirations have changed people used to sail all over the place in smaller cruisers content with a depth sounder, a few old charts , probably not updated, a couple of changes of clothes and a passport

http://members.lycos.co.uk/marybonney/PDFs/Shrimpy.pdf

18 foot caprice round the world by Shane Acton

Full book need a adobe reader or somesuch to read

 

[BrianH]

Most of us, on this thread, seem to be sailing relatively modest second-hand boats -- typically, it seems, in the 24-30ft bracket. But how many boatbuilders are still making 26ft cruisers?

This is, oh so true. I too began sailing in the early 60s, starting with an old Snipe, moved up to a Wayfarer, then 6m half-decked dayboat followed by a 7m YW Buccaneer - with a few odd short-time others in between - until I stayed cruising with a 8m Trapper 500 for 25 years. As many did then I slowly progressed, selling boats for more than I paid for them and moving up the scale, learning tons about sailing and seamanship in the process.

But now everyone I know (admittedly not in the UK) expects to start with something in excess of 10m. My young Italian neighbour of two years in the marina had a small mobo and always said he wanted to change to sail even though he had never sailed - couldn't even control his mobo as I knew from his berthing technique and my scratched topsides. Last year he triumphantly informed me he had ordered his new sailing boat - a Bavaria 37.

I congratulated him but deep down I disapproved. Is it because I was jealous that I had never had the early chance to go straight to such a size of boat - and a new one to boot? Not really, I am very happy with what I have now and the wonderful sailing memories I accumulated have nothing to do with what size boat I had.

But it does stem from observing the terrible boat handling I see every day afloat, which I believe has more than a little to do with people not having that learning curve that first dinghies, then small cruisers can give of how the wind and seas act on floaty things.

 

[fergie_mac66]

I like to do it myself. I like to tend the sails sort the anchor etc as soon as it get to that size when you have to ha 4/5/6/7 on deck what's the point, some body else is doing it, might as well be on Queen Mary thats just me though.

 

[mcframe]

I always hesitate to use the word "yacht" and normally go for "boat", result of a poor working class background?/QUOTE]

You remember irregular verbs from _Yes Minister_?

"I have an independent mind; you are an eccentric; he is round the twist."

"I give confidential press briefings; you leak; he's being charged under section 2A of the Official Secrets Act."

I have a boat; you have a yacht; he has a gin palace. ;-)

 

[arfa]

In answer to the op it doesn't have to be. there are plenty of cheap ways into the sport (clubs and crewing) etc. Remember the mirror dinghy ? that was my introduction to the sport and it was a dinghy designed to make the sport affordable and accesible and in it's day it was very successful. I was also lucky that more experienced sailors than I found time to pass on the benefit of their knowledge - something I try to carry on. Yes there is a demographic that is under represented but is that through lack of opportunity ? Much like with rowing, the sport has an elitist image but what got Sir Steve Redgrave going was the right person to inspire him at a young age, so perhaps that is what is missing ? Just a thought.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

There is a problem. There is a Boat Club in our shore side village, cheap boatyard, cheap moorings and very little activity, only a couple of the boats go anywhere and many of the others are worked on now and again but never launched. Few years ago a junior dinghy section was suggested for the village kids and they said OK we will think about it but prevaricated for a couple of years. When it was clear they did not want to do it a few people got together and started a new Dinghy Club. Got some grants raised some money and recruited a load of kids, all keen to get on the water. Started off with two Picos, now there are five plus a few others. In the first season we used a commercial slipway that did not have all tide access, we were allowed to use the Club slipway but a load of the old guys in the yard started whinging about it. After the second season they decided that they could not take the risk of having 'children' use their slipway or enter the yard so we had to build our own slipway elsewhere for launching, which we managed with help from all the village. These 'sailors' quoted health and safety, liability, and insurance to justify their prejudice but it was just snobbery. When the kids were there, they were for ever bullying them, I think they just could not face the jollity. Perhaps snobbery not based on class or wealth but on maintaining exclusiveness and ageism. However having rejected beginners and youth they will have no one to continue when they all pop their clogs.

I had a similar experience at my old club, but that was a club that prided itself on being a "working man's sailing club" and not a yacht club. But the older members simply didnt want kids running around. They made too much noise. They got in the way. The old men, being worriers because of age imagined safety problems. And that old saw - are they insured came up. It didnt help that the govt had brought in loads of silly rules about people dealing with kids. So it all faded away.

But my point is that it was nothing to do with "snobbery" and in my view neither was your experience. Had it been that then some kids would have been allowed and some not, probably by raising costs. Instead it was just a selfish attitude from a lot of older men who didnt want their peace disturbed.

It doesnt mean that sailing is exclusive in the normal sense of the word.

 

[SAWDOC]

There is a problem. There is a Boat Club in our shore side village, cheap boatyard, cheap moorings and very little activity, only a couple of the boats go anywhere and many of the others are worked on now and again but never launched. Few years ago a junior dinghy section was suggested for the village kids and they said OK we will think about it but prevaricated for a couple of years. When it was clear they did not want to do it a few people got together and started a new Dinghy Club. Got some grants raised some money and recruited a load of kids, all keen to get on the water. Started off with two Picos, now there are five plus a few others. In the first season we used a commercial slipway that did not have all tide access, we were allowed to use the Club slipway but a load of the old guys in the yard started whinging about it. After the second season they decided that they could not take the risk of having 'children' use their slipway or enter the yard so we had to build our own slipway elsewhere for launching, which we managed with help from all the village. These 'sailors' quoted health and safety, liability, and insurance to justify their prejudice but it was just snobbery. When the kids were there, they were for ever bullying them, I think they just could not face the jollity. Perhaps snobbery not based on class or wealth but on maintaining exclusiveness and ageism. However having rejected beginners and youth they will have no one to continue when they all pop their clogs.

We had a very different experience at our club. A few parents started Optimist sailing for kids not too many years ago. In 2007 I helped out as Committee boat for a regatta they were holding - if I remember right there was fewer than 10 dinghys on the water. This year as I slipped my mooring one weekend I could not believe the numbers - probably around 50 boats divided into 3 different fleets. This development has come about partly because some of the less blinkered oldies quickly realised that good dinghy sailors make excellent cruiser racer crew and any club exclusive or no needs new blood and new members coming along to push the wheel another mile down the road. As quandary has rightly pointed out above exclusiveness can be its own downfall

 

[Sybarite]

When I started sailing in Strangford Lough I put my own mooring down - a car engine which I bought for £1, plus whatever the chain cost at the time. I had a bilge keeler at the time and positioned it over the motor at high tide. At low tide I tied the motor to the bow of the boat and at high tide again I was off, chose my spot and cut the rope.

No annual charge apart from a notional charge to keep my dinghy at the adjoining yard - and that was a voluntary contribution.

But then my annual golf subscription was 30 shillings...

The good old days. I don't think I could afford to be a boatowner now on the UK South Coast

John

 

[Sybarite]

Unless your ambition is to do long range cruising.

 

[Sybarite]

It depends on your comfort level. Many small boats cross oceans. However the cost is exponential when you want to have a (marginal ?) increase in comfort.

John

 

[V1701]

My bank balance is currently £400. I'll be dipping into the overdraft tomorrow to pay for the new boat to be transported up here. The new boat cost me £850. My current boat is up for sale for £3,650 (a genuine bargain, I might add) in order to pay off the outstanding three thousand I have on my credit card. Debt I collected because of kitting out the first boat.

The boat costs me £100 per month to moor (it used to cost nearly four times that in London.)

I'm currently earning £300 per week (although I only work 2 days in fairness).

It all depends on how much you want to do it. I want to do it enough to change my lifestyle to allow me to own a boat. In my case, it means I have to live on it too.

Cut your cloth accordingly. If you want a nice car, a nice house AND a nice boat, then no, it's not accessible unless you're loaded.

Totally!

 

[V1701]

I always hesitate to use the word "yacht" and normally go for "boat", result of a poor working class background?/QUOTE]

You remember irregular verbs from _Yes Minister_?

"I have an independent mind; you are an eccentric; he is round the twist."

"I give confidential press briefings; you leak; he's being charged under section 2A of the Official Secrets Act."

I have a boat; you have a yacht; he has a gin palace. ;-)

I do, a classic!