Is 35 miles to far to drive to do antifouling with the lockdown

[Caraway]

Otherwise how are we just supposed to 'return to boating' and safely start sailing on the 29th?

Who has said you must be able to cast off and sail on 29th March? If you boat needs some work doing first then your sailing will be delayed.
Loads of people in this thread interpretting the rules for their particulare circumstance. That's not how general regulations work.

Interestingly Police in Cheshire have been strictly enforcing to the rules and stopping people who look like they are not obeying them. One tweet showed that three guys going somewhere they shouldn't have been going tried to pull the wool over the authorities eyes by borrowing a trailer and a farm gate which they tied to the trailer as a load. Their resonable excuse was going to be supplying and fitting a field gate. Unfortunately the police saw them and as they had unmatched registration plates on the van and the trailer they were suspected of stealing the trailer and gate.

 

[Achosenman]

They deserved everything they got if they're that stupid.

 

[dankilb]

Who has said you must be able to cast off and sail on 29th March? If you boat needs some work doing first then your sailing will be delayed.
Loads of people in this thread interpretting the rules for their particulare circumstance. That's not how general regulations work.

Nobody is misinterpreting the rules as far as I can see. The rules say no boat until 29th.

I think it’s strange, however, that anyone on a sailing forum - and frankly, anyone at all - would find themselves arguing on the same side as regulations that say you can go for a picnic from Monday but you cannot carry out work in preparation to resume a sport that massively enhances health and well-being.

Frankly, it’s an indication that things in this society have gone a bit loopy, IMHO.

 

[ip485]

These threads are all a little tedious now.

As I have said on other threads (and posted the legislation) the rules are not law, the legislation is. The legislation contains no distance limitation, and the test is reasonable. Ultimately only the Court can decide what is reasonable.

I am neither condoning nor opposing what people do, merely pointing out that it is no good quoting the rules in the same breath as referring to breaking the law, and no good claiming the law sayings something it doesnt. If you do, you are simply wrong. If you wish to argue about what is reasonable we can all get the popcorn out.

 

[Dutch01527]

Thread prompted me to look at some of the statistics for England and Wales on the ONS web site. I have rounded up the numbers for simplicity but the detail is here. Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Total number of deaths from all causes 2020 vs average number 2014/2019 - 100,000 more in 2020 (680,000 in total)
Total number of deaths from COVID in the over 75 age range - 90,000 including 30,000 in care homes
Total number of Alcohol related deaths 2019 - 5,000
Total number of smoking related deaths 2019 - 80,000
Total number of traffic accident related deaths 2019 - 1700

The COVID deaths rate would be much higher presumably if the control measures had not been in place. In balance other death rates such as alcohol, suicide, heart, cancer are rising.

It is clear that the risk is mainly with the elderly and vulnerable. Time will tell if protecting people with limited life expectancy and in many cases quality of life is justified when balanced with the loss of life, mental health, economic and other issues generated from the protection measures.

This pandemic is nowhere near the top 10 most deadly, indeed it is tiny as a % of population compared with the Black Death and other historical events.. It is, however, the first major one where we have had the technology to keep very sick people alive.

Interesting ethical debate, and I am not entirely sure where I stand. I do know that if I was very sick, in a care home with no hope of improvement I would not want to be kept alive just because it was possible to do so.

 

[Caraway]

Nobody is misinterpreting the rules as far as I can see. The rules say no boat until 29th.

I think it’s strange, however, that anyone on a sailing forum - and frankly, anyone at all - would find themselves arguing on the same side as regulations that say you can go for a picnic from Monday but you cannot carry out work in preparation to resume a sport that massively enhances health and well-being.

Frankly, it’s an indication that things in this society have gone a bit loopy, IMHO.

No. It's an indication that many people seek to obey the rules and just wait until they are allowed to do what they are wanting to do , being in favour of reinforcing the chance of the roadmap progressing to schedule.without further infection spikes.
If you want to generate your own interpretation of the rules with "WhatAboutIsms" and then find that the courts regard your Reasonable Excuse as being unreasonable, then that will be a lesson learned.

,

 

[ip485]

We really must stop confusing rules with law. We have rules and we have law. Rules are not law and rules are not enforceable. They may well provide sound guidance as to what is or isnt sensible, but the Courts are not interested in the rules.

In our judicial system it is up to the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt the law was broken. It is a pretty high bar when the legislation is pre-empted with we can do whatever we consider reasonable. What follows is NOT prescriptive, it is merely a list of activities that are definitely not precluded.

 

[Caraway]

But you are still not supporting the Spirit of the Regulations. You are seeking to subvert the lockdown by looking for loopholes.

 

[TimfromMersea]

But you are still not supporting the Spirit of the Regulations. You are seeking to subvert the lockdown by looking for loopholes.

But ever since Heydon’s Case in 1584 a regulation such as this should be interpreted by the ‘Mischief Rule’ - what was the mischief the statute was seeking to remedy or guard against? On that basis, the ‘mischief’ is the spread of Covid. How can someone working on his boat, in the open, by himself, further the spread of Covid?
And as one of my law lecturers many, many years ago once said, ‘lawyers deal in legal or illegal. For right or wrong, you want a priest’

 

[TheMerryFisher]

You are permitted to visit your boat as of the 8th March (today).
Coronavirus - advice and information for recreational boaters | News | News & Events | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

"When using a boat for outdoor recreation alone or with your household or support bubble from 8th March, you must not go inside except to access a toilet or for safety reasons or navigation. "
Coronavirus

Also, the term "recreation" has been added as of the 8th March and boating is outdoor recreation.

• you can spend time in outdoor public spaces for recreation on your own, with your household or support bubble, or with one other person. This means you can sit down for a drink or picnic. You must continue to maintain social distance from those outside your household. This is in addition to outdoor exercise, which is already permitted

National lockdown: Stay at Home

 

[peter gibbs]

The Yacht harbours organization have issue guidance on boat maintenance but talk about minimizing travel. Is 35 miles each way ok.
The dates they give are March 8th for maintenance to keep the boat seaworthy - Minimize travel
March 29th General maintenance ok but no overnight stays - minimize travel
April 12th as March 29th but overnight stays ok - still minimize travel
What does the forum think
David

A lot of people have been jn this position , not just us yachties but owners of proprty some way from base. Are we required to let our assets hang out in the wind or can we secure ouf interests. I think we can and there is nothing from the government that prohibits such supervision.

At the other end of the scale there's nipping out in the boat to shake out the sails. Not in the spirit of things really. Prepping the boat prior to the launch - is that one end or the other? If challenged it's marginal, but if there's no contact with others it's not damaging, surely?

PWG

 

[dom]

Great thread I'm a bank robber BTW and I too can find no explicit laws against robbing banks. Neither can the "Bank Robbing" forum I'm a member of.

Worse, there's no exception for me even though I've assiduously worn a stocking over my head for years.

Should I wait until April 12th before getting going or just follow the rules while I'm still on furlough? To be fair to Boris, at least criminals haven't been excluded from this scheme, and hey rules are there to be bent, right?

Tricky

 

[TimfromMersea]

Great thread I'm a bank robber BTW and I too can find no explicit laws against robbing banks. Neither can the "Bank Robbing" forum I'm a member of.

Worse, there's no exception for me even though I've assiduously worn a stocking over my head for years.

Should I wait until April 12th before getting going or just follow the rules while I'm still on furlough? To be fair to Boris, at least criminals haven't been excluded from this scheme, and hey rules are there to be bent, right?

Tricky

That’s because you haven’t looked - Theft Act 1968 Theft Act 1968

 

[Yellow Ballad]

This was issued in January, here

I would assume if you think your boat may be a danger to yourself or others, either breaking free from it's mooring or filling with water whilst in a cradle then I think there's an argument that you can check on it. As for slaping some antifoul on, not quite sure it's essential but that's on you.

 

[dom]

That’s because you haven’t looked - Theft Act 1968 Theft Act 1968

Hmm, you might be right, hence the routine face protection in my line of business ?

The good news, you guys can all do that now! Just get a dodgy set of plates, mix that paint, and you can call your uncle Bob

 

[ip485]

But you are still not supporting the Spirit of the Regulations. You are seeking to subvert the lockdown by looking for loopholes.

No, to be fair if you read my posts I specifically said the rules may well be sensible.

I have merely observed what it has been claimed the legislation says, is not so, and the rules are not legislation

 

[TimfromMersea]

This was issued in January, here

I would assume if you think your boat may be a danger to yourself or others, either breaking free from it's mooring or filling with water whilst in a cradle then I think there's an argument that you can check on it. As for slaping some antifoul on, not quite sure it's essential but that's on you.

But that was issued before the 8th March revisions when ‘recreation’ outdoors was permitted

 

[matt1]

Have I missed something about this March 8th recreation revision? I thought we were always allowed to sail as it was a form of exercise? I’ve seen plenty of boats going up and down the Hamble river during lockdown and even the harbourmaster said that was ok in his post Jan 4th lockdown update

 

[Yellow Ballad]

It was issued on the 7th January, after the lockdown came in. I would have thought if it's no longer valid it would be removed from the guidelines? Im not sure securing a second home, boat or caravan is classed as recreation?

 

[TimfromMersea]

Sailing and boating was always allowed. The OP query was on maintenance, which was not allowed before 8th March (unless it counted as ‘exercise’) but I believe counts as ‘outdoor recreation’ which from 8th March is a ‘reasonable excuse’ to leave home