Never Grumble
Well-known member
why not thats what legislators are paid to do.
Is 35 miles to far to drive to do antifouling with the lockdown
- Thread starter davidmh
- Start date
davidmh
Active member
As the OP my own opinion was that its the 12th April, many seem to agree. far fewer people than I expected saying yes you go ahead its quite safe,
David MH
David MH
ip485
Well-known member
Yes, you go ahead. If the Government had wished to impose a distance restriction, they were entirely capable of doing so. They actually employ more than enough people to deal with such simple drafting. They did not impose a distance restriction. Moreover they have had ample opportunity to do so subsequently or by way of ministerial pronouncement. Again they have chosen not to. They actually do read the press as well and no what people are broadly doing, although this seems to surprise some. Read into this as you will. Personally I read into it that the Government has always preferred we use or common sense rather than blindly follow rules, which are, as discussed before, not law. Intelligent people know what it takes to keep themselves and others safe, and it is each of our moral responsibility to do so. Driving in a car that you dont get out of and interacting with no one else when you get there does not risk spreading the virus. Before any one says you might break down - well you might, but there are many other remote possibiites that come into any risk mitigation scenario. You might sink becasue the clips blow off the sea cocks in the middle of the channel, but the risk of it happening are infinitesmally small.
Yes, go ahead.
Yes, go ahead.
LONG_KEELER
Well-known member
What if you superglue your " I've been vaccinated " chit to your forehead ?
Got to be worth 35 miles I would have thought and cover antifouling up to a length of about 28' and a fin keeler.
Got to be worth 35 miles I would have thought and cover antifouling up to a length of about 28' and a fin keeler.
bdh198
Active member
There is nothing in the regulations about minimising travel. If you have a good reason for carrying out maintenance yourself, not employing someone to do it on your behalf and not waiting till restrictions are lifted then the distance you travel is irrelevant, you’ll have a “reasonable excuse” and won’t be in breach of the regulations.
The guidance from the yacht harbours organisation does seem a bit confused. The dates given by the government are “not before” dates so placing any reliability on them is a bit optimistic. We also do not know precisely how the regulations will be amended at each stage of the easing of restrictions. All we know about the “roadmap” for easing lockdown is what Boris said on the 22nd February. Quite how the yacht harbours organisation came to the conclusion that you could do maintenance to keep a boat seaworthy on the 8th March, but have to wait till the 29th March for general maintenance from that the statement Boris gave is a bit of a mystery: PM statement to the House of Commons on roadmap for easing lockdown restrictions in England: 22 February 2021
Simple answer is; ignore the yacht harbours organisation guidance, ignore the government guidance, read the legislation and follow the law.
steveeasy
Well-known member
Senior police spokesman on look North last night said there is nothing wrong with someone travelling from cornwall to Lincolnshire just so long as they have a reasonable justification. that could be just wanting to walk on the beach. Local is not really relevant.
So if you want or need to antifoul your boat, then that's a reasonable justification. it does not matter if its 5 miles or 500 miles.
Steveeasy
So if you want or need to antifoul your boat, then that's a reasonable justification. it does not matter if its 5 miles or 500 miles.
Steveeasy
Seven Spades
Well-known member
The lady with the coffee was out with friends, that was the real issue. we all know the law is an ass and simply can’t cater fir all situations so use your common sense. If you are on your own or with your spouse you will likely be left alone. The focus is not to spread the virus so if you are not interacting other people you will be keeping to the spirit if not the letter. Don’t go out with a group of chums you are asking for trouble.
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Whatever she was doing she wasn't arrested for breaching covid regs for which you cannot be arrested, any more than you can for speeding. You can be arrested for other concurrent offences or for failing to satisfy a constable of your identity.
bdh198
Active member
Even the police are now, finally, starting to get the message that the regulations make no mention of “staying local”:
Yorkshire police boss says 'travel where you want for exercise'
In other words, you can travel as far as you want, provided you have a “reasonable excuse” for leaving or being outside of the place you are living.
Yorkshire police boss says 'travel where you want for exercise'
In other words, you can travel as far as you want, provided you have a “reasonable excuse” for leaving or being outside of the place you are living.
davidmh
Active member
Surrey police say privately that there is no law that gives an actual distance you can drive for exercise etc, ie non -essential,. They are using 5 miles from home as being reasonable when they stop people. My senior source would not say what action they can take if it is over 5 miles. Bit of a mess really. My guess is that 29th March may be ok for going to the boat to work on it but 12 April looks safer and it is after Easter and I am sure the Gov do not want a repeat of christmas mess up.
David MH
David MH
Never Grumble
Well-known member
I presume because there is little they can do if challenged in law.
Slowboat35
Well-known member
So it's acceptable to pay someone else from a maintenance company to do your antifouling but you cannot do it yourself?
Sorree, I think the RYA have that interpretation quite wrong. It simply isn't rational.
I can use my boat, launch it, sail it. What happens when the gas bottle runs empty? Changing that is maintenance. Am I not allowed to wash birdlime off the decks or change the engine oil. Whip a frayed halyard?
If I can be outdoors to paint the outside of my house or dig my garden then I can paint my boat - social distancing being observed. If I can travel to my place of work 35 miles away and get paid to paint someone else's boat that's parked right next to mine must I really hire someone else to paint my boat while I work on a stranger's boat ten yards away? The owner doesn't have colleagues to meet, premises to access, storemen to deal with, bosses to liase with. he exposes society to a lesser risk than the employee!
I thnk the RYA have rather missed the emssage on this one.
Sorree, I think the RYA have that interpretation quite wrong. It simply isn't rational.
I can use my boat, launch it, sail it. What happens when the gas bottle runs empty? Changing that is maintenance. Am I not allowed to wash birdlime off the decks or change the engine oil. Whip a frayed halyard?
If I can be outdoors to paint the outside of my house or dig my garden then I can paint my boat - social distancing being observed. If I can travel to my place of work 35 miles away and get paid to paint someone else's boat that's parked right next to mine must I really hire someone else to paint my boat while I work on a stranger's boat ten yards away? The owner doesn't have colleagues to meet, premises to access, storemen to deal with, bosses to liase with. he exposes society to a lesser risk than the employee!
I thnk the RYA have rather missed the emssage on this one.
mickywillis
Well-known member
If you read the briefing here: Coronavirus (britishmarine.co.uk) under the section marked COVID-19: Reopening of the marine industry in England - 02/03/2021 and then scroll to teh Private Boats section, you will see that 8th March still shows as "stay local, minimise time spent away from home"
On March 29th you should notice that the "stay at home" rule is lifted from that date. So 29th March is the date you can travel further than local, but still no overnights until 12th April.
Its not difficult to understand is it?
On March 29th you should notice that the "stay at home" rule is lifted from that date. So 29th March is the date you can travel further than local, but still no overnights until 12th April.
Its not difficult to understand is it?
LittleSister
Well-known member
But as others have pointed out, it's not in the Regulations!
It is only in the Guidance, which doesn't itself have force of law (which is why the Police have had to withdraw penalties they issued to people for failing to comply with the Guidance).
Actually, it is very difficult to understand.
If you think the restrictions are not difficult to understand, then you do not understand what you are talking about.
It is (in part) because it is difficult to understand that police (and even a judge!) have on occasions got it wrong, and lawyers (and others) have complained about it.
The Regulations have been changed over 60 times (maybe more now, as that was a few weeks ago). Most of those changes alter just small, but critical, parts of previously issued regulations. The Government has not published a consolidated set of the regulations as they stand now. So nowhere is there a definitive text that anyone could read and know what the Regulations currently are. (You could pay a lawyer a few hours work to try to put one together for you, but it still wouldn't be definitive.)
The terms used in the Regulations are not all defined. For example, the regulations say that you may travel for 'work' (because it's stated as a (non-exclusive) 'reasonable excuse') but 'work' is not defined. So 'work' has not been restricted only to employment or self-employment (contrary to the views of some on here). So does working on your own boat meet the definition of 'work'? Most assume it doesn't, but nobody really knows unless and until a court decides.
The Guidance doesn't match the regulations, and in some cases seems to be in direct conflict with it. The Guidance doesn't itself doesn't have force of law, but might well be relied on by the police or a court to determine what is a 'reasonable excuse', and therefore compliant with the Regulations.
Ministers have made statements about what is and is not acceptable. But their statements have not even been consistent with one another, let alone the Regulations and the Guidance.
By all means follow the BMF take on what the regulations mean if that suits you (and your boatyard), but they do not have the ability or authority to provide a definitive statement of what the current restrictions are, let alone what they will be in future.
Tomahawk
Well-known member
There if course the question as to the validity of the regulations and restrictions.
DJE
Well-known member
Thanks for that. My sentiments exactly. I am fortunate in living only 5 miles from the boatyard and have visited several times by bicycle while exercising. But from Monday I will be fitting out in earnest (in a socially distanced manner) as I believe that this is covered by the definition of outdoor recreation.
dankilb
Well-known member
Spare a thought for those of us with boats in club yards. AFAIK clubs cannot re-open to boatowners until organised outdoor sport is allowed on 29 March (could potentially be earlier - or indeed later - in Wales).
Like much of the regulations and guidance, having this single date as a threshold is illogical. While businesses can actively prepare for the 29th - and personally I agree with the above, that owners in private yards/marinas (if open) can interpret the guidance to do the same - clubs can only permit 'essential' volunteers on their premises (to prepare the 'facilities'). This doesn't give any margin to prepare actual boats for sailing on an equal footing to private-sector businesses (or their boatowner clients).
It would make much more sense to interpret 8 March onwards as 'preparation' time, with a view to activities resuming (boats launching, people sailing, etc.) on an equal-opportunity basis. Rather than just being down to the luck of the draw that those whose boats are ready, or who are in private yards/marinas with more relaxed opening, can start their sport/exercise/recreation (safely) sooner than others.
Otherwise how are we just supposed to 'return to boating' and safely start sailing on the 29th?
Like much of the regulations and guidance, having this single date as a threshold is illogical. While businesses can actively prepare for the 29th - and personally I agree with the above, that owners in private yards/marinas (if open) can interpret the guidance to do the same - clubs can only permit 'essential' volunteers on their premises (to prepare the 'facilities'). This doesn't give any margin to prepare actual boats for sailing on an equal footing to private-sector businesses (or their boatowner clients).
It would make much more sense to interpret 8 March onwards as 'preparation' time, with a view to activities resuming (boats launching, people sailing, etc.) on an equal-opportunity basis. Rather than just being down to the luck of the draw that those whose boats are ready, or who are in private yards/marinas with more relaxed opening, can start their sport/exercise/recreation (safely) sooner than others.
Otherwise how are we just supposed to 'return to boating' and safely start sailing on the 29th?
TernVI
Well-known member
How are the people who catch CV going to be doing any sport on the 29th?
bdh198
Active member
Don’t go there... that’s a whole new can of worms!
Although, Lord Sumption (former Justice of the Supreme Court) might have some sympathy with the suggestion the laws are ultra vires and that civil disobedience may be a justified consequence.
dankilb
Well-known member
I’m not sure how this is relevant. The ‘re-opening’ is happening, whether we like it or not. Indeed, it’s a pre-requisite for maintaining our societies, economies, and health/wellbeing.
If anyone catches C19 - and I know plenty who have (all recovered apart from two sadly deceased) - presumably they must isolate as required, seek treatment if needed, and >99% will thankfully survive.
You can’t help wonder whether one inbuilt bias on this forum is the large number of retirees. For those of us still working, coming into close contact with C19 is part of everyday life now. Sooner or later, everyone will have to recognise that it is part of all our lives.
Vaccines help, so do restrictions, but we cannot stop doing what we do forever. I cannot see the harm in interrogating the logic and pacing of how we get to this ‘new normal’.