Insurance policy wording

[harvey38]

My insurance is due for renewal and has dropped again, quite possibly due to us not having a boating NCD due to a twelve year break. Anyway, reading through the wording of the policy there is one requirement that concerns me that states that I or another competent person should be aboard whilst underway, their definition of such is -

Competent person – A person with the necessary ability, knowledge and skill.

I have no formal ie certificates for boating and only about 12 hours at sea in the last year (disgraceful I know) but hundreds of inland hours. I'm able to operate the boat safely, I have knowledge of bouyage, tides and the skill to moor it stern to in the marina but it still seems vague. I do plan to call them but thought I'd ask on here as there is so much knowledge. Any thoughts as to what constitutes ability, knowledge and skill?

 

[tillergirl]

Give them a description of your overall experience and knowledge and in particular how much you have used the current boat. They will be happy. Reality is better than a certificate but of course certificates have value.

 

[Tranona]

Deliberately vague as there is no official standard required by law. The clause would be used in the event of an incident where the skipper was held to be to blame and then it would be a matter of judgement. such cases where this might be used are probably extremely rare because most claims are not for this type of situation and are clearly covered by other clauses which are not dependent of skipper skills.

However a good benchmark is the ICC which assesses competence in line with that insurers requirement. If you can meet those with the usual combination of experience and knowledge of the rules and a record of claim free boating then then you should feel reasonably comfortable.

 

[bedouin]

There is no definition because no single definition would be appropriate. What is competent for a day trip in sheltered waters might not be competent for longer passages in adverse weather.

I think the wording is more aimed at you lending the boat to someone else. If they are providing cover to you then that implies that they are happy that you are competent (unless you lied).

 

[Graham376]

Most policy applications ask for experience and are issued based on information submitted. If the wording is contained in the policy general terms rather than in an endorsement, I wouldn't worry.

 

[ylop]

If you don’t like the probably vague answer you get from your insurer take a look at Visicover - they ask a lot more questions than most insurers, but importantly if you say that someone other than you might be in charge they let you go through and define “your rules” as to who that might be (eg you might lend my boat to a 30 yr old Yachtmaster relative with 15 yrs experience and 20 days in the last 12 months but you wouldn’t lend it to a 21 yr old with a Dayskipper they got this year and a week on charter - so you say that and the price is set live in front of you. It means you aren’t paying for theoretical risks you never wanted but of course you need to remember the rules you set as they will have a get out clause if you don’t.

 

[Sandy]

When they get back to work give them a ring and ask for written confirmation of what they mean, and see what they say.

 

[peter gibbs]

My insurance is due for renewal and has dropped again, quite possibly due to us not having a boating NCD due to a twelve year break. Anyway, reading through the wording of the policy there is one requirement that concerns me that states that I or another competent person should be aboard whilst underway, their definition of such is -

Competent person – A person with the necessary ability, knowledge and skill.

I have no formal ie certificates for boating and only about 12 hours at sea in the last year (disgraceful I know) but hundreds of inland hours. I'm able to operate the boat safely, I have knowledge of bouyage, tides and the skill to moor it stern to in the marina but it still seems vague. I do plan to call them but thought I'd ask on here as there is so much knowledge. Any thoughts as to what constitutes ability, knowledge and skill?

Like most things in life, experience in handling the equipment and success rate (ie no claims) are key. You claim lots of boat handling experience on the one hand but little on open waters. Beyond insurance matters you would be well advised to take a fast course to acquire total awareness. Hours spent in an RYA classroom are pleasant but sapping of energy. Do an online course. Good for you and encouraging to the insurer that you take safety matters seriously. Put in some hours as crew with an experienced sailor and you're ready to go.

 

[ylop]

Beyond insurance matters you would be well advised to take a fast course to acquire total awareness. Hours spent in an RYA classroom are pleasant but sapping of energy. Do an online course.

everyone learns in different ways - personally I’m not sure that a theory course will make a big impact to insurance premium, sometimes reading a book with a specific question in mind or watching a few online tutorials can be just as useful.

Put in some hours as crew with an experienced sailor and you're ready to go.

or you’ll learn their bad habit or become overly confident that they did this without thinking so how hard can it be.

 

[Molteni]

[QUOTE="harvey38, post: 8046834, member: 31097"............................
Competent person – A person with the necessary ability, knowledge and skill...................................
[/QUOTE]
I would hope the word "ability" includes being both healthy and fit.

 

[Graham376]

I would hope the word "ability" includes being both healthy and fit.

That can change from one minute to the next. Guy on mooring adjacent to ours taken ashore in body bag a couple of nights ago, saw him the day before hauling his dinghy up appearing to be in good health.

 

[srm]

[QUOTE="harvey38, post: 8046834, member: 31097"............................
Competent person – A person with the necessary ability, knowledge and skill...................................

I would hope the word "ability" includes being both healthy and fit.
[/QUOTE]
Commercial endorsement for yachting certificates, and all commercial marine officers require periodic medical examination and certificate for issue and renewals.

 

[johnalison]

I don't think that the wording would ever be a problem in the normal way of things. I imagine that all they want to do is protect themselves from having to pay out if you lend the boat to your 14-yr old nephew and his 8-yr old sister to cross the Channel in.

 

[Daydream believer]

. I'm able to operate the boat safely, I have knowledge of bouyage, tides and the skill to moor it stern to in the marina

Not meaning to be disrespectful - But that is YOUR opinion. Has any suitably qualified body tested this to prove the point & the answer is "No"
So in the event of an accident ie MOB say. The question may be asked & the answer could be embarrassing in the least.
Perhaps you need to get it clarified.

 

[ChromeDome]

Ask them in writing, store the answer and keep a printed version onboard.

 

[awol]

There are some questions that should not be asked and I would put asking your insurance company to further define this clause as one of those. You obviously know enough to have concerns so the Kruger-Dunning effect does not apply. Pay your money and go sailing!

 

[harvey38]

I would hope the word "ability" includes being both healthy and fit.

Commercial endorsement for yachting certificates, and all commercial marine officers require periodic medical examination and certificate for issue and renewals.
[/QUOTE]
I think my Flight Instructor rating medical covers that part

 

[Graham376]

Only reference to health in my policy schedule is - you are physically capable of operating craft safely

 

[AntarcticPilot]

When I first insured Capricious, the insurance company asked about my experience. I described it (sailing since a young boy on my father's boats; a lifetime of mapping and charting!) and they were happy. Until recently I had no paper qualifications (I got an ICC a couple of years back).

 

[Cariadco]

A Competent Person, in the Power Station World and Electrical in general, was someone who had the Training, Skill, Knowledge and Experience to avoid Danger.
Having said that, Trainees were essentially recognised as not being Competent.